Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

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In any event, I never noticed any homophobia myself -- it was more like a sense of joking around with various social conventions of homosexuality (for instance, the concluding sketch of The Human Duplicators where Crow and Tom finally confess that they are robots, to Joel's lack of surprise [Tom: "But how did you know?" Joel: "It's MORE than a little obvious." -- which was almost exactly the conversation I had with a gay friend of mine who came out of the closet shortly before I starting watching the show!]).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:42 (twenty years ago) link

Right, exactly -- that sort of thing (along with the way they teased out the lines in Frank and Forrester's relationship) made me think there was someone clued-in and sensitive. I can't really think of any offensive homophobic jokes.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:46 (twenty years ago) link

It goes back indirectly to the point I made at the start of this thread -- the crew there had a total loathing for bullshit, and that surely includes homophobia. And given that a good number of the performers are religious (Mike and Bridget are Christian, Kevin was raised Christian and has been a Buddhist for many years, Joel is religious as well though I don't recall his specific beliefs), it's all the more wonderful and appropriate.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:49 (twenty years ago) link

are you guys serious? i love MST as much as anybody but making an emasculated, lisping gay caricature of any 'weak' charecter (the lab assistant in this island earth, for one example of many) usually seemed to take up half their jokes in any given episode

― diamond princess, Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:52 (twenty years ago) link

My sense of the jokes about that character was mostly because of his weenieness, surely.

(Oh, hi there Mr. Trife!)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:57 (twenty years ago) link

Trina, it's certainly there but I think you're overstating its frequency. Well, yeah.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:58 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, MST3K successful navigated the straits between "pansy" and "gay".

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 11 January 2004 17:59 (twenty years ago) link

Also, in a number of cases they were clearly dealing with characters portrayed by the *films* as emasculated gay caricatures, etc. Thus for instance Mr. "I'm a Virgin" in The Pod People.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:00 (twenty years ago) link

Like I say above there were a few things that bugged me, like the lesbian jokes in Racket Girls (none of them were offensive in of themselves, but gawd, so many) and a few lines I can think of here and there but it's nothing I dwell on. Even Buffy is more troubling for crying out tears.

BTW, "fembot" and "space swish" are my most favorite catty insults EVER.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:03 (twenty years ago) link

Chris, do you have any idea how much I love/loathe the term "snack cake" ?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:05 (twenty years ago) link

SNNNACK. CHHAKE.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:06 (twenty years ago) link

No, I can honestly say that I had no idea that your emotions were so conflicted over this phrase.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:07 (twenty years ago) link

More evidence.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:09 (twenty years ago) link

The power of a Ding Dong. A Twinkie. God, snack cakes are rife with sensuality!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:12 (twenty years ago) link

Maple Creme Pies. Donut Sticks. Honey Buns. Banana Twins Cakes. Frosted Fudge Cakes. Cherry Cordials. Easter Brownies. Pumpkin Delights® Filled Cookies. Jelly Creme Pies.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:18 (twenty years ago) link

My bf has a strange hatred of the word "nosh", you guys should hang out, you'd never be able to eat anything between meals.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:20 (twenty years ago) link

I think Mike should visit Portland in late May like I am, then there would be fun. And we could all go to Powell's.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:22 (twenty years ago) link

Ned is coming to Portland solely for my KTMA episodes.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:30 (twenty years ago) link

Why sure!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:31 (twenty years ago) link

Meanwhile, in a bit of happy news, all the MST3K content from the scifi.com website, including all the show descriptions from the various staff members, will be moving over to Satellite News in February. Woo!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:34 (twenty years ago) link

To address the initial question... The show itself: classic. The legions of dorks who subsequently thought they were hip and clever for quipping during movies: dud.

― Prude (Prude), Sunday, 11 January 2004 18:44 (twenty years ago) link

"Good? He'th the BETHT!"

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 11 January 2004 19:00 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, that was a slam on the dorkiness of the film's stereotypical gay character, not a reflection of homophobia on the part of any of MST3K's creators. The only peeve I have is the sometimes too-obvious pointing-out of whenever two males are in even remotely close proximity of each other, usually accompanied by exaggerated scoffing by the 'bots.

I think Servo was, um... that word I no longer use but everyone applied to David Beckham... long before we coined the term. Don't know if that means Kevin Murphy was this rumored "gay one" on the staff. I remember way back when how Joel's sexuality came into question occasionally. In any case, I usually got the vibe that they were more riffing on people's fear of homosexuality than slamming gayness itself.

Still, even San Francisco International has that out-of-the-blue "Well, hell-O, I just have to sah-shay across the airport, I'll be back, bye!"

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:34 (twenty years ago) link

Don't know if that means Kevin Murphy was this rumored "gay one" on the staff.

As he's married as well, that would be an interesting situation.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:35 (twenty years ago) link

... Mike?

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:36 (twenty years ago) link

haha, Eric, I just really wanted to quote Pod People (the worst I'd accuse Mst of is painfully unfunny evils once Trace and Frank left). Cuz if "Hear The Engines Roll Now" got any more soul they would have had to order out for greens.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:37 (twenty years ago) link

... Mike?

...is married to Bridget Jones.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:38 (twenty years ago) link

Cuz if "Hear The Engines Roll Now" got any more soul they would have had to order out for greens.

I absolutely loved it when Bob Fingerman quoted a hunk of the song in an issue of Minimum Wage. Beautiful stuff.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:39 (twenty years ago) link

I know... actually I think no one on the staff is gay, even Mary Jo. Just remarkably cool.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:40 (twenty years ago) link

"It STINKS."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:41 (twenty years ago) link

"Morrissey songs on the radio!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:41 (twenty years ago) link

"...what is this, white reggae?"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:41 (twenty years ago) link

She'll be yours, mind, soul and BODY.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:42 (twenty years ago) link

Trumpy, you can do STUPID things!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:43 (twenty years ago) link

he died as he lived, with his mouth wide open.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:44 (twenty years ago) link

And of course what I believe was the first appearance of that well-used word:

"HUZZAH!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:47 (twenty years ago) link

woah, I can't believe I've been thinking about all the crazy crap in that film but I forgot all about "HUZZAH!"

I did not forget the image of man exploring his territory however.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:50 (twenty years ago) link

Making fun of the Renaissance Festival = classic. Many drama students I knew worked there and, um... tended to take their character home with them too often.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 12 January 2004 02:51 (twenty years ago) link

ARGH. I feel your pain, Eric -- my hatred for SCA/RenFesters resulted from having two roommates in UCLA days who were addicts. At first I sorta thought it was charming. Near the end, despite my open and happy addiction to Tolkien remaining strong, I realized when charming became something wrong and to be avoided. And ever since then, I have.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:03 (twenty years ago) link

Heh, meanwhile, here's a treasure of a remark on Space Munity from one of the user comments:

Still it was better than Pitch Black.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:07 (twenty years ago) link

having watched Mitchell again recently, I think the greatest line ever is now "Word on the street is that you're a jerk."

― M Matos (M Matos), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:14 (twenty years ago) link

Just pondering Coleman Francis, who gives Ed Wood a run I'm sure for having a moderately interesting vision (in Francis' case, masculinity and a sort of clueless nod to Hawksian group dynamics) and repeatedly shooting himself in the foot.

"Flag on the moon, how'd it get there?" is just as paradoxically telling and dunderheaded as "The horror. The horror."

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:16 (twenty years ago) link

(MITCHELL x-post)

"Oh a spot in the shade!" (*crash*) "oop!"

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:16 (twenty years ago) link

"I got soap, I got dog poopie!"

Don't get me started on the Coleman Francis films.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:41 (twenty years ago) link

"Why is it that all the men I meet are married, gay, or being strangled by a giant octopus?"

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:45 (twenty years ago) link

"The director's vision: lots of shots of things."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 03:46 (twenty years ago) link

"That squares my breasts!"

― nate detritus (natedetritus), Monday, 12 January 2004 04:03 (twenty years ago) link

Such a good line you've said it twice!

"That squares my breasts!"

-- Nate Patrin (natepatrin550...), May 25th, 2003.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 12 January 2004 04:09 (twenty years ago) link

"you know, as an actor, merlon olsen really hadn't found his instrument yet."

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 January 2004 04:14 (twenty years ago) link

"we're going to control the ghetto you and i, young man."

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 12 January 2004 04:15 (twenty years ago) link

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