i love when ILX gets all chessed out (ILX hot chess action is here)

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I am so bad at endgames. Sigh.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 21 March 2005 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link

And, I guess, beginning and middle games. My playing is shot to hell today! I blame lack of coffee. I will go off and sob now.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Ken is beating me in the rematch now :(

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:13 (nineteen years ago) link

schoolboy error has cost me my queen against ambrose but there's still everything to play for

can't think fast enough for greg OR ken tho :(

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Someone needs to take Ken down.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:23 (nineteen years ago) link

You're still a pawn up! THE LAST HOPE

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I may be up a pawn, but Ken's pawn is much closer to blossoming into full-blown queenhood. And it's all my fault for a dumb move made earlier today.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I WAS UP A ROOK, DO YOU SEE?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Monday, 21 March 2005 23:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Has anyone had problems with getting notify emails, and the like? I'm playing with a co-worker at the moment (and I think we're about 2 moves from the end), but it took days for her to get an email notifying her it was her go after I played, and the board still remained saying it was my turn, despite my having moved - and now she's moved, it's still saying it's her go - it's getting really frustrating! This hasn't happened with any ILx games tho...

starryschessclub :)

― Lucretia My Reflection (Lucretia My Reflection), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:35 (nineteen years ago) link

cozen has fallen for the queen trick too!

i must have a way with the ladies....*

*er no i dont

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:39 (nineteen years ago) link

don't count yr blessings until they've hatched leeds boy!

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:16 (nineteen years ago) link

ah fuck! "don't post yr posts until you've check yr redhotpawn aberdeen boy." I demand a remove! I only made tht move whilst in the giddy throes of flirtation! a girl influenced my chess!

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I am on as captainzep. I'm very bad at chess, so if anyone wants some target practice...

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:33 (nineteen years ago) link

the list of premature queen deaths:

stevem
cozen
starry

if only the queen was the king! er.....

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:40 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't believe I am a moron.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:41 (nineteen years ago) link

haha so far I have avoided this by leaving my queen completely exposed. (This slow-playing setup is interesting, at least for a relative newb like myself. By the time I'm a couple days into a game, I've learned more than I knew at the start so my earlier moves seem wack. I've realized that my whole formation in the game with ambrose is totally counter-intuitive!)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Does the queen trick involve making your opponent scurry unattacked pieces off to safety or something?

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link

juggle- 'stry 43b!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I have squandered.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 18:00 (nineteen years ago) link

Gravel... you must... avenge me..... [resigns]

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link

i can't believe i won that game!! at one point i was totally down and out.

This makes it 12-0!!! I'm like The Undertaker!

I think this is an omen that someone's going to break the winning streak soon (a la Randy Orton at the forthcoming Wrestlemania...)

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh for fuck's sake. I just screwed up royally with Julia. I warned you I was no good at this game!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 18:56 (nineteen years ago) link

we should talk...

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 19:01 (nineteen years ago) link

sundar you have a formation?????

i am so screwed

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 19:28 (nineteen years ago) link

OK, here is the Problem with chess: The Problem with chess is that it is so difficult to get past the point of making tactical errors (or even just ridiculous errors like I just made with Julia) that it is difficult to get to the point where you can really enjoy the stategery, which is, I suspect, where the true deliciousness of the game lies.

Another way of putting it is that, until (I assume) you reach a certain level, it often feels as if you lose because of a mistake rather than because of choices you've made. (Although perhaps they still feel like mistakes, even at that level?)

(The Problem with go is that it takes a zillion games before you even begin to have a sense of how the pieces work. It doesn't take quite as long in chess to stop flailing around pointlessly as much.)

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 19:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not sure that that's quite true! There's a Go proverb, "lose your first fifty games as quickly as possible" - I reckon after those fifty you can pretty much "play go" in a sane if unimaginative way. That doesn't seem much more or less than chess, really, which has a steeper learning curve if you start from not-knowing-how-the-pieces work...

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 20:00 (nineteen years ago) link

I think the actual difference is closer to: in chess it takes longer to stop making mistakes that a beginner could say "well, that was a mistake", about?

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 20:02 (nineteen years ago) link

The problem of not remember how a bishop moves is very different from the metaphysical terror of not knowing the meaning of a stone played in any particular spot. In chess, a few simple heuristics (control the center, know the "values" of the pieces, maybe "don't move a pawn forward without a good reason") will get your game up to non-embarrassing levels, and only after that do you start worrying about "how should pawns be used". Perhaps there are simple heuristcis in go as well, but go seems to be all about seeing the implications of your moves, even at beginning levels, whereas beginning (1100-1400) chess players don't need to worry about that as much.

But then I'm still working through my fabled first 50 games of go. I beat the GNU go last night with a 7x7 board and 2 starter pieces, so I felt a bit proud of that. Then I tried it again and it smote me.

By saying there is a "Problem" with either game I am not saying they are bad games. The actual Problem with chess is that it has been analysed to death, and I suspect Fischer Random Chess is the better game. But I haven't played it yet (or, I always play as if I'm playing it).

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 20:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, I'm being disingenuous to an extent. The real equivalent of "knowing how the pieces move and a few simple heuristucs" is maybe "knowing how stones connect", for which there are actually pretty good heuristics (one-space jump is connected unless they have overwhelming local strength, knight's move is connected if you have one other useful local stone or access to an edge, etc etc).

Games are so great.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:20 (nineteen years ago) link

(7x7 with 2 stones is impressive!)

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:23 (nineteen years ago) link

stevem vs julia is around 35 moves now after a week of play with only about five pieces taken

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Too many exceptions, Mr. Puzzleworth!

(7x7 with 2 stones is impressive!)

I guess so. I tend to lose by 10 points or so with no handicap stones, though. And it won't let me take just 1 handicap stone.

I have already resigned in my Ken rematch. Dude fucking blitzkreiged me.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:28 (nineteen years ago) link

i know, it's a kinda crazy game, stevem. i'm enjoying it though.

i just got checkmated by chris p! i totally overlooked an obvious mistake, and was way way too fixated on this one checkmate possibility i would have had if i could have only gotten him to move his one rook.

i suck at chess. but it's fun.

― JuliaA (j_bdules), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Ooo, Ken might have let me back into our game, sortamaybe!

One handicap stone doesn't really have any meaning - it'd actually be a disadvantage, moving first but having no choice where to put the stone? Small advantages are generally done with point bonuses (or lack of the normal one).

You are maybe right, about exceptions. I should revise.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Julia's rather severe checkmate threat hung over my head for much of that game. Everything I did was in terms of "well, can I still get out of her checkmate plan?" It was pretty great/annoying!

I beat the 7x7 with no handicap stones, at last. The game, on the small scale, is starting to fill me with less dread.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

and they say the interweb is full of geeks ;)

i would join in but:

a. i are SHOCKING at chess
b. i worry about the drain on my time
c. accessing redhotpawn at work...

― CarsmileSteve (CarsmileSteve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:46 (nineteen years ago) link

(I finally realized what you meant about the 1-stone thing, GP. D'oh.)

― Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:47 (nineteen years ago) link

resistance is futile, greg!

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 23:50 (nineteen years ago) link

I'LL NEVER SURRENDER

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:02 (nineteen years ago) link

Am I blind? Why would GP give up? Get him! Get him!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:06 (nineteen years ago) link

And by "get him" I mean "draw".

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Ken has beaten me at the death. He is a TOYIN' CAT. I have nothing, nothing.

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh, wait, now I see. See, I told you I'm bad at endgames.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:11 (nineteen years ago) link

everyone's ignoring captainzep who is basically going to win

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:12 (nineteen years ago) link

All you need to do is survive 50 moves!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:12 (nineteen years ago) link

My only tactic is attrition

― The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Everyone is always winning until Ken's ENDGAME OF STEEL, though!

― Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:15 (nineteen years ago) link

what is this 50 moves thing????

― ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:18 (nineteen years ago) link

He is the Comeback Kid! But with knives!

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Ken: 50 moves with no capture (and no pawn move) = automatic draw. Unless I'm misremembering.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 00:19 (nineteen years ago) link

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