Linn LM-1 or DMX drum machine in 777-9311 by Morris Day and the Time

I have just listened to and played around with my sound file of the DMX snare. After compressing it, adding a reverb, then gating it, it began to sound rather similar, I must say. I am still not entirely convinced. It's as if there's a harsh, metallic quality to the sound on the record which still wasn't quite there on the sound I have, although it was 10 times less 'woody' and mellow than the untreated sound (ie before I messed with it). But I might have to revise my opinion. One other possibility is that they could have mixed two snares together.

The other thing that's swaying me towards your line of thinking is I think the kick does sound DMX-ish (notice I referred only to the snare in my original comment).

But I still stand by my claim that there is nothing in the programming which gives away that it was *sequenced* on a DMX. If anything it sounds a bit 'computerish' (slightly floppy timing).

ha, the first thing i did when i got home today was work out 777-9311 on drums.

Now tell me this is NOT a DMX drum machine being used in this song.

just listen to the transistion between 1:34 and 1:37 and tell me that that is not a DMX cymbal being used.

...the debate behind the production of Rapper's Delight...

― be much inadequate one! (PappaWheelie V), Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:27 PM Bookmark

link?

Every song ever is a DMX, especially Love Come Down, but especially 777-9311.

x-post

Rev, I don't know, that short lived Rapper's Delight debate was another deviated thread from like 3+ years back.

Although Rev, you can find some thoughts much later at the OSHH board, where Jayquan, myself, and a few others deconstruct it:

http://oldschoolhiphop.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~16327.asp

This indeed may prove that kashif used the DMX in this album

That's Evelyn Champagne King "Betcha She Don't love you"

A longer version of "Betcha She don't love you"

It has the drum solo in the beginning.

I dug this thread up tonight after by chance listening to 1983 Midnight Star and noticing a softer touch DMX being used...which made me think of this thread and my over-the-top argument.

I'd bet money Startrekman that you are right in taking on my sidebar argument to prove Love Come Down et al uses a buried DMX, although I think our (all posters) collective derailing drew attention away from your initial point:

People keep saying it was the linn LM-1 but i know for a fact it was an Oberheim DMX drum machine.

This statement is as over-the-top as anything I've said about the non-use of the DMX before Davy D's use (which is Rap-centric, and still debatable within that context).

Although I stand by the idea that drum machines' sequencers have a feel that's as important as the drum sounds, dubmill made the best point on this, which is, often in early 80s (non-rap), they're buried, therefore difficult to feel. Kashif and company are the prime candidates for this, thus, heated debate.

So after all that, I'm listening closer to these songs, and wondering what's your verdict on 777-9311?

I still say Linn.

but i know for a fact it was an Oberheim DMX drum machine

What a ridiculous video. What is the point of learning, parrot fashion, how to play on a drum kit a beat that was made decades ago on a drum machine? And as for how his finished version sounds, firstly the hihat work sounds like crap; secondly the original beat on the record relies on the hand claps holding the other syncopated elements together, so, without that, his finished version sounds like an ugly mess.

welcome to the world of Roland Vdrums

I have listened to this song somewhere in the neighborhood of a dozen times today and it isn't enough.

There are two things wrong with that video

First: He said "777-3911" came out in the MID to LATE 1980s, MID TO LATE. If he is going to quote a song, learn when it came out. The song came out in 1981. That is the VERRRRY EARLY 1980s

Second: Like many people, he refers to the LM-1 as the LINN-DRUM. Do i have to say again, the LINNDRUM did not get released until 1982. The LINNDRUM was NOT used to make that song. The LM-1 possibly was but i personally still says it was a DMX but that was for another discussion.

Never change, The Startrekman

missed u the startrekman

Bringing back a past post.

I listened to 777-9311 and I am slowly beginning to realize it may and i remphasize it MAY be a Linn LM-1. It sounds to me that the cymbals were played live.

The Linn cymbals and the high-hat sounds kind of artificial. I can't tell you what it is that tells me this but the cymbals from the Linn just sound artificial. The Cymbals and high-hat in the song sound like there being played randomly and not played from a programmed pattern.

I still say 777-9311 MAY be a DMX. Remphazie MAY be a DMX.

and to whoever said the Grandmaster Flash is a Linn LM-1 drum. I have to tell you. It was not. Before 1982, The LM-1 was not even widely available. The producers of that song could in NO WAY afford an LM-1. LM-1's were about 5,000$$ a piece.

The New York rap producers at the time could nary even rent one of those things let alone be able to buy one. At best, The biggest rap producers before 1982 could at best afford an 808 or a DMX. The DMX was the only thing closes to a digital drum machine that rap producers could afford if they could afford one at all. "The Message" is DMX all the way.

the hi-hat in 777-9311 is just not live. the pattern is exactly the same every time and way too consistent to be live. also, it does not sound live.

this is still the best beat btw

seriously dude, you seem to spend half your life obsessing over drum machines but you can't tell the difference between a programmed hi-hat pattern and a live one?!?!?!?!

Too all those who say the Oberheim DMX wasn't used before 1984

This video may or may not prove that wrong..

http://www.truveo.com/oberheim-dmx-classic-tracks-on-electribe-sampler/id/627479783

Among his tracks recreated is

Imagination-Body Talk which came out in 1982
Blue Monday which came out in 1983

lol

More proof the Oberheim DMX was used well before 1983..

Harlem Nights Music Recreates some of the old-school hip-hop beats that used the DMX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GflqqvEZ9Ag

You will hear in this recreation...SURPRISE! Grandmaster Flash "The Message"

this thread is peculiar.

Startrekman, the drums on 777-9311 are Linn LM1, not Oberheim DMX. When Marion 360 Systems took over manufacturing for Roger Linn (after the first 36 or so were built...by hand) they added, as an option, a cymbal.

You state in the first post "i know for a fact it was an Oberheim DMX drum machine." But in the last post you say:

"I listened to 777-9311 and I am slowly beginning to realize it may and i remphasize it MAY be a Linn LM-1."

then at the end you say

"I still say 777-9311 MAY be a DMX. Remphazie MAY be a DMX."

Well, which one is it?

Since this thread began, I have purchased a LM-2, aka LinnDrum, which has many of the same sounds (for instance, a better sample rate and new kickdrum) and very similar features to the LM-1 (not all sounds are tunable).

I say this bc on the LM-2, you can not only play the pads live (which Prince often did), but also quantize different sounds within the same pattern to different rates -- including no rate at all, which might explain why this cut *sounds* live.

the hi-hats are definitely quantized to 1/32. it's a testament to prince's skill as a musician that he managed to program such a complicated pattern (and different velocity levels!) on a real time sequencer. i've not used a linn drum, but i've tried on my dr-660 (which was designed by roger linn and features basically the same sequencer as the linn drum) to replicate this pattern but cannot come close. it's only slightly easier to attempt on a step sequencer!

i mean i guess he could've slowed the bpm right down when recording but still, hard

Naive Teen Idol,

I liked the Linn Drum too but it became dated very quickly since it was cheap and became popular real fast. Prince actually used it on Erotic City in place of the usual LM1 sounds. It's not always the equipment....It's sometimes the person using it. Simply put, Prince and his engineers can make any drum machine sound good.
The Linn Drum was sampled at 35K, the LM1 at 28K. The LM1 is below the Nyquist frequency, and the result is aliasing when you tune it up or down, resulting in that sizzle or ring that you hear on the handclaps or sidestick tuned real low. In my opinion, the LM1 was waaaaay better than the Linn Drum, just because you could tune any sound to any pitch and it would sound great. I can't say the same about the Linn Drum.

Rio,

I disagree with it being skill. All Linn machines have a repeat button...you set the quantize rate and it repeats at that rate. Harder with an LM1 than with my Linn 9000, but still do able.

With the 2nd snare hit of each measure, I believe he turned quantize off to achieve that off beat pattern. Actually sounds more like a mistake, but still very creative.

So i was looking on you tube how the hell he did that beat and found out something interesting with the linn lm-1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyFCy0DffZc

Yup -- LM-1 applies an envelope to a continuously running sample that varies as it plays. That means you get a different snapshot of the sample every time you trigger it. My LM-2 doesn't have that.

Roger Linn, hero:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Roger_Linn_%E2%80%9CDrum_Machines_Have_No_Soul%E2%80%9D.jpg

^_^

Roger Linn Shelved Products

Some good nerding out on this thread. Just to put it to rest, after Jam & Lewis talked about it a few years ago on Questlove's podcast and David Garibaldi confirmed it:

-It's definitely Linn LM-1

-David Garibaldi programmed the beat as a preset, which Prince based the song on.

ha, the first thing i did when i got home today was work out 777-9311 on drums.

― some know what you dude last summer (Jordan), Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:38 PM (thirteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

Lol, I do remember trying to figure it out but I probably wasn't playing it very well. Went back to it this week and it's a bit closer:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CdbCDpYFq_F/

nice playing

interesting idea to program a beat like that

23:30, more or less

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOapYnlQMNQ

Insane skills Jordan!

ty!

Prince performing "777-9311" with The Time in Paris back in 2011. @BartFunk pic.twitter.com/WnoCa45cvx

— Bass Magazine (@BassMagOnline) August 18, 2022

Prince performing 777-9311 with Prince

(cool though, I love that he was playing bass live)

Yeah, I noticed the lack of Time.

I saw him play "Kiss" once and for some reason he played lead slap bass instead of guitar.