Batman carries on beginning in ... The Dark Knight

batman + submarine lols: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_igqZWsNgwg

this movie sort of diminishes every time i think about it... i wish i could just go and see the IMAX segments again.

Jesus Christ, took me a day and a half of half-ass reading to get through this thread.

To draw quickly and haphazardly, if you'll forgive me (especially forgive me for reviving the Batman/Bush discussion now three weeks old or something):

Joker pushes Batman to the limits of his rules, and by the end of the film has forced Bats to break his rules. He doesn't exactly do it reluctantly, but when it's over he's remorseful and recognizes that he's done something wrong. He judges himself (why else effectively hold himself accountable by having the police hunt him?), Nolan judges him, and I think the audience is expected to judge him as well.

In other words: this is not a vindication of the means Batman/Bushco pursues. It's a repudiation. At best, as was said so astutely upthread, it's a sympathetic critique. Batman makes the wrong decision (and he deserves to be held to account) but there may not be a right one.

i honestly don't think this film's ideas are worth taking seriously or contemplating more than 45 minutes after the film ends....

seeing this tonight

I left the cinema just under 45 minutes ago, so there's still time:
1. war-on-terror is all the way through this like Brighton Rock. So much so that at times I forget I'm watching Batman, and think I'm watching live waterboarding. I wish films wouldn't be so heavy-handed about this kind of thing, and leave a bit of space for the ambiguities to fester
2. while we're at it, I don't want Batman's accomplices expressing horror at what he can do with his fancy cellphone gadget - they're working for *Batman*, for goodness' sake
3. I liked the look of it, but other than the chase (which otherwise I found a bit all-over-the-place) it wasn't as dark-looking as I'd hoped. I like my Gotham gothic
4. I really like the way they call him 'The Batman'
5. Heath Ledger is absolutely terrific in this. I love it when you can't tell who the actor is. Doesn't happen often, but this was one of those, like Brando in the Godfather

i enjoyed this, i agree above it's nowhere near as 'dark' as people are telling me. Our version of 'dark' might be blacker than some though i guess.

the pencil thing was better than i thought it would be.

haha i wish i hadn't known about the submarine thing, can't be sure if i would have got it or not.

This was all about joker wasn't it, not much 'batman' excitement going on really.

i didn't notice any war-on-terror, all i could see was a cool batman/joker yarn.

You didn't think "war-on-terror" when Morgan Freeman was telling Batman that his fancy pants sonar tracking system was an invasion of civil liberties?

I haven't read the thread to see what people are saying, but my goodness this movie was SO long. I liked the music, I think. And all the British people.

That's what everyone who didn't like it said (too long, terrible final third, etc.)

You didn't think "war-on-terror" when Morgan Freeman was telling Batman that his fancy pants sonar tracking system was an invasion of civil liberties?

not at all

Don't follow current events much do ya?

i apologise for not thinking the same way you do.

I thought about CCTV and war-on-chavs more than war on terror. But I'm British. Oh, like the director. And many of the principle cast. The ones who aren't Australian.

I was thinking more about GTA4 when Bruce was driving his lambo underneath the subway tracks, i guess it's down to what's on your mind at the time.

http://radioactiveliberty.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/nasrallah-death-to-america.jpg

sorry I meant to post that on the Chicago: The 10.25 Percenters thread

nah, it works.

This was 2/3s of a good movie (much better than B-Man Begins) and then stupid Two Face plot happens and then its completely cliche and awful for the last 45 or so minutes.

-- Alex in SF, Monday, 4 August 2008 19:12 (4 days ago) Link

still completely agree with this outlook- i'm not really interested in a director's 'vision' for the political insights his movies provides, i want to know if he made an entertaining, involving movie that didn't make me groan at any stage. the last 45 mins of this was all groan, all the time.

i enjoyed this, i agree above it's nowhere near as 'dark' as people are telling me. Our version of 'dark' might be blacker than some though i guess.

yeah the film takes pains to honor the integrity of the joker's 'mission' as it were, partly by downplaying the sadism of his acts as much as it could (i didn't find the two boats thing as compelling as it should have been) i like that you could see the superpower of "planning shit" come to life, what a creation. the dent stuff totally swamped this movie the more that i think about it. still good.

i saw this again (my excuse was that two friends had not seen it at all, and it was the final night it was playing in IMAX) and... it didn't seem better or worse than the first time. the narrative still started to fray into near-incoherence by the last act, the "ideas" embodied in the various speeches in said act still seemed ridiculous to me... but the IMAX segments were still stunning, the whole thing was pretty gripping, etc. etc. i liked it again. i was worried i would be bored, but i wasn't. probably will never see it again though.

EVERY MOVIE SHOULD BE SHOT IN 65MM. and projected that way. ah, a utopian dream.

i enjoyed this, i agree above it's nowhere near as 'dark' as people are telling me. Our version of 'dark' might be blacker than some though i guess.

it's not the darkest movie ever made, but my commments were made within the context of tdk a) being a summer hollywood blockbuster, b) in the wish-fulfillment superhero genre, and c) having a strong chance of becoming the second highest grossing film ever. I don't think anyone's saying it's going to give audition or threads or straw dogs a run for their money, but for a film with huge general audience appeal it's pretty bleak and sadistic.

awesome batman moment = near the start, where he lands on top of the van from spiral car park.

I don't think anyone's saying it's going to give audition or threads or straw dogs a run for their money, but for a film with huge general audience appeal it's pretty bleak and sadistic.

After finishing The Stone Killer (1973), Charles Bronson and 'Michael Winner' wanted to make another film together, and were discussing further projects. "What shall we do next?" asked Bronson. "The best script I've got is Death Wish. It's about a man whose wife and daughter are mugged and he goes out and shoots muggers," said Winner. "I'd like to do that," Bronson said. "The film?" asked Winner. Bronson replied, "No... shoot muggers."

don't think tdk is as brutal as death wish (bronson's daughter gets her ass spraypainted in that, wow 70s reality u are harsh) but it's offset in tdk because the vigilante figure is impotent and criminals call the shots for nearly the entire length of the movie.

Every time I start thinking I'm an over-analytical freakshow incapable of enjoying life, I read an ILE film thread and end up feeling a lot better about myself.

"over-analytical"

fuck you.

http://workstreaminc.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/09/19/analyze_this.jpg

btw i think this film's combo of interesting plotting that falls apart in the last act, exciting action, and alternately compelling and completely half-baked psychologizing is a pretty accurate recreation of a batman comic ca. 1970s/1980s (stopped reading them around 1990, so maybe it's been the same). that's not a criticism or a complaint.

New York's most powerful gangster is about to get in touch with his feelings.
YOU try telling him his 50 minutes are up.
and Lisa Kudrow.

HI DERE, if you have a problem with one or other piece of analysis, speak your peace. but be aware that analyzing (otherwise known as "discussing") movies is fun, a way of savouring the experience of the movie. it's not anathema to pleasure.

RIP xp

HI DERE, if you have a problem with one or other piece of analysis, speak your peace. but be aware that analyzing (otherwise known as "discussing") movies is fun, a way of savouring the experience of the movie. it's not anathema to pleasure.

-- amateurist, Friday, August 8, 2008 10:35 PM (43 seconds ago) Bookmark Link

I think he engaged pretty effectively upthread!

sorry, there are sections of the thread i haven't read

My post was specifically spurred by darraghmac's "there is no point to discussing this movie" post, which I found fatuous and unthinking. It made me feel like I wasn't being as fatuous and overthinking as I was afraid I was being.

I do have the impression that people who out-and-out HATED this movie have sensibilities so different from mine that I might was well consider them to be chihuahuas in human form, though.

also lol at amateurist getting mad at me calling myself "over-analytical"

i misread -- i thought you were accusing others of being over-analytical. i'm really sorry.

p.s. http://images.bestwebbuys.com/muze/books/21/9780740706721.jpg

http://dachshundsdressedforshow.com/images/dog-dress-dog-harness-dog-clothes-TinkerDress.jpg

Watched Batman Begins again last night. Good. Not as good as this, though.

The Dark Knight or the Ebert/chihuahua "feud"?

Both. Wasn't it the chihuahua that bit Batman's arm?

Also, say chihuahua phonetically, as loud as you can. I dare you.

i watched Silent Night, Deadly Night last night. omfg

I find people who say "There's nothing to discuss here" a thousand times more tolerable than those who go "WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THIGNS ITS A MOVIE SHUT UP"

Like "I've parsed the ideas here and think they're not worth talking about" is way more interesting to me than "Y U RUIN IT WITH YOUR ANALYZING"

Oh come on. That complaint came up because people were whining that this movie was nonstop Bush apologia, which I personally think is such nonsense that it makes think the people saying it are dumber than I know they are.

after 300 I think a lot of people are now actively seeking out these Bush motifs.

whereas they were warranted there

yeah, it is nonsense. film is incoherent, partly deliberately (in the way that all blockbusters have a degree of incoherence) and partly out of intellectual cowardice and confusion.