UK Digibox: Classic or Dud

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I expect Fireman Sam to come round any day now.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 15:01 (eighteen years ago) link

ten months pass...
(This is a repeat, and a boring one at that)

More digibox excitement: the other day I put it on top of the DVD player, and when I tried to play a DVD it wouldn't work, just kept saying "CLOSE" and flickering about. Took DVD back to library as "damaged". Got replacement DVD. Also refused to work. Tried DVD that is personal property and known to work. Would not work. Moved digibox. All was sweetness and light again.
That was a bit longwinded. To sum up:

a) I am a joey.

b) My digibox lacks some kind of "shielding".

c) funny old world.

I want one of those Humax recording things.

I wonder if ITV Digital boxes are collectors' items?

3-way at Argos sounds absolutely delightful. Brings a whole new meaninglessness to "please go to your collection point".

-- PJ Miller (pjmiller6...), January 4th, 2007.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 4 January 2007 08:58 (seventeen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
Yet more digibox excitement:

Directly after last night's opening episode of gritty kidnap drama FIVE DAYS, a disembodied voice suggested that I "set [my] recorder" to make sure I managed to catch "all the episodes".

Did anyone else hear this, or was it a subliminal message?

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 11:18 (seventeen years ago) link

I bought one! It is also a DVD player, and it has a hard drive too. Every Daily Show this week is going straight into the vault. My building has a rooftop aerial so I plugged it in and VOILA. It's very much like the "free cable" that you get in New York, i.e. if you don't pay for cable but you decide to take the cable that's coming through the wall and plug it into your TV just to see what happens, you get like 30 channels, a few of which are alright and most of which are terrible. The main difference with Freeview, I guess, is that the digital broadcasters in the UK get away with providing a very pixellated picture a lot of the time. It is cool having all the digital radio stations on there, too, though.

It's just my impression, because I don't actually know, but isn't the US pretty far behind when it comes to digital broadcasting in general? Clinton signed a bill that said all transmissions had to be digital by a certain year (I think it was 2007) but Americans have never even heard of digital radio, much less TV.

The other thing that occurs to me is that maybe that's a good thing! Digital television seems like the final nail in the coffin of "the public airwaves", i.e. the idea that no-one can own the magnetic fields of Earth, and no-one can own all the air one must vibrate in order to broadcast radio and television signals. Because governments are "auctioning" the spectrum off. Am I misled in the thought that this is a very different concept from what has heretofore prevailed, i.e. that broadcasters used the frequency spectrum at the public's pleasure?

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:07 (seventeen years ago) link

the govt made itself monopoly broadcaster initially! i think the assumption has always been that the state owns the airwaves and it can flog 'em off one by one (as it were) as it sees fit. you *could* identify the government with the public, i *guess*.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:11 (seventeen years ago) link

I need a DVD hard disk recorder but how would I get it to work with my Home Choice box? e.g. would the HD recorder controls be able to change cable channes automatically for programmes (which I know Sky+ does)? it seems unlikely. So I'd only be able to record the current channel.

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Tracer the internet is the new public airwaves really.

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:14 (seventeen years ago) link

The pixilation is because:

a) your aerial is crap or badly aligned
b) it is in the shadow of something
c) Signal strength is poor till analogue switchoff occurs (although this is not much of a problem in London, compare to the other two).

Government are auctioning licences rather than selling off spectrum, but it does amount to the same thing. Multiplexing is what is centralising the airwaves. Bouquets of channels need to be broadcast from the same place rather than in a distributed fashion so there are gate keepers other than the government and TV-Channels in the mix.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:19 (seventeen years ago) link

It's that identification that allows the state to claim ownership in the first place. The medium being auctioned is the air we all breathe, and the electromagnetic fields we all wade through each day. It seems eminently public, just like oil and coal do. Private companies should surely be compensated, and somtimes handsomely, for facilitating the exploitation of these common resources, but no one in particular owns them. And when no one in particular, by logic and justice, owns an immensely valuable resource, it surely belongs to the state. What I question is the state's right to then turn around and sell what has accrued to it from public generosity. It's like Bruce Ratner in Brooklyn, getting the city to claim imminent domain on blocks of housing, knocking them down to build a stadium for the New Jersey Nets, accepting millions from the city coffers to do it, and then (mark my words) selling the team to someone else for a tidy profit three years later (max).

I also worry that because digital broadcasting has been taken up in a climate where the spectrum has been auctioned, rather than... what, borrowed? - then there will bo no obligation whatsoever to provide public service programming, i.e. educational programming, programing for kids, etc. And government requirements, both in the US and the UK, for broadcasters to permanently switch off their analogue transmitters forever, seem like a government enforcement of this privatization (not to mention an enforcement to buy expensive new kit).

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:23 (seventeen years ago) link

Ed I think in the US the spectrum was actually sold. I need to reesearch that, though, because I'm not sure.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:25 (seventeen years ago) link

More fool them then, we get to auction the same spectrum again when the next boondoggle comes along.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:27 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't get yr consitutional theory, tracer. or i 'get' it but i don't think it scans: what 'allows' the state to do anything is a series of concessions to (as of the 1920s anyway, when these decisions were made) various sectors of the population, viz, the vote. but only very few pols would have said that that means the public can be identified with the state.

indeed the bbc was explicitly made into a govt propaganda outlet during the general strike, and then during ww2.

there was a huge row re. coal mines being under private property. iirc the landowners got paid.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I keep forgetting you guys have a Queen.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:34 (seventeen years ago) link

it's not even about that: it's just that the authority of parliament isn't so explicitly related to representing "the public" as it might be. it hasn't fundamentally been changed by extending the franchise.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:36 (seventeen years ago) link

It is exactly about that. Government still derives it's power from the monarchy, even if the monarchy has ceded that power to whoever wins a popularity contest every 5 years.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:38 (seventeen years ago) link

That is not entirely true, parliament does not derive it's power to legislate on revenue matters from the Monarch.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:41 (seventeen years ago) link

The Act of Settlement basically means that parliament runs the country on a franchise basis from the monarch in return for a bundle of money.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:44 (seventeen years ago) link

1688 did sort of put the monarch out of play, but even still parliament is not beholden to 'the public' other than by the vote.

the biggest constitutional upheaval since 1688 (1910-14) ended in a weird kind of stalemate (in which the authority of parliament had to be maintained *against* the public (women, unions).

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:48 (seventeen years ago) link

The pixilation is because:
a) your aerial is crap or badly aligned
b) it is in the shadow of something
c) Signal strength is poor till analogue switchoff occurs (although this is not much of a problem in London, compare to the other two).

Does reception affect things like bitrate? I didn't know it worked like that - I thought you either got the picture quality as broadcast or you got break-up. I thought what Tracer was complaining about was things like 1980s drama serials on ITV2 looking like they've been converted on someone's laptop in ten minutes by some freeware.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:55 (seventeen years ago) link

that sounds right. my signal is loud and clear and the good stuff looks good; but other stuff looks crummy and compressed.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Bitrate is different. The less premium channels run at lower bitrates and are prone to artefacting.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 12:59 (seventeen years ago) link

Are you sure you're not thinking of 1980s drama serials like the ones on ITV 2 on your laptop, Michael?


I get more drop-outs on less premium AKA shit channels. Is that for the same reason, or am I doolally?

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Michael that is EXACTLY what it looks like! Whether that is indeed the cause of the awfulness of it (a great example here is Battle Royale, shown the other night on... can't remember, which I was excited to finally see, only to find that everything BLACK had become BLUE and everything else had become GREY and when anyone swung a fist, the whole image seemed to shudder) or if it's the bitrate thing I don't know. I assumed it was the latter, and not because of reception, but because my understanding has been that broadcasters have had the choice to use all their "bits" (hur hur) to output, say, one pristine channel, or to output four channels of squidged-down compressed crap that they can still sell ads for.

Have had no drop-outs so far, except when I thought the sound was out on Big Brother, having not realized that's just the way the show is.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:20 (seventeen years ago) link

Some multiplexes are better than others but this has nothing to do with bitrate. The BBC has the best multiplexes, of course.

That is artefacting and has to do with the channel purchasing a paltry amount of bitrate.

Which channel was it?

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:22 (seventeen years ago) link

> like 1980s drama serials on ITV2 looking like they've been converted on someone's laptop in ten minutes by some freeware.

ha, i spent last night doing exactly that. (although was bbc2 comedy from 1995)(and it was taking about 14 minutes per half hour)

> Bitrate is different. The less premium channels run at lower bitrates and are prone to artefacting.

this is what i thought tracer meant upthread - artefacting / pixelation.

oddly the worst picture i've seen is on csi on five via analogue - facial shadows were a lot darker than they should've been - like they'd been digitised on a 16 colour amiga or something. without dithering.

My Koogy Weighs A Ton (koogs), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:24 (seventeen years ago) link

only to find that everything BLACK had become BLUE and everything else had become GREY and when anyone swung a fist

sounds like a dodgy scart connection to me.

Johnney B English (stigoftdump), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Perhaps we're at cross-purposes; when Tracer says "pixellation" (blockiness, motion judder, low-res feel) he means what Ed means when he says "artefacts". When Ed says "pixellation" he means when I mean when I say "break up".

TV was better at 405 lines. There must be a sloganed T-shirt I can get to that effect.

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:32 (seventeen years ago) link

what I mean, obv

(Give me a break - 3 hours of sleep a night for the last six nights!)

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:32 (seventeen years ago) link

I think I'd like a TiVo. Where can I get one? And can I eat it when I get bored?

xpost - pixellisationing up is so hard to do.

Bhumibol Adulyadej (Lucretia My Reflection), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:34 (seventeen years ago) link

(Yeah, does Ed even know I've dumped him?)

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:35 (seventeen years ago) link

> I think I'd like a TiVo. Where can I get one?

ebay. they stopped making new ones about two years after they started (which is a pity because it's a great bit of kit). other (inferior) boxes that do the same thing (after a fashion) are available... the humax seems popular.

(the one thing that does bug me with the tivo is the american use of channel numbers. bbc is 21 for instance. which is fine and you get used to it quite quickly because the names are there next to the numbers. but then the digital channels come along and are also numbered in the same range as the terrestrial channels so instead of bbc1, itv1, bbc2 etc being adjacent they are now interleaved with filum4 and fiveUS and the like. fiddly.)

My Koogy Weighs A Ton (koogs), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:49 (seventeen years ago) link

I keep forgetting you guys have a Queen.

and they're finally giving her an Oscar after decades of neglect.

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes - I thought they stopped making them - but then you said upthread you upgraded yours, and I thought - gosh! Perhaps they started again. I will look into humax perhaps. Don't really like the name though. HOOOMAX.

Bhumibol Adulyadej (Lucretia My Reflection), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:51 (seventeen years ago) link

human, to the max!

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:53 (seventeen years ago) link

for channels with crappy bitrate allowance is the artefact issue particularly garish during ad breaks when they crank the volume up so much? (this is still the worst thing about modern TV)

vita susicivus (blueski), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 13:55 (seventeen years ago) link

Ad volume = brick-wall compression, done in post-prod by the ad companies, I imagine. Broadcasters could just drop ad breaks by 8-10dB across the board to compensate but I bet they're not allowed to. Ed?

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 14:06 (seventeen years ago) link

> but then you said upthread you upgraded yours

just shoved a hoooge disk in it because 40 hours wasn't enough. it's open enough so that you can do that. i think later models and all the imposters are locked down tightly so you have to go the official upgrade route. or don't bother.

all the major manufacturers do them now, the sony thing won awards in christmas "What Hifi (And Surround Sound System And Half A Dozen Other Categories)" thing. can get them with dvd burners and hard disks and stuff but they tend to be expensive (tivo was £400 when i bought, £200 a year later, £99 for one weekend in some obscure chain about a year after that that was getting rid of theirs)(that said, first nicam video recorder i bought was £399 so...).

i wouldn't've thought volume would affect bitrate. besides, audio bitrate and video bitrate tend to be independant. the compression trick is the reason mute buttons were invented. if they try and grab my attention that way they get muted out. see also: flashing banner ads and adblock

My Koogy Weighs A Ton (koogs), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 14:36 (seventeen years ago) link

That is audio compression rather than compressing audio and has nothing to do with video leagalising (the equivalent to audio compression but not to compressing audio)

Audio compression: when audio signal peaks are brought below a certain level to prevent clipping in the audio signal when it is digitised or otherwise transmitted. This is usually accompanied by some gain normalisation to make sure that the sound power level is brought back up to what it was before compression. Heavy compression and normalisation is what makes the adverts sound louder

Compressing the audio: Using a codec, (AC3 and MP2 are the most common for TV) to reduce the bitrate of the audio signal.

Video Legalising, brinigin the video signal to within the parameters of the tranmission system, i.e. making sure that the Luminance, Chrominance and Variage of the signal all fall within specified limits, in a modern all digital workflow this is normally done at the editing stage.

Video Compression: Using a codec (MPEG-2) to reduce the bitrate of the video signal.

Artefacting: blockyness, blotchiness brought on by over compression of the video signal or inexpertly applied compression. In general older poorer video sources compress poorly and show more digital artefacts because they don't have the sharp focus and bright tones footage of modern digital material and because of existing analogue artefacts You can also get artefact with high motion video at low bitrates.

Blocking or Pixilation: If the MPEG-2 transport stream is interrupted then data integrity will break down. The picture is encode by block of pixels, if it can maintain the picture by holding a block for a few frames then the system will try to do this in an effort to keep something on screen whilst this system tries to recapture the stream. this causes squares on the screen to appear to freeze, go black or change to unexpected colours.

Ed (dali), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 15:07 (seventeen years ago) link

This last one happens on my digibox from time to time. It ain't no thang.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Wednesday, 24 January 2007 15:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Last night's subliminal message to me and me alone:

"Don't forget to set your *digital* recorder so that you catch every episode."

I half expect them to say "don't forget to set your Humax PVR 500..." tonight.


Sometimes the picture goes away but the subtitles stay. What's all that about?

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 25 January 2007 12:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Subtitles are normally on a different PID on the Bouquet, and require low bandwidth so are less susceptible to break-up.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 25 January 2007 12:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Nice glossary, Ed! (You can see why some people might call digital artefacts "pixellation", even though it's not strictly correct).

Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 25 January 2007 12:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Absolutely.

Ed (dali), Thursday, 25 January 2007 12:32 (seventeen years ago) link

it's always particularly bad during the title credits to celebrity big brother arf

vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 25 January 2007 12:43 (seventeen years ago) link

i guess i meant 'titles/credits'

vita susicivus (blueski), Thursday, 25 January 2007 12:46 (seventeen years ago) link

> Battle Royale, shown the other night on... can't remember, which I was excited to finally see

part 2 (universally judged inferior i think) is on film4 on saturday:

http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/film.jsp?id=132014

in related news (kinda), ftn is showing Takeshi's Castle starting in a week or two. first time on freeview.

Koogy Bloogies (koogs), Thursday, 25 January 2007 17:53 (seventeen years ago) link

Battle Royale 2 is complete rubbish. Inferior isn't a strong enough word. It's the inferioriest sequel ever.

ailsa (ailsa), Thursday, 25 January 2007 17:55 (seventeen years ago) link

No mention of digital recorders last night.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Friday, 26 January 2007 09:50 (seventeen years ago) link

i was watching the war film 'the train' last night, or bits of it, on film4 + 1. blocky as fuck. i wonder if +1 is blockier than the actual filmfour.

the original hauntology blogging crew (Enrique), Friday, 26 January 2007 09:57 (seventeen years ago) link

Filmfour has a crystal clear picture usually. Maybe the source of Battle Royale was just crap. Last night I watched "Stuck on You" and it looked perfect. I almost cried when they were on the operating table. I am such a ninny.

Euai Kapaui (tracerhand), Friday, 26 January 2007 11:46 (seventeen years ago) link


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