an open letter to the mods from Whiney G. Weingarten

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like, just in terms of accountability/transparency

kkvgz, Thursday, 4 November 2010 10:33 (ten years ago) link

Haha that would prove so, so divisive.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 10:39 (ten years ago) link

finite no of sb's a poster can give in 6 month rolling term imo.

Noodle vague's gonna sb me for that

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 10:57 (ten years ago) link

People taking the fact that hi dere and I have known each other for a billion years and turning it into evidence #1 for how we are rogue mod cop buddies watching each others back can stfu IMO. Shit is getting old.

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, November 4, 2010 12:25 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

The fact that peeps still invoke tombot in these threads like you are survivors of some despotic Internet police state is totally fucking pathetic as well btw.

― O_o-O_0-o_O (jjjusten), Thursday, November 4, 2010 12:53 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

on one level I do understand where you're coming from and I do feel sorry for kind of putting you in a possibly unfair light in posts. but on another level, it feels like you're trying to embarrass people out of criticizing you, which, y'know, doesn't do you any favors in a discussion about whether mods are bullies.

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:17 (ten years ago) link

some dude on the fucking money

wakafledia (k3vin k.), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:17 (ten years ago) link

it'd be nice btw if every fucking visible mod didn't post from the same slumber party

― avoyoungdro's number (k3vin k.), Friday, October 29, 2010 12:54 AM (6 days ago)

wakafledia (k3vin k.), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:18 (ten years ago) link

on one level I do understand where you're coming from and I do feel sorry for kind of putting you in a possibly unfair light in posts. but on another level, it feels like you're trying to embarrass people out of criticizing you, which, y'know, doesn't do you any favors in a discussion about whether mods are bullies.

I'm not sure attempting to cast Whiney as a victim of bullying is going to work either dude.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:20 (ten years ago) link

i see where i called Whiney a "gaping asshole," but you'll have to point out where I called him a victim.

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:23 (ten years ago) link

2. if you dont want people to give you shit re being a mod, just dont be a mod, easy

― ice cr?m, Thursday, November 4, 2010 1:15 AM (7 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this should seriously be emblazoned on a plaque at the top of the front door of ilx city hall. I'm sorry, but if you guys want to be able to tell us when we're misbehaving and penalize us when we don't without being constantly criticized or questioned, you have to at least SEEM like you're more mature and thick-skinned than the rest of us.

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:23 (ten years ago) link

yeah nobody should be able to do that job, and if someone has to they certainly should be drafted in from another website or recruited or whatever as opposed to being y'know, good posters and good dudes.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:31 (ten years ago) link

i'm not asking mods to be saints, i'm just saying if they don't think they're making decisions out of anger or petty beefs they should maybe work harder and making it look like they're not.

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:33 (ten years ago) link

cos just sayin, any time dp, jj or mattdc ever felt the need to pull mod shit on me, i took a good long look first before deciding my internet posting rights had been violated.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:33 (ten years ago) link

the insult to injury "haha i get to call you a name in the admin log as i ban you" thing is pretty disgusting. wasn't that little text box made to explain/justify mod actions?

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:34 (ten years ago) link

and imo if you have notions that mods must have an extra layer of skin than other posters, fair enough. It's fair enough on the other side of the coin- have an extra layer of courtesy when dealing with them in their modding capacity.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:36 (ten years ago) link

xp well yeah that was not ideal tbh

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:36 (ten years ago) link

different rules apply for whiney, in fact I believe they're called the "whiney house rules"

dayo, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:37 (ten years ago) link

I would just like a pat on the head for not posting any of the dumb shit that I typed and then erased. thanking u

honkin' on joey kramer (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:40 (ten years ago) link

'cider-by-cop house rules

nakhchivan, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:41 (ten years ago) link

the whole case here seems to be 'whiney should be treated like an adult!'.

Eh, why? Like the guy a lot but maturity aint his modus operandi afaict.

The 27 days thing, yeah does seem excessive- not hi dere's call.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:41 (ten years ago) link

don't know why you think this is about coddling Whiney. it's more like "if he was at 49, maybe the mod should have just taken that knowledge as some comfort, and waited a couple days for the guys pissing him off to get himself banned."

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:43 (ten years ago) link

if you dont want people to give you shit re being a mod, just dont be a mod, easy

And if you don't want to end up being tempbanned, don't be a dick to people all the time, easy.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:43 (ten years ago) link

it's still completely unclear to me what whiney is meant to have done

rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:46 (ten years ago) link

ban durations are not a force of nature. disingenuous to shift blame to the code.

caek, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:46 (ten years ago) link

i've never been banned and probably never will unless i suicide-by-cop out of frustration with you guys, so that's not advice you need to give me. don't know why it's so ridiculous to hold mods to a higher standard than the most aggressive bannable posters.

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:47 (ten years ago) link

afaict dp has a pretty solid record of implementing and justifying his decisions in a way that results in clusterfucks. the fact that many of the people posting on this thread sbed whiney themselves is evidence of this, matt, not evidence that dan is modding well. and he doesn't even seem to like being a mod that much. perhaps a sabbatical?

caek, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:49 (ten years ago) link

speaking personally i'd much rather mods dealt tempbans independent of the sb system if it's merited. There was accusations of tinkering before iirc ?enrique?

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:50 (ten years ago) link

The tempban was independent of the Suggest Ban system.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:50 (ten years ago) link

If you guys want I can officially lift Whiney's mod-inflicted temp ban and then ban him for 30 days because he's on 52 Suggest Bans. Would that help clear this up?

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:52 (ten years ago) link

afaict if someone was to ban themselves after a full and public explanation there'd be three clusterfucks within a minute

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:52 (ten years ago) link

xp yeah matt was respondin to some dude above re temp bans being kept independent

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:53 (ten years ago) link

no reason to cry for whiney but it was a pretty whimsical and arbitrary ban. maybe 'he had it coming' is true but it doesn't look good as precedent.

nakhchivan, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:54 (ten years ago) link

If you guys want I can officially lift Whiney's mod-inflicted temp ban and then ban him for 30 days because he's on 52 Suggest Bans. Would that help clear this up?

― Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:52 (2 minutes ago)

i think so? kinda

nakhchivan, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:54 (ten years ago) link

works for me, if you also take away dan's mod powers. who will police the police?

caek, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:55 (ten years ago) link

If you guys want I can officially lift Whiney's mod-inflicted temp ban and then ban him for 30 days because he's on 52 Suggest Bans. Would that help clear this up?

― Matt DC, Thursday, November 4, 2010 8:52 AM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I don't feel comfortable speaking for Whiney or anyone else, but tbh I think that would be fair. would be kind of ridiculous if he served his 27 days, then got SB ban sentence back to back, seems like it should be one or the other.

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:56 (ten years ago) link

I was taking the piss a bit with that post, but I think he'll be off for a month whatever happens.

I mean it comes down to it that the mods agreed with Whiney about the rape username, it was being dealt with. But Whiney was being pointlessly sarcastic and antagonistic (in the way he is with everyone) for no reason other than to be a dick and provoke a fight.

He could have actually put his point rationally and he didn't, which is why he's tempbanned and Some Dude and whoever else is making their point more-or-less straighforwardly on this thread isn't.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 12:57 (ten years ago) link

I mean it comes down to it that the mods agreed with Whiney about the rape username, it was being dealt with. But Whiney was being pointlessly sarcastic and antagonistic (in the way he is with everyone) for no reason other than to be a dick and provoke a fight.

dealing with this sort of low level assholery (as in not racist/hacking/etc.) trolling is exactly what i thought the sb system was for, at least that's how it was explained (most vocally by dan). if you're not willing to trust it to do this as mods then i have no idea why we even have it any more.

caek, Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:01 (ten years ago) link

Yeah I don't disagree with that and I without wanting to debate the rights and wrongs of the SB system yet again, the system broadly works. As it happens, in this case the system agreed with Dan, another two people SBed Whiney almost immediately.

The thing that's always exasperating about these discussions is that it's always couched in two things. Firstly is the "who watches the Watchmen?" line, implying it's a shady conspiracy to keep certain people we don't like down, just because we don't like them. Trust me, if I thought I could just get away with banning everyone I don't like then there would be a hell of a lot more people on the permaban list. Actually, the mods ARE accountable. They're accountable to the other mods, and above all to the coders who have the ultimate say. We disagree on things more than people think and that has an effect on policy.

The other thing, which is particularly irritating, is that there's nearly always a "we think X should not be a mod" strand, like people are actively aiming to have someone's mod privs removed. Everyone's entitled to express that opinion but ultimately the same ten or so people who are always on these threads do not have any say in it, that's purely a matter for the people who run the site, and that's always been the case, from Tom Ewing onwards. I'm sure if Keith and Stet seriously thought that any mod was not trusted by the community to moderate the site, then they wouldn't be moderating the site. If you don't like that, tough, really.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:34 (ten years ago) link

It's also worth pointing out that if you look at Dan's modding history, he almost always overturns a temp ban after a day or so and my guess is that would have happened here as well. The 29 day thing is a quirk of the system based on the number of times he's been tempbanned in the past.

It's irrelevant now as Whiney's been 51'ed anyway. I'd imagine he'd be let back in a month, but at the same time going "when I return I will continue to post as I always have" is not really the way to persuade mods to treat you leniently.

Matt DC, Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:41 (ten years ago) link

remember what happened the mouth of sauron, man, dont be that guy threatening the mob.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:42 (ten years ago) link

I'd imagine he'd be let back in a month, but at the same time going "when I return I will continue to post as I always have" is not really the way to persuade mods to treat you leniently.

― Matt DC, Thursday, November 4, 2010 1:41 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

not really seeing whiney's steez as particularly offensive

guess i've been here a long time, seen a lotta shit go down

rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:44 (ten years ago) link

I was about to write Matt's last post almost verbatim (and in fact has said similar to him privately before this).

If Whiney comes back and continues to be an abusive ass with a secret "oh but it's hust jokes, I really love you guys FUCK YOU haha I'm a scamp!" thread on 77, I will permaban him. ILX does not need that shit.

lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:44 (ten years ago) link

If "spend more time being civil than uncivil to other posters" is too much for you to bear, don't post here.

lol tea partiers and their fat fingers (HI DERE), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:45 (ten years ago) link

whuuuuuuuut?

that excludes most of the board's a-list, past and present

rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:49 (ten years ago) link

don't worry, there's always room for b-list dicks and sociopaths

nakhchivan, Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:51 (ten years ago) link

OK, if you've got our backs when people are being assholes and are capable of doing this without the guidance of SB counts behind the scenes, which is what you seem to be saying, lets ditch the SB system.

Firstly is the "who watches the Watchmen?" line, implying it's a shady conspiracy to keep certain people we don't like down, just because we don't like them.

That's not my point. My point is that, like a lot of aspects of moderation (Sb thresholds, ban durations), you act like the mod roster is a force of nature, and not something that's up for debate. Every time this happens you just circle the wagons.

there's nearly always a "we think X should not be a mod" strand, like people are actively aiming to have someone's mod privs removed. Everyone's entitled to express that opinion but ultimately the same ten or so people who are always on these threads do not have any say in it, that's purely a matter for the people who run the site, and that's always been the case, from Tom Ewing onwards

Absolutely. But if someone acting as mod doesn't have the trust of regular users then surely this is at least relevant to the decision you guys are making, since it impairs their ability to mod. This "if someone" is not hypothetical concern trolling by the way. I don't trust dan to make the right decisions. I didn't trust tom either, but he was lolz. Not saying that should be a deal breaker though. Just letting u know how i feel.

caek, Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:54 (ten years ago) link

there are huge gaps btwn what sb deals with and some other banworthy behaviours.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 13:59 (ten years ago) link

I propose that there be one Super Mod on ILX who can do whatever he/she wants. however, each user will also be given a Super Mod Button. when a user presses the Super Mod Button, the current Super Mod will be permabanned and the user who pressed the button will become the new Super Mod. The Mod Is Dead, Long Live The Mod

dayo, Thursday, 4 November 2010 14:00 (ten years ago) link

The thing that's always exasperating about these discussions is that it's always couched in two things. Firstly is the "who watches the Watchmen?" line, implying it's a shady conspiracy to keep certain people we don't like down, just because we don't like them. Trust me, if I thought I could just get away with banning everyone I don't like then there would be a hell of a lot more people on the permaban list. Actually, the mods ARE accountable. They're accountable to the other mods, and above all to the coders who have the ultimate say. We disagree on things more than people think and that has an effect on policy.

The other thing, which is particularly irritating, is that there's nearly always a "we think X should not be a mod" strand, like people are actively aiming to have someone's mod privs removed. Everyone's entitled to express that opinion but ultimately the same ten or so people who are always on these threads do not have any say in it, that's purely a matter for the people who run the site, and that's always been the case, from Tom Ewing onwards. I'm sure if Keith and Stet seriously thought that any mod was not trusted by the community to moderate the site, then they wouldn't be moderating the site. If you don't like that, tough, really.

― Matt DC, Thursday, November 4, 2010 9:34 AM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well, maybe the only way they'll know who the community trusts to moderate the site is if we have these kinds of threads now and again. if pestering little people like me are so powerless you might as well at least let us talk.

I do understand that it kind of takes things in a weird uncomfortable direction to talk about the character or temperament of people who mod, but honestly I feel it does matter -- Dan's a great poster partly because of how hilariously inflexible he is about his opinions and how mercilessly he shoots down others' arguments. that's great fun in a thread about Justin Timberlake, not so much when he's the one deciding who gets to post or not for the next month. I mean, there are a lot of great personalities on this board, but for pretty obvious reasons I'd be fine with nabisco modding, Alex in NYC not so much.

Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, 4 November 2010 14:04 (ten years ago) link

both those traits make him a pretty good mod too

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 November 2010 14:06 (ten years ago) link

for pretty obvious reasons I'd be fine with nabisco modding, Alex in NYC not so much.

― Danble Perritration (some dude), Thursday, November 4, 2010 2:04 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

mostly agree with some dude but ehh whatever @ this

rip whiney g weingarten 03/11 never forget (history mayne), Thursday, 4 November 2010 14:07 (ten years ago) link


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