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Dixon is very good though, can't deny that.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:09 (nine years ago) link

they should show the clock on highlights.

yeah i've never understood this. i always thought it was some kind of tradition.

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:09 (nine years ago) link

yeah i mean...savage i can vaguely handle cos he's there for amusement purposes. i've been to focus/motd meetings and it's like, nobody ever criticises the shows apart from v niggly editorial concerns...you've basically got two tiers, v v senior producers who've prob been in sport forever plus all the talent whose words must be heard and obeyed at all times, then lots of guys in their 20s who film and write the pieces, who pretty much all say zero.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:10 (nine years ago) link

MOTD/2 are going for the blokey audience

Influence of TalkSport and its "record" audiences, surely?

James Mitchell, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:11 (nine years ago) link

I wonder if MOTD/2 are going for the blokey audience because they figure that's where they are losing TV viewing figures to the internet? My dad, for example, would watch them if they were presented by just about anyone because that's how he gets to see all the games the day they happened, so presumably they don't have to target him with gimmicks, just the actual game footage. Getting other people to watch might be the aim of going for some marketing demographic of blokes-who-watch-football-on-the-internet?

None of this really. I think the readly-available footage of goals on the internet is a factor, but it's not a massive one. How gimmicky is MOTD really? It's not that it's gimmicky, it's that the analysis is shit. But I'm not sure people are bothered about that in significant amounts. It's still the main place to go for Premiership goals and I can't see it hitting it's TOTP moment any time soon.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:12 (nine years ago) link

I wonder if MOTD/2 are going for the blokey audience because they figure that's where they are losing TV viewing figures to the internet?

the thing i don't get about motd2 is that post-chiles it seems to have become more like a shitty internet forum, with 'lol moustaches' and 'lol old' instead of insight and whatnot. and the thing they don't seem to understand is people can get the highlights anywhere, people are going to tune in for insight. when the nani thing happened this weekend, people wanted to know what was said about it - they'd already seen it.

gazza bale flame (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:12 (nine years ago) link

Yeah, I do prefer managers to ex-players as pundits. I get really sick of "you were a striker yourself Alan, how would you deal with a defender like that?" "i'd have kicked him, ho ho chortle slap me on the back and tell me how funny I am please" oh fuck off.

btw, you think yr man McNulty's bad, have a swatch at Chick Young's column for a few weeks.

ailsa, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:12 (nine years ago) link

I think the blokeyness is being overstated here anyway. It's football, of course there's going to be blokeyness. It's not like they're wheeling James Corden and Danny Dyer as presenters.

Matt DC, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:13 (nine years ago) link

they should show the clock on highlights.

yeah i've never understood this. i always thought it was some kind of tradition.

apparently it's because on motd they recut the action from multiple cameras with the benefit of hindsight, rather than use the live feed. that means shots are occasionally shown out of order on motd. so if they just took the timecode, the clock would very occasionally jump backward.

caek, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:18 (nine years ago) link

the thing i don't get about motd2 is that post-chiles it seems to have become more like a shitty internet forum, with 'lol moustaches' and 'lol old' instead of insight and whatnot. and the thing they don't seem to understand is people can get the highlights anywhere, people are going to tune in for insight. when the nani thing happened this weekend, people wanted to know what was said about it - they'd already seen it.

this is EXACTLY otm. and like, now that you can watch motd2 on iplayer for the first time, how many of you just flick to the highlights and ignore the analysis. people can get everything for free at the moment, music, video, whatever, you have to really fight to make them give a toss about your added content, eg the opinion of some "experts". i totally agree motd2 is now sort of just vague "lol".

MOTD used to actually be enjoyable to watch, and it'd have some semblance of a discussion and I'd want to hear what they said about Liverpool or whatever, but it's got quite poor like that. I don't get why they don't try and copy the RTE model, as much as that's flawed too people would fucking love it. Get some people who will actually get annoyed about their beliefs in football.

x-post haha ailsa I read chick young's column just to laugh at how bad it is!

x-post to matt no but they did hire colin murray, and they are going for a more tame tepid version of the same. i'd actually tolerate it more if it was just the unabashed WHO ARE YA of soccer am but they're trying to meld together the fucking kaiser chiefs and a decent football show...or robbie williams and mark lawrenson.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:19 (nine years ago) link

Some xposting there

Maybe not "gimmicky" as such, but certainly blokey and lolz and stuff, more so than blokes in suits discussing things earnestly (the latter being what I reckon people like my old man who doesn't have the internet would want?) - this makes for shit analysis, if I want lolz I'll come here (also for more insightful analysis than I get from MOTD, tbf). As a result, I rarely go out of my way to watch it these days - I tend to watch highlights online then read analysis/blogs from various places (including here), so it's not really a gap I need filled, but when I do watch, it adds precisely nothing to my viewing experience because they add nothing to what I've gleaned.

ailsa, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:21 (nine years ago) link

the only thing relating to motd/bbc coverage i have heard all season is hanson's challops when theo scored a hatrick. people tuned in for that and to hear them talk about the ability of a young english player. and then the week after when he again played terrifically (maybe that was the week he scored the hatrick) and to see what was to be said. again, it wasn't to see what theo did, it was about the analysis.

Only thing I really pay attention to is Tim Vickery's column but even waivering on that since they plastered his pornstar face all over it.

gazza bale flame (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:28 (nine years ago) link

he is actually good yeah...tho running out of steam in terms of topics, at the start he was really interesting/informative.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 11:31 (nine years ago) link

they should show the clock on highlights

They can't do this because sometimes the editing is dishonest in order to get whatever narrative they're after, and the clock would flag it up too much. Couple of weeks back I put on Liverpool-Blackburn in the afternoon with an hour gone, saw Torres score immediately to make it 2-1, then saw Blackburn control the game but fail to create any decent chances. I posted on here that it seemed like a decent win but they still looked a bit ropey, andgot shouted down.

Saw motd2 a few days later, and what I got was wave after wave of Liverpool attacks, culminating in Torres' winner then cut to a jubilant Anfield. The entire last third of the game was missing. Liverpool looked sensational, and no wonder.

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 13:42 (nine years ago) link

it's also very annoying when there's a goal between them and you don't know if there's 10 minutes or 30 seconds left

caek, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 13:44 (nine years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqAZsoF-ghw

Brian Clough taking exactly the opposite view about analysis here. While I've got a bit of sympathy with where he in particular is coming from, there's a kind of anti-intellect bent to it (of the kind that often makes me feel I'm in love with the wrong sport)

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 13:46 (nine years ago) link

I mentioned it in another thread, but Alan Hansen's "Who gave you that one?" to Lee Dixon after he rolled off a stat about Stoke made my blood boil. Happened during the World Cup, too.

The Goal Of The Month music is shite an' all.

The referee was perfect (Chris), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 13:48 (nine years ago) link

happened the last night too

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 13:53 (nine years ago) link

Think this came up elsewhere but maybe there's a problem with having the same old faces for so long. Hansen and Lineker have been there for over 15 years but it doesn't seem like they are any better at the job now than when they started, and maybe feel too safe and unchallenged.

sock lobster (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 14:41 (nine years ago) link

two key words at the end there.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 14:47 (nine years ago) link

I don't like the no clock thing too and have always wondered about it.

The Scottish football highlights are odd in that they don't even bother trying to offer any kind of drama or tension. I guess it makes sense since they aren't shown till long afterwards (which is bad enough itself), but having a highlights show where games are prefaced in the studio with comments like "now let's see how St Johnstone held Aberdeen to a draw" and the highlights themselves having commentary moments like "but Aberdeen didn't keep their lead for long" in the runup to the goal it's talking about doesn't help anything.

Antoine Bugleboy (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 18:01 (nine years ago) link

a clock that just faded on and off at regular intervals would be good

sock lobster (blueski), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 18:04 (nine years ago) link

Lineker is very, very good btw - you just don't notice so much because he's not particularly likeable. Lets the guests speak, knows his stuff, generally steers things in the right direction and only occasionally lets himself down by getting involved with the crap. It's not his fault the guests are usually terrible - he shows appropriate respect to the good ones.

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 18:39 (nine years ago) link

lineker deserves a better panel than shearer or lawrenson, and i think it's widely accepted that hansen would quite clearly be fit to up his game were he challenged to actually debate or analyze anything whatsoever. he's settled into the easy contempt of the bright kid in the remedial class for so long now.

john giles would have him for breakfast.

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:13 (nine years ago) link

Hansen used to be really good and much more angry/critical. I actually think if they gave Lawro a bit of a kick up the hole he's at least got a brain, you can tell he's capable of analysing a game to some level. Shearer is just a tragedy though, the man is just a huge wanker.

Would love to see Shearer with Giles and Dunphy....god that'd be amazing.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:48 (nine years ago) link

they should try and give o'neill a permanent role for a while...

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:49 (nine years ago) link

Shearer is just a tragedy though, the man is just a huge wanker.

for some reason this is my favourite sentence of prose I've read today

acoleuthic, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:50 (nine years ago) link

In an earlier time I think Ronan might have used the word "brutal"

I agree about Lineker, he's very good at what he does. No idea how much is left on the cutting room floor of course.

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:53 (nine years ago) link

On Lineker's 'what's wrong with English football' thing when they showed footage of them watching Klose's goal, I was a bit shocked that Shearer was the one ranting and raving while everyone else just looked glum and deathly quiet. I guess I think of him as having so little personality that seeing him caring about something was a surprise.

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:55 (nine years ago) link

just hates foreigners imo

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:59 (nine years ago) link

and no lawrenson is a brainless gobshite, i don't think there's anything he's got in reserve or anything. his other media work just backs that up

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 19:59 (nine years ago) link

Lineker is very, very good btw - you just don't notice so much because he's not particularly likeable. Lets the guests speak, knows his stuff, generally steers things in the right direction and only occasionally lets himself down by getting involved with the crap. It's not his fault the guests are usually terrible - he shows appropriate respect to the good ones.

― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 18:39 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lineker deserves a better panel than shearer or lawrenson, and i think it's widely accepted that hansen would quite clearly be fit to up his game were he challenged to actually debate or analyze anything whatsoever. he's settled into the easy contempt of the bright kid in the remedial class for so long now.

both of these posts otm.

another problem to list - saying teams have scored on the live updates when they haven't. jeez is it that hard to only type goal updates and score changes WHEN SOMEONE ACTUALLY SCORES?

gazza bale flame (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 20:42 (nine years ago) link

the live updates are terrible, if you compare the bbc one to the guardian one you see loads of incidents are missed, not to mention the fact that they sometimes leave huge gaps before updating it...

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:06 (nine years ago) link

they are pretty much illiterate too. i mean i know it's live, but the guardian manages to remain coherent. and they're the guardian.

caek, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:10 (nine years ago) link

mind you that bloke doing bolton liverpool on saturday, that was all over the place, errors everywhere. they have a sub working with them as well at bbc so it's two people fucking up...i think they have it completely arseways tbh, they want newspaper experience for the people who do that job. all they need is people who are used to watching matches and feverishly typing on facebook/forums...

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:15 (nine years ago) link

hot damn

cant believe you sb'd me for that (darraghmac), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:16 (nine years ago) link

haha, did your sky interview already happen? any news?xp

caek, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:17 (nine years ago) link

haha it's true tho, why on earth would you seek old media people to do such a colloquial and fun job. prob explains why most of them are like if that old beepy thing on grandscreen could form sentences.

interview is friday...i'm fucked with a chest infection but it might be breaking a bit hopefully, i haven't been able to think about it much cos of that but now that it's easing feeling quite confident. actually heard today got an interview with the guardian as well (just to ensure i've slagged off every potential employer here) in a few weeks, but it's not a sport related role.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:20 (nine years ago) link

well good luck!

there is a thread for slagging the guardian off more generally on ILE if that would be useful?

caek, Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:22 (nine years ago) link

yeah i'm there plenty, i'm scared they'll ask if i use comment is free, i might delete my account beforehand so they don't see me making endless juvenile remarks about articles...

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:24 (nine years ago) link

actually thinking about the updates thing...it's probably as slow it as it is because the first guy writes it, the second guy checks it, he then sends a copy to the bbc lawyers who forward it to text rights, then it is filtered through the bip system and must be signed off manually by tvc security.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 21:27 (nine years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/9156977.stm

the headline for this on the main page "managerial greats, are they a dying breed."

real clever there.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Wednesday, 3 November 2010 22:29 (nine years ago) link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_9160000/newsid_9162600/9162687.stm

lawro out of his comfort zone. not actually as funny as it could have been (since everyone funny has been fired) but still funny seeing lawro in this mode...

I see what this is (Local Garda), Friday, 5 November 2010 15:18 (nine years ago) link

how'd it go ronan?

gazza bale flame (a hoy hoy), Saturday, 6 November 2010 07:38 (nine years ago) link

Yo sam thanks for asking, i posted a tiny bit of this on ile, it went largely well but was really weird.

I expected a full on interrogation type deal like you'd get in BBC but it was really informal and nice. Made me worry they'd already given the job away except they spent ages talking about what it's like to work there etc. Loads of it was them selling/reassuring me about the job.

Then I had to do a subbing test in the middle with a sports news script and I cut it down a lot and removed all the kerrazy mistakes. There was one about cricket tho where I knew it was a mistake but didn't know the exact right year.

I mean overall it went great in that I was well able to answer everything they asked. I guess personally I'd rather if they'd been harsher as I'd have had more chance to show my skills. I guess maybe they are happier to take your cv at face value than the beeb.

They did show me around the office too at the end. I guess the relaxed feel either means they've already decided I can do the job or as I said, already given it away!

There's two jobs going, one permanent and one freelance. Permanent would be pretty amazing and would avoid what happened to me at BBC ever happening again.

I see what this is (Local Garda), Saturday, 6 November 2010 09:16 (nine years ago) link

I've noticed there's a kind of MOTD hierarchy of importance - Chelsea, Man U and Arsenal all get lengthy, above-the-fold treatment; the stage is set with a narrative introduction beforehand and highlights are followed by video playback and analysis. Then a fourth club gets a half-hearted version of this. Then you get an absolutely peremptory, moronic intro to the next match ("X have won two in a row..... while Y are unbeaten at home this year!" FFS); the remaining matches are shown with no intro, no analysis, only goals or shots on goal.

Is it just because I is American, or does it strike anyone else as strange that the pan-UK BBC dedicates the lion's share of each MOTD to the same three or four teams every single show? Would it be heresy to suggest trimming the top four condensed games by a minute or so each, so as to offer better highlights from ALL the games and a bit more analysis of them? Sure, Wigan's not a big-market team but it's a show about the Premier League - they need to be in there properly surely!

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Monday, 8 November 2010 11:04 (nine years ago) link

dude you've forgotten basic capitalism 101

acoleuthic, Monday, 8 November 2010 11:06 (nine years ago) link

it's the BBC! they don't have the same pressures! there are LEAGUE games (in the following five-hour League show) that get more attention than many Premier League games

progressive cuts (Tracer Hand), Monday, 8 November 2010 11:16 (nine years ago) link

It's funny, but I never used to notice the hierarchy until a couple of years back when somebody made a big thing of their team always being on last. Now any suspense the show had is totally ruined for me - if Chelsea-Fulham is on before Man Utd-Everton it's obvious Chelsea must've had a shock defeat. At least if Blackburn-Wolves is up first it gives due notice that there must've been a death, so you can look away if squeamish.

Ismael Klata, Monday, 8 November 2010 11:17 (nine years ago) link

it's at least 7 and a half hours long

acoleuthic, Monday, 8 November 2010 11:17 (nine years ago) link

we allowing this 1992 liveblog

imago, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 15:31 (two years ago) link

gonna say it's more tragic than fun.

Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 15 August 2017 15:43 (two years ago) link

anything which includes a coventry premier league fantasy is a+ imo

nxd, Tuesday, 15 August 2017 16:08 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41684602

all the highest-rated comments to this are rightly calling it out for the clickbait shite it is

imago, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 15:53 (two years ago) link

Heh, same with this one, also from today: http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41828734

Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 15:56 (two years ago) link

Are you analysing a football piece using the comments like count

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 15:57 (two years ago) link

come now

imago, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 15:59 (two years ago) link

What like on a three count or just whenever I'm ready or what

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:01 (two years ago) link

does it not strike you of all people as tedious that any spurs player who emerges above a certain media-dictated parapet of excellence is destined for a 'bigger club' (population: real madrid)

imago, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:08 (two years ago) link

or are you actually quite cheered with the bernabeu feeder club motif

imago, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:09 (two years ago) link

I like to think that we're above reacting to this stuff as if it required our attn tbh

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:14 (two years ago) link

the wiser discourse

imago, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:15 (two years ago) link

I think the media gets in a tizzy at the idea of an English player being good enough to play for a major team outside England.

Terry Micawber (Tom D.), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:25 (two years ago) link

It's understandable but curiously honestly humble

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 16:27 (two years ago) link

Think Tom's otm. An English player succeeding - or even just going - abroad always seems to create huge waves with yr press. Probably because so few succeeded.

But it's still clickbait that deserves to be called out imo.

Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 1 November 2017 17:08 (two years ago) link

Count yerselves lucky you don't have to watch on rte. For twenty years George Hamilton has been a second ahead of the picture and it has spoiled every moment of football ever and is currently doing so for spurs madrid

Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 1 November 2017 19:53 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

rip armfield, have fond memories of the man

#TeamHailing (imago), Monday, 22 January 2018 11:01 (one year ago) link

Ah, shame, good guy. RIP Jimmy.

Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Monday, 22 January 2018 11:51 (one year ago) link

LIVE FA Cup - De Bruyne with cheeky free-kick v Cardiff

FFS! If only he had attempted a deferential free-kick, cos I hate that word.

calzino, Sunday, 28 January 2018 16:34 (one year ago) link

six months pass...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45194443

literally end the bbc here

imago, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 17:52 (one year ago) link

privatised, shut down, fucked off. over.

imago, Wednesday, 15 August 2018 17:53 (one year ago) link

three months pass...

AHAHAHA LOOK IT'S NOLE GALLAGER I WROTE A "JOEK" ABOUT DEFINITELY MAYBE THAT WAS WORTH EDITING IN

cunts

Mama Weer All Tankee Now (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 25 November 2018 09:12 (eleven months ago) link

two months pass...

Oh, well, OK, Sutton was talking about the Premier League. But I refuse to recognise that backstop, which exists in these discussions simply to excuse people with no sense/knowledge of history.

— Richard Williams (@rwilliams1947) February 7, 2019

the former old grey whistle test presenter mugging off Chris Sutton goodstyle!

calzino, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:03 (nine months ago) link

RW is a contributor to Mark S's book and was at the launch party a few weeks back. I regret not having a word with him. He seems like a righteous fellow.

Tim, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:19 (nine months ago) link

Sutton doing the clod-hopping football shock jock thing is currently vying with zombie Humphrys as the worst thing about BBC radio.

Tim, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:20 (nine months ago) link

I like him a lot, despite him stanning for Nicola Sturgeon! It's probably counter to everything ILM/ILX represents but I liked his music blog (that is currently on hiatus) as well. His knowledge of 70'/80's footballers is unfuckwithable and he seems to realise it actually existed before Murdoch. Yeah and that fucking high-octane talksport twat style of punditry that is so prevalent these days - he's about as far opposite of *that* as it gets.

calzino, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:32 (nine months ago) link

Tim otm, out-Savaging Savage is no way to go thru life

Stephen Yakkety-Yaxley-Rosbif (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:37 (nine months ago) link

we have this twat (ex-goalie matt glennon) as a summariser on local bbc radio, and he's done the same course I think.

calzino, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:46 (nine months ago) link

god I just want make clear I was repping for RW in xxp in case it sounds like CS.

calzino, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:52 (nine months ago) link

That was clear.

Tim, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:58 (nine months ago) link

Though the idea that you're an avid reader of Chris Sutton's music blog is a happy one.

Tim, Thursday, 7 February 2019 16:59 (nine months ago) link

The only thing I don't like about RW's blog was that he kept reviewing great-sounding shows that happened within a mile of our flat and the first I heard of it would be his review.

Tim, Thursday, 7 February 2019 17:00 (nine months ago) link

virgil van dijk is great tho

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 7 February 2019 17:19 (nine months ago) link


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