Jesus Fucking Christ: evangelical bigwig opposed gay marriage "because it takes the dirt and danger out of clandestine sex with rent-a-men"

Hi,

I am one of those people who is no longer shopping at Wal-Mart, but as I talk with other Christians I often get the response that they're going to continue shopping at Wal-Mart because probably all of the other stores we would shop at in place of Wal-Mart are also doing sinful things and/or supporting gay and lesbian groups etc. What is your response to this? Do you know if Kmart supports gays and lesbians? Do you have a list of businesses which Christians can support in good conscience?

I believe if I can address this issue I could be more effective in encouraging people not to support Wal-Mart.

Thank you,

Eileen K.

Hi Eileen,

Why Wal-Mart? It's very true that many other stores have also been bullied into supporting gay issues and have engaged in other evils, but Wal-Mart is special. It is the single largest private employer in America with 1.3 million employees. It is the largest retailer and the largest privately-owned retailer in America , with 127 million weekly customers. It boasts a $300 BILLION a year business . Wal-Mart is the biggest in everything! And it started out under Sam Walton as a godly, family-friendly operation. If we can fight and win at Wal-Mart, we'll be sending a strong message to other companies that they too need the support of American families to succeed and they won't get it by stomping on our values and encouraging and promoting those things that God abhors.

I hope this helps!

God bless your efforts for His kingdom.

Brenda/OSA

But in a news conference after the service, the head of the oversight board, Pastor Larry Stockstill of Baton Rouge, La., told reporters that Haggard denied engaging in homosexual acts or being gay. Stockstill said Haggard's admission that he received a massage from a gay man was enough grounds for the board to remove him.

At the same time, Stockstill said the board found discrepancies in Haggard's account. He did not go into detail.

"(Haggard) is not in touch with truth and reality, and he readily admitted that," Stockstill said.

A separate pastoral board, still being formed, will work further with Haggard to explore his sexual issues in more depth, Stockstill said.

well, off to rehab w/ mark foley for him, then

After being lambasted for years by the anti-family, pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, radical environmental left, Wal-Mart has finally succumbed to this constant harassment and blackmail. She has now chosen a policy of appeasement to assuage all of the false accusations leveled against her in hopes that the devil will somehow stop being so mean.

"is it backwards day?"

"yes. no. i mean, yes. i mean--"

Phrase it like that, and you'd have to remove half of anyone who's ever been to a day spa.

Additional weirdness: surely acknowledging the sin, evil, and temptation in the heart of man is appropriately religious already? INXS are good Calvinists, no reason to edit their work.

yeah, but remember how these guys work; acknowledging something they don't approve of without condemning it is identical to zealously advocating it, which is why talking about gay people or having a gay character on your tv show is akin to promoting the radical homosexual agenda.

Oh yeah, and that you should hire "heterosexual male assistants" to defend your priestly body from temptations of the world.

and all this is best described by Jon Swift, in an essay entitled "Ted Haggard Shows the Virtue of Hypocrisy"

He sat in on a conference call w/ Bush and other Evangelical leaders every Monday. He was in no way Bush's "top spiritual advisor," and despite the calls and meeting him in person, hardly influential at all in the Whilte House's policy making. He was more or less used in turning out the Evangelical vote. Its not like he was hooking Cheney up with meth and giving Bush BJ's.

I saw Jesus Camp this weekend and CAN NOT BELIEVE it isn't getting name-checked in every story about Haggard seing as though he's seen preaching a sermon on homosexuality in it.

not on a weekly basis, at least

That Driscoll entry gets pretty nuts in places, but for a man of the cloth to impose ragulations on himself such as "dont be alone with women" isn't any different from rules about High School teachers not giving rides home to students.

Not hysteria so much as being smart about the position you're in, and the potential for something fucked up to go down.

oh i know & understand that bit. It's the same doctrine that Billy Graham follows. There's just something about the guy specifying "male heterosexual assistants" that makes him sound like he need to be tailed by two strong, young bucks at all times.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. High school teachers aren't supposed to give rides home to students mostly because they have no good reason to fraternize with students outside of their work. (Also because the students are minors over whom teachers have extensive power.) For a man of the cloth to impose regulations on himself such as "don't be alone with women" would be more like ... a male teacher who tutors boys after school, but refuses to meet with a girl during study hall to discuss her grade.

agreed.

fwiw, my father has been a (much more moderate) Evangelical minister for 25 years and has never been alone with a woman who wasn't his secretary or someone in his family. I've never asked him, but I think he imposed that after the Swaggert thing.

(Please spare me the jokes about if my mom puts out.)

Nabisco, i suppose "alone" would be defined as "no one else is present, on the premesis, or witnessing our engaging with eachother." My father meets in private with female members of his congregation to discuss things, but someone always knows about it and sees the visitor come and go. Its not OMG MUST CONTROLL PENIS so much as realizing that you're somewhat vulnerable in a position like that.

(just a general comment, not following any discussion here)

P.S. You know what else helps with avoiding that kind of impropriety is if women can't leave the house at all unless accompanied by a male relative! Also if they wear veils and loose-fitting robes you won't be tempted by noticing that they look better than your old fat wife, who's really "let herself go."

- Betty Bowers, "America's Best Christian."

http://www.bettybowers.com/nl_nov2006.html

(The problem with things like "this" and Foley, though, is that it just cements the link in people's mind between homosexuality and secret sordid activity like drug use, soliciting minors, and prostitution; it doesn't seem to register that suppression of homosexuality might be a major part of how people end up in those situations.)

NEW LIFE NOW
1. A New Page in the New Life Story
2. Wonderland
3. Thou Shalt Laugh Comedy Night

yeah, that's the bit that other folks have talked about, and i might have even mentioned. That the hilariosly negative view these folks have about gay people, w/ all the pathological stereotypes & whatnot, is that the only gay people they ever come in contact with are those w/in their own midst who have had to repress so much for so long. Eventually they crack, and thus are evidence in some people's minds that gayes = teh evil.

Agreed.

i think the fact that bush had regular talks with a rabid YOUNG EARTH CREATIONIST is a lot more disturbing than any of this shit

Agreed!

Yeah, Grady, but like you say, that's an issue of deniability and ass-covering -- protecting yourself against accusation and slander -- rather than an issue of avoiding temptation.

You're half right. The other half is the fact that there are people who are drawn to those in a leadership position, be it a priest, minister, CEO, president, whatevs. People who actually wish to engage in some kind of behavior innapropriate of someone in that kind of role, NOT just make false accuations that are impossible to disprove. And when you're in that position, it can catch you off guard and you can fuck up. Again, we agree on Driscoll going way too far in this direction and placing blame on spouses who "let themselves go." My initial point was just that being aware of the potential for both slander AND tempation (not the kind of OMG I HOPE THAT HOT LADY IN THE 2nd PEW STOPS IN TODAY temptation, more the kind that can catch someone off-guard) is very real. I was just getting a little bothered that the sentiment was "hahaha xians r afraid sexx lolz."

If Haggard's unblinking congregation could sit and listen to such a liturgical Liberace week after week and not realize they were in the presence of someone who makes Barry Manilow in a full-length mink look butch, they really need to recalibrate their ability to detect prescription-strength doses of flamboyance.

OTM x100,000,000,000. In Jesus Camp he speaks of a life in Christ being FABULOUS. I swear I'm not making that up.

it just cements the link in people's mind between homosexuality and secret sordid activity

This is why i was unrealistically hoping Haggard could be a key person/symbol in changing the shape of homosexuality and religion in this country. Sadly, it will only reinforce cuurent views.

Well, the really unfortunate thing is that this country is full of well-adjusted gay couples who are Christians, and yet the evangelicals' rhetoric ensures that they'll never come into contact with them. (This would seem to be by design, actually: I assume the fear is that sharing anything with gay people -- trying to acknowledge common values at all -- will lead to GOD FORBID noticing that they tend to be decent human beings like anyone else.) The only way you can get that kind of example you're talking about would be ... well, the fairly unrealistic scenario of an unmarried clergyman being discovered as having a secret committed gay partner and raising adopted children in blissful good-citizen happiness?

ding ding ding.