an open letter to the mods from Whiney G. Weingarten

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But the "us vs them" is totally overexaggerated, it's like 15 posters maximum who get involved in this sort of mod-bashing and because they shout loudly and get involved in 500-post clusterfucks they convince themselves there's a major problem, when actually there isn't.

'No permanent mods' is very harsh on mods like Abbott and Ned and WmC who generally just clear up things on request and don't get directly involved in these sort of things. Also rotating mods would see you pretty soon run out of people who both want to mod and are trusted by the coders to actually do so.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:16 (eleven years ago) link

k3vin, i honestly think you are really overstepping the line here, and have been for about a week since the explosion re: finest display names getting moved. the way yer arguing this all is super counterproductive because it keeps returning to the personal and then hackles get obv raised etc, so maybe take it down a notch, huh?

O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:18 (eleven years ago) link

The funny thing is that I still don't know what k3vin k. wants to happen/be done. Dan already said the "dumbass" thing was a mistake. What do you want, Jimmy Swaggart style tears?

Unfrozen Caveman Board-Lawyer (WmC), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:21 (eleven years ago) link

If "spend more time being civil than uncivil to other posters" is too much for you to bear, don't post here.

― lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:45 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

whuuuuuuuut?

that excludes most of the board's a-list, past and present

― rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:49 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I have never minded Whiney, but I really hate this sort of attitude. So someone like D0m P was, in your opinion, a more worthy poster than, say, Ned, or nabisco, or Abbs, or... well, pretty much the majority of posters here? Ilx, regardless of what you might think, is best when it's not full of snark or zing culture.

emil.y, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:21 (eleven years ago) link

I do love how people nominations for mod are "let's have a mod who would never ban an awesome bro no matter what he said" -- great look, that

― honkin' on joey kramer (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, November 4, 2010 11:39 AM (33 minutes ago) Bookmark

there's a guy in RI who runs for lieutenant governor and his sole position is "abolish the lieutenant governor post", I vote for him every time

bowlin' wolf (Edward III), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:23 (eleven years ago) link

I gotta say obv dan can do whatever he wants but the chances of anyone getting elected as new mod out of this clusterfuck is like 0%. no offense to some dude, but 10 hyped up peeps snapping at each other (myself included in that number btw) isnt the best way to find out who works as a site wide mod.

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, November 4, 2010 12:09 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah i agree with this

some dude, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:30 (eleven years ago) link

when posters like k3v who generally play nice and don't argue a lot become combative about mod action, it's seen as "man, you're really losing your way, you used to be such a good kid." that's an interesting interpretation imo.

some dude, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:32 (eleven years ago) link

when the assholes stand up to the mods, they're assholes. when the nice guys stand up to the mods, they're taking things too seriously and need to take it down a notch. that's why we get the "paternalistic" vibe, guys.

some dude, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:33 (eleven years ago) link

I don't even care, man, I was tired of hearing that I personally was #1 fan of rape jokes and could not get enough of them.

― 17th Century Catholic Spain (Abbbottt), Thursday, November 4, 2010 12:00 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Like having to hear that, multiple days in a row, in all-caps...it was a bullshit argument and pretty mean too, imo.

― 17th Century Catholic Spain (Abbbottt), Thursday, November 4, 2010 12:01 PM (29 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

most productive fucking thing that's been said all day

call all destroyer, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:34 (eleven years ago) link

I'm still pretty upset about it! I didn't know what to say because I couldn't trust myself to not get really emotional about it though : /

17th Century Catholic Spain (Abbbottt), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:34 (eleven years ago) link

Just this one thing, anything else it's ducks off my back, you know?

17th Century Catholic Spain (Abbbottt), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:35 (eleven years ago) link

Lol darra taken for a brit. Did the heroes of '16 die for nothing?

Truther Vandross (jim in glasgow), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:35 (eleven years ago) link

yeah some dude thats not what i am saying at all so i think yer making the interpretation here not me

O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:36 (eleven years ago) link

when the assholes stand up to the mods, they're assholes. when the nice guys stand up to the mods, they're taking things too seriously and need to take it down a notch. that's why we get the "paternalistic" vibe, guys.

feel for u abbott but also agree with this ^

I def got that feeling when I was unhappy w/ the way the sb system was designed

bowlin' wolf (Edward III), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:39 (eleven years ago) link

but maybe I shouldn't dig up old graves

bowlin' wolf (Edward III), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:39 (eleven years ago) link

btw if hi dere is no longer a mod, be prepared for even less transparency into mod decisions.

and that's not a snipe at the other mods, but ime he is usually the first one out there taking shit from the rest of us.

call all destroyer, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:41 (eleven years ago) link

when posters like k3v who generally play nice and don't argue a lot become combative about mod action, it's seen as "man, you're really losing your way, you used to be such a good kid." that's an interesting interpretation imo.

Okay two things:

- I have no real issue with K3v but come on he's always been a pretty fractious poster.
- The reason the mods find arguments like this exasperating is because you insist on making the argument in such a loaded way and this is a case in point.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:42 (eleven years ago) link

kev k is persistently needlessly antagonistic and wilfully dense in these threads. Nobody said 'u used b such a nice boy' lots of ppl said 'stfu ur full of it'.

That's not paternalism, that's callin a dude (who yeah is normally a good poster) on the same bullshit in every similar thread.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:42 (eleven years ago) link

I mean, maybe tell us WHAT, IF ANYTHING, YOU ACTUALLY WANT DONE and maybe then some sort of a decision can be made as and when everyone's calmed down.

If you're just saying "we'd like the mods to stop banning people in the heat of the moment" then yes I think everyone's agreed on that. I personally veer very strongly towards yellow carding and warning people first and then going ahead with the ban if they ignore that, but that's a personal view.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:44 (eleven years ago) link

i think moderation should be very much up to the individual churchgoer

caek, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:46 (eleven years ago) link

I love lessons learned

bowlin' wolf (Edward III), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:48 (eleven years ago) link

this is just a suggestion, no agenda, but i think whiney should be permabanned but encouraged to frequently submit open letters to the mods to be published here.

Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:48 (eleven years ago) link

man dont bring 'the church' into this

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:48 (eleven years ago) link

xp: ha

lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:48 (eleven years ago) link

eventually to be collected into a handsomely bound volume

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:51 (eleven years ago) link

what about a handsomely bound whiney g. whinegarten?

What if mod was one of us? (kkvgz), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:53 (eleven years ago) link

dmac i'm sorry i called you british

i don't think my point that it's unfair how dan gets a mod pass for comparably frowned-upon behavior while whiney gets banned is particularly unreasonable tho. i washalf-trolling too which was my fault. that is all

wakafledia (k3vin k.), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:56 (eleven years ago) link

k3v has "always been a fractious poster"? maybe it's just cause i don't read the politics threads much or wherever he starts shit, to me he's like the least controversial autogoon/77 dude.

some dude, Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:56 (eleven years ago) link

top of the mornin kev, i respect ur passion even if shit gets heated

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:57 (eleven years ago) link

(new postin style is to always make up with ppl online before five pm)

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 16:59 (eleven years ago) link

dan decided that because he's a mod he got to have two or three SB's for the one time whiney pissed him off instead of one SB like everyone else on the site.

k3vin, did this happen or was this you half-trolling?

嬰ハ長調 (c sharp major), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:00 (eleven years ago) link

i don't read the politics threads much

ha yeah maybe this is key

tho i expect feuding with deej is sort of subject-agnostic

Mannsplain Steamroller (goole), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:01 (eleven years ago) link

If you're just saying "we'd like the mods to stop banning people in the heat of the moment" then yes I think everyone's agreed on that. I personally veer very strongly towards yellow carding and warning people first and then going ahead with the ban if they ignore that, but that's a personal view.

i think this is what i want done

call all destroyer, Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:01 (eleven years ago) link

btw i will cop to being both "nice guy" and "recalcitrant" depending on the type of thread i'm on, but i appreciate the backup some d and agree with your point and basically everything you've said itt

my new favorite mod

wakafledia (k3vin k.), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:02 (eleven years ago) link

abbott otm

omar little, Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:06 (eleven years ago) link

k3v, still would like to know what, if anything, you want done.

Unfrozen Caveman Board-Lawyer (WmC), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:13 (eleven years ago) link

He already got what he wanted, namely me quitting as a mod.

lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:16 (eleven years ago) link

Dan, goddamnit, don't quit as mod.

What if mod was one of us? (kkvgz), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:20 (eleven years ago) link

Why shouldn't I?

lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:21 (eleven years ago) link

I mean, who in their right mind would put up with this unmitigated bullshit indefinitely?

lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:21 (eleven years ago) link

take a day or two off and think about it

call all destroyer, Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:21 (eleven years ago) link

i vote for dan staying

omar little, Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:22 (eleven years ago) link

subtle dig at jj imo

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:23 (eleven years ago) link

seriously, dude--shit got heated today and that's the worst time to make any decision.

if you came back tomorrow and said "yeah, i'm definitely done" it would make a lot more sense imo

call all destroyer, Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:23 (eleven years ago) link

If you're just saying "we'd like the mods to stop banning people in the heat of the moment" then yes I think everyone's agreed on that. I personally veer very strongly towards yellow carding and warning people first and then going ahead with the ban if they ignore that, but that's a personal view.

If we're still pretending like the suggest ban system has some kind of corrective effect on poster's behaviour whereby we're supposed to "learn something" from it (because trust me, from experience, it does not function that way, it just tends to make one more defensive and paranoid) rather than the crude popularity contest it actually functions as, then perhaps it would actually make more sense to have an automatic yellow card which tells you, privately, when you are approaching the 51 limit? (and maybe give you some clue what you're getting hit for? Like what post, what thread has acrued the most bans?)

Because my personal experience is that mod bans *do* have a behavioural effect (mainly because you are *told* what you are being banned for; and because the ban is effective immediately, the punishment is actually linked to the negative behaviour in a Pavolovian sense, rather than just being inflicted - seemingly randomly - hours, days or even months after the mysterious "thing" you are supposed to be being punished for, which is how SB functions.)

And Suggest Bans, as they function now, do not; in fact they actively functioned to make me *more* defensive, more prone to meta and sniping and thinking "I'm being persecuted for having unpopular *opinions*".

Anyway, that's my new rule of "no meta" broken already, but honestly, if you want to have some discussion of how banning is supposed to work as a "reforming" tactic you might actually bother asking the repeat offenders if it works like you think it does - and the answer is, it fucking well doesn't, for all the reasons above.

Masonic Boom, Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:23 (eleven years ago) link

Why shouldn't I?

Because I'm imagining you being all goth about it right now.

What if mod was one of us? (kkvgz), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:25 (eleven years ago) link

automatic yellow card which tells you, privately, when you are approaching the 51 limit?

This is an EXTREMELY sensible suggestion, in my opinion.

What if mod was one of us? (kkvgz), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:26 (eleven years ago) link

"you have 8 SBs to comply"

omar little, Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:26 (eleven years ago) link

lol

What if mod was one of us? (kkvgz), Thursday, 4 November 2010 17:26 (eleven years ago) link


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