Rolling UK Comedy Thread - "Ricky Don't Lose Larry David's Number

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ha wikipedia gives us this info about Jam;

Genre - Ambient comedy

not quite prog then.

acrobat (elwisty), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 12:13 (seventeen years ago) link

Louis: would you rather a comedy was "intelligent" and mildly funny, or dumb and very funny?

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 12:15 (seventeen years ago) link

What the hell did anyone think putting people in an arts centre and getting them to react to Blue Jam sketches was going to achieve?

Feargal Hixxy (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 12:24 (seventeen years ago) link

A playback of BJ sketches at Caesar's in Streatham, preferably at about 11:30 pm on Saturday, might have produced more invigorating results.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 12:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Dom: Interesting question. Good comedy can provide more than just laughter, it can provide bitterweet and perhaps even deflating satirical observations upon the vagaries of existence, so I'd say even a mildly funny comedy that has a great emotional effect upon the viewer (see: Monkey Dust) has a great deal of worth. Of course, when you talk about 'dumb' comedy that's 'very funny', you're getting onto tricky ground. Surely for something to be 'very funny' and somehow not hackneyed, uninteresting or repetitive, it wouldn't be 'dumb' but very cleverly made. If by that you mean 'Airplane!' and others of that puerile (if insatiably hilarious) type, I'd have answered in 'dumb/very funny's' favour a few years ago, although now I'm really not so sure. Airplane! isn't that dumb anyway, not nearly as dumb as much British television nowadays.

the killfire konspiracy (Haberdager), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 12:42 (seventeen years ago) link

What the hell did anyone think putting people in an arts centre and getting them to react to Blue Jam sketches was going to achieve?

Er, some pleasure for the audience? Some gauge of how effective the material was for the creators? I dunno, why do anything ever? They were all on the floor on cushions in complete darkness, apparently. I imagine it was all rather awkward. Apart from the ubiquitous snogging couple.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 13:09 (seventeen years ago) link

well they'd only just met...

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 13:14 (seventeen years ago) link

and then she noticed he was in fact made out of gristle and JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMM

anyway... LJ's point kinda hold i think the comedy programs held in the most affection tend not to be simply 'cos of the roffles. there's also a gender thing. there's a certain generalization about the ladies liking lolz only as a side order to soapiness or "feeling good" friends or green wing tend to be produced as evidence. there's a real covert thread of that in c & b world. cf there thread on upcoming stand up josie long. theory is kinda bollocks cos loads of gurls like family guy which is like the most unemotional program ever.

back to the main point. the way LJ regards chris morris is kinda like the way "the nation" regards only fools and horses: a non comedic element has become, in talking about it at least, the chief reason for the cherishing of it. possibly.

acrobat (elwisty), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 13:45 (seventeen years ago) link

The division between 'dumb' and 'intelligent' comedy is hard to discern at times, though. Are 'Father Ted' and 'The Day Today' dumb? They certainly have plenty of dumb jokes in 'em.

Ruairi Wirewool (Ruairi Wirewool), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 13:46 (seventeen years ago) link

most good comedy operates on more than one level like that.

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 13:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, I used deliberately innacurate terminology because I kinda wanted to see what LJ's approach was.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 14:12 (seventeen years ago) link

so what is yr definition of straight up dumb comedy? "dirty sanchez"? dumb comedy that's really funny?

acrobat (elwisty), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 16:33 (seventeen years ago) link

straight up dumb (fictional) comedy = most conventional sitcoms (v thin on the ground now in the UK)

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 16:35 (seventeen years ago) link

the only thing i can think of that reasonably fits the bill is my hero. my family is quite knowing really and the writing is pretty tight.

acrobat (elwisty), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

If you're counting Family Guy as 'dumb comedy', it's dumb comedy that's smart enough to know how to get plenty of laughs. I'm not its biggest fan (I've since discovered Arrested Development and Peep Show which are smart on more or less every level, with the belly-laughs a comedy needs fitted as standard), but I do find it funny.

Father Ted and The Day Today use 'dumbness' in a manner that almost entirely removes the stupidity, because they do it with such unremitting poise.

the killfire konspiracy (Haberdager), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 17:49 (seventeen years ago) link

Linehan & Matthews wanted 'Father Ted' to be stupid though. And it is - there's a few arch jokes here and there, and subversions of sitcom tropes, but for the most part it's basic, silly comedy. And it's wonderful.

'Peep Show' is intelligent with regard to the subjects it handles, but I never notice the actual jokes being that esoteric.

Ruairi Wirewool (Ruairi Wirewool), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 18:14 (seventeen years ago) link

I love Father Ted as much as anyone, but I don't like it to be described as 'stupid' when it's been written so intelligently. Perhaps my definition of 'stupid' isn't quite the same as everyone else's. Would there be a better word we could use? 'Blunt-force comedy'?

the killfire konspiracy (Haberdager), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link

'Peep Show' is intelligent with regard to the subjects it handles, but I never notice the actual jokes being that esoteric.

joek

acrobat (elwisty), Wednesday, 17 January 2007 18:18 (seventeen years ago) link

It is stupid though! I don't mean that in a demeaning way, comedy can be very effective when it's stupid. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say it wasa written intelligently. I mean, we know Linehan & Matthews are very intelligent people, but Father Ted is plain daft. Plain daft with better jokes than any other sitcom of it's kind. Linehan himself has said that 'Stupid' is what they were aiming for.

Ruairi Wirewool (Ruairi Wirewool), Thursday, 18 January 2007 00:01 (seventeen years ago) link

example of Father Ted's edge over other 'trad' sitcoms: the set-up for Ted looking like Hitler when seen thru the window by the Chinese dude

that sort of thing just doesn't happen in yer standard sitcom

vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 18 January 2007 00:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Linehan himself has said that 'Stupid' is what they were aiming for.

he achieved this a lot better with The IT Crowd it would seem. i don't think he'd actually be capable of writing a 'stupid' Roy Clarke-esque sitcom.

vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 18 January 2007 00:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Hey, don't diss the Clarkester - he wrote Rosie, Potter and Open All Hours as well as the interminable pensioner-in-bathtub thing (which wasn't all that bad back in the early Brian Wilde days).

(I'll admit to having not seen either of the first two in 20+ years - they could be dross misremembered as understated gems with cracking performances).

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 18 January 2007 00:19 (seventeen years ago) link

Open All Hours perhaps over-rated as well?
(I loved it as a kid of course, obviously decent work from Barker but was there really much else going for it?)

vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 18 January 2007 00:22 (seventeen years ago) link

LOL moments from memory in 'blue jam' just to steer it away from the prog label:

- the doctor who has eleborate swearwords
- 'he killed the man'
- '--brackets--'
- rothko
- 'i work in the warm arts'
- 4ft car
- '...can't you just' (louis knows what i mean)
- the dance charts -- hackneyed but still funny

but also to repeat it was half a *music show*, and worked on those terms. think of it like steve wright in the wee hours or something.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 18 January 2007 11:10 (seventeen years ago) link

what's wrong with PROG?

WOEbat (elwisty), Thursday, 18 January 2007 11:50 (seventeen years ago) link

i have never heard any prog fwiw, but you know, shorthand.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 18 January 2007 11:51 (seventeen years ago) link

The dance charts were hilarious.
'In at 2, it's 'Fat Weeping Bitch' recorded in tribute to the Wu-Tang's GZA in case he was shot and released last week by accident.'
I remeber one track was called 'Manhattan Is My Wristwatch'. I have no idea why I find that funny.

Ruairi Wirewool (Ruairi Wirewool), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:12 (seventeen years ago) link

on one of the 1994 dance charts: 'there is no number nine.'

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:15 (seventeen years ago) link

'Techno News with Troy Wembley' on the NME 'funny' page did more or less the same thing slightly earlier. Maybe I was just at the right age but it made me cry with laughter on occasion

Feargal Hixxy (DJ Mencap), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:16 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah they always work. i think peter cook did one in the 70s?

putting me in mind of attractive women (Enrique), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Peter Cook Techno News yes please

vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link

the NME 'funny' page

Ah there was often comedy gold to be found there. Favourite ever was insults from Huey of the Fun Lovin' criminals:

You still pushing your jaw each way but westwards? You're raising my pressure quickstyle my friend, upside like a doped joker. i'm gonna cut you open so far you'll be up all night stitchin' your backpipe together just so you can start weepin'! You're gonna need eleven different kinds of treatment! You'll be tryin' to find ice till there's no more ice!

(from memory, tragically)

ledge (ledge), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:39 (seventeen years ago) link

i'm gonna cut you open so far you'll be up all night stitchin' your backpipe together just so you can start weepin'!

roffle all the way home . . .

Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:40 (seventeen years ago) link

a lot of 'select' funnies were by the 'father ted' graham wotsit.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 18 January 2007 12:41 (seventeen years ago) link

harry hill's tv burp back on saturday. wonder if he'll makes lolz about the CBB situation. tbh clips of jade et al then cutting back to harry doing the forehead slapping and "duh" noise would be funny enough.

acrobat (elwisty), Thursday, 18 January 2007 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link

From the NME funnies:
Two weeks after R Kelly's 'I Believe I Can Fly', Boyz II Men release 'Airborne Self-Propulsion Is A Myth' in protest.

Ruairi Wirewool (Ruairi Wirewool), Thursday, 18 January 2007 13:46 (seventeen years ago) link

I want to form a band called 'The Current Size Of India' and release a single called 'Putting Me In Mind of Attractive Women' because of those dance charts.

Enrique's list is good, and contains (just about) two of my top-3 BJ moments...

3) Series 1 Episode 4, 25:10. The sprightly, uptempo groove accompanying Michael Alexander St.John's dance countdown suddenly morphs (in the radio equivalent of bone-spaceship in 2001:ASO) seamlessly into Lennon's '#9 Dream'.

2) Series 2 Episode 4, 27:59. The Rothko monologue ends. Accompanied by the melancholic, chilled middle-eight of Madonna's 'Ray Of Light', although you don't know that at this stage. As the monologue ends, the building, throbbing intro to the actual song bounces into gear, and as the last word is spoken, Madonna's heavenly voice takes up the baton. As a moment of sadness into happiness it is unparalleled.

1) Series 2, Episode 1, 34:18.

"Well, we'll just have to get used to it being just the two of us again."

"Mmmmmmm..."

unmixed by DJ Mrs. Clark of Egham (Haberdager), Thursday, 18 January 2007 14:41 (seventeen years ago) link

louis, i'm reaching out here but what are you on with this "Madonna's heavenly voice" bullcrap!? it *is* a seminal moment i grant yer, but that song would have been better if orbit had got like... nathalie from the all saints to sing on it ffs!

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 18 January 2007 15:23 (seventeen years ago) link

nah

vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 18 January 2007 15:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Not heavenly in the context of singers, but with all the effects thrown onto it by Orbit it genuinely sounds as if it's being beamed down from somewhere up in the sky (well, it does to me at any rate), especially coming after Morris' hangdog deadpan drawl. You have a point, though, and I should probably have phrased it better.

balling fart-ravine (Haberdager), Thursday, 18 January 2007 15:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i think the loop makes me think 'wouldn't it be nice if this was ALL instrumental'. but on the other hand it is one of madonna's less terrible vocal performances.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Thursday, 18 January 2007 15:42 (seventeen years ago) link

question: could little britain have happened, in the sense of all the "un PC" gags, without morris legitimizing bad taste humour for the mark lawsons of this world?

acrobat (elwisty), Friday, 19 January 2007 02:53 (seventeen years ago) link

We already had PLENTY of un-PC gags. Morris' weren't so much un-PC as satirical of political correctness, entirely self-aware and wittily subversive. Little Britain (which I only find offensive in terms of its simpering, lovvie awfulness and its appalling fanbase) took its cue from things like the League Of Gentlemen and the Fast Show (both infinitely better I hasten to add), which in turn originated in, I dunno, schlocky 80's horror (I really don't know, someone should clear this one up for me). To even bracket Morris with LB gives me the shudders, for were Walliams and Lucas to have actually watched and appreciated a single work of Morris, I'm sure their 'comedy' would be roughly seventeen times as funny as it currently is.

Bear in mind that I probably hate LB more than almost every single other person on earth, so I am speaking with an element of bias, but frankly, to blame CM for them is I think ridiculous.

to scour or to pop? (Haberdager), Friday, 19 January 2007 02:59 (seventeen years ago) link

yes but "self-aware and wittily subversive" is the defense used for little britian. it's that way of thinking and talking about comedy thats lets us have such delights as ting tong macadacadingdong on bbc1. possibly.

acrobat (elwisty), Friday, 19 January 2007 03:08 (seventeen years ago) link

I gree LB could not have happened without certain grey areas being legitimized by Chris Morris, but then could the Suomi ethnic cleansing programme in Sweden have happened without Charles Darwin?

Pete (Pete), Friday, 19 January 2007 09:18 (seventeen years ago) link

jagger is otm re little britain's antecedents. something like 'nighty night' is more directly morris-y. but anyway it's not morris's fault what people take from him (and it's not like he was in a bubble or 100% original, and he had very talented collaborators...).

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Friday, 19 January 2007 09:26 (seventeen years ago) link

> jagger is otm re little britain's antecedents.

citation required.

there's a dvd extra on the LB dvds that is them talking about their influences but sadly(!) i haven't seen it. i have them down more as Dick Emery copyists.

My Koogy Weighs A Ton (koogs), Friday, 19 January 2007 10:32 (seventeen years ago) link

'Little Britain [...] took its cue from things like the League Of Gentlemen and the Fast Show'1

1 Jagger, Louis, posted at Rolling UK Comedy Thread - "Ricky Don't Lose Larry David's Number, 19 January 2007

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Friday, 19 January 2007 10:37 (seventeen years ago) link

yeh but dick emery didn't have people proclaiming his work as satirical genius and i'm pretty sure he didn't have people puking after eating food cooked by asians. hey if you put some late nineties warp shit behind that and got julia davis and kevin eldon to act it...

acrobat (elwisty), Friday, 19 January 2007 11:01 (seventeen years ago) link

Little Britain's Tom Baker narrations are probably inspired by the similarly styled intro narrations from The Smell Of Reeves & Mortimer (Lucas having risen up thru ranks via them).

vita susicivus (blueski), Friday, 19 January 2007 11:03 (seventeen years ago) link


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