classic Wu-Tang solo run poll

Meth > ODB > GZA > Ghost > Rae

i would say

rae > meth > odb > gza > ghost

it is pretty wild that the ghost is prolly gonna be the weakest link in this, but is still like monumentally dope

People really like Tical that much? Okay I guess.

Oh man I call myself a Wu Tang fan, love all of Ghostface's other albums, but have never heard Ironman. Also never heard Tical in its entirety IIRC and only recently got into the ODB thanks to a dude at work :/

^the first ODB solo joint that is

rae for sure

rae is the best rapper also imho

like all the recs but how is it anything but linx -- ghost is better on it than on ironman, and i feel like rae's flow has aged the best out of all the wu mcs. rza's pinnacle of production etc etc. but it's all about rae for me, never get tired of his voice or slang

i feel like linx is something i'll never appeciate as much as everyone else

i think rae built off the clipse's template as well as anyone could've hoped

Would rank them as follows:

Ol' Dirty Bastard - Return to the 36 Chambers: The Dirty Version
Ghostface Killah - Ironman
GZA - Liquid Swords
Raekwon - Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...

I've still never heard Tical

i feel like linx is something i'll never appeciate as much as everyone else

― interk3llar overdrive (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, October 13, 2010 1:38 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

same here

also despite some initial deliberation this is liquid swords & it's not like thaat close even, despite the others being great. just the best shit out there

GZA>Rae>>>Meth=Ghost>>>>>>ODB

fuck outta here with that >>>>>>ODB shit

I like Liquid Swords and Return to the 36 Chambers about equally, for entirely different reasons.

Liquid Swords is lean and ruthless; Return is a sprawling mess that is alternately horrifying and the most fun thing possible.

this is liquid swords

Choose the sword, and you will join me. Choose the ball, and you join your mother... in death. You don't understand my words, but you must choose...

GZA>Raekwon>Ghost>ODB>Meth

ODB album has the weakest beats and I just don't care for ODB's schtick

GZA > Rae > ODB > Ghost > Meth

liquid swords has some corny-ass proto-grocery bag similes

"lyrics is weak ... CLOCK RADIO SPEAKERS"

rae & ghost were totally w/in character the whole time, way more visceral record, and tical never has meth saying "scriptures hit the body like sawed of shottys / like my hair knotty and my nosepiece snotty"

"lyrics is weak ... CLOCK RADIO SPEAKERS"

he says "like" in between there, come on son

pretty sure it says lyrics are weak LIKE clock radio speakers lol xpost

agreed that rae and ghost def have the best rapping, but meth and odb got the better beats imo

yeah obv -- thats why i said 'proto-'
its a simile that doesnt really add anything to the street vibe hes trying to convey

i dont think theres a better beat on any record than 'incarcertaed scarfaces' or that one that samples black ivory

tical the one i jam the most now. kinda feel like liquid swords has aged the worst outta these

is cuban linx the boring pick? that's what i'm voting for anyway

pretty sure liquid swords is the boring pick

not that i don't still like it, but the more i get into rap the worse it sounds in comparison to everything else

i dont think theres a better beat on any record than 'incarcertaed scarfaces' or that one that samples black ivory

on these records alone, i would posit "Bring The Pain," "Daytona 500," "Brooklyn Zoo," "Liquid Swords," "Duel Of The Iron Mic"...

i guess sub-question would be what;s yr fave song on any of these records...

Mine would be like a five-way tie between "Bring The Pain," "Daytona 500," "Liquid Swords," "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" and the one where ODB fucks the teacher of his oral sex class

yeah obv -- thats why i said 'proto-'
its a simile that doesnt really add anything to the street vibe hes trying to convey

Since when was Liquid Swords about "the street vibe"? "Liquid Swords" (the song) especially is all about imaginative metaphors and similies, and IMO "lyrics is weak like clock radio speakers" is a fine example of that.

i think deej's point is that it's more awkward than imaginative, but i always liked GZA's outre lyrical curveballs--"feminine like sandals," etc

I don't see how it's awkward... Instead of using some stereotypical example of weakness he comes up with a totally unexpected yet instantly understandable simile. To me that's pretty imaginative.

i get where deej is coming from... just like grocery bag stuff, it doesnt really add anything. it's just a random example of 'weak'

Aren't all similes random, when you think about it? And why should they "add" something? What is it that they're supposed to add?

Meth's album is weakest to me. The beats don't cut it.

i think GZA is really saying rapping is where he's a viking

Raekwon > GZA > ODB > Ghostface Killah > Meth

Aren't all similes random, when you think about it? And why should they "add" something? What is it that they're supposed to add?

― Tuomas, Wednesday, October 13, 2010 8:01 AM (34 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

rappers are inhabiting a persona, and while GZA is one second rapping about "life of a drug dealer!!" apparently hes a drug dealer who spent his crack rock cash on a shitty clock radio.

i mean, i still like the album. like whiney said a lot of that stuff, esp 'feminine like sandals!!!' is still charming in its way. but yeah GZA's style is super dated sounding relative to the rest (which makes sense, hes the oldest dude in the clan right?)

slow down there, souljah boy

no h in soulja boy fyi

Aren't all similes random, when you think about it?

No; when you think about similes, you come to the inescapable conclusion that a well-formed simile is not random.

lol

Tical > Return > Liquid > Linx > Ironman

Linx is overlong and has the second least imaginative production.

also I agree w/deej that "lyrics is weak like clock radio speakers" is a lame simile but from a sonics-only reading -- poetry being 1/2 meaning and 1/2 sound & GZA being a guy who is pretty into the sounds of words -- "lyrics is weak like clock radio speakers" is pretty gorgeous

yeah that's one of the best-sounding verses on the album imo despite all goofy similes

yes but what people like you fail to grasp is that an artist/album can be liked for reasons other than the one that has been most discussed by music critics, reasons that don't paint the person in the most negative light so you can look down on them from your perch of awesome pure hip hop dopeness.

― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Wednesday, November 10, 2010 2:08 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i dont fail to grasp this. doesnt mean these results arent corny.

well then that's worse. you grasp it, but you still cast aspersions as if you didn't. and i can only assume you do that so you can feel better about yourself as some hip happening dude in comparison. kinda pathetic.

yeah i must be the first person ever to accuse someone's taste of being 'corny' on ilm!

in case u havent noticed, its the aggregate results that are corny, im not calling out individuals who love gza for making a wu tang juice crew record or something

everyone in this argument is gonna come out of it looking awesome.

if i could only point out douchiness when it was the first instance of that particular strain of douchines, i'd never get a chance to.

yeah i must be the first person ever to accuse someone's taste of being 'corny' on ilm!

― deej, Wednesday, November 10, 2010

maybe?

Hey, No Offense, But All Your Blogs Bite It

What he does offer is fire.

lol omar

v. confusing dates on that thread ?_?

look i think it's pretty clear that those posts were made during that last innocent summer, before the world as we knew it changed.

Okay, as I posted upthread, I voted GZA, and I fall squarely into the NME reading circa '95 corny indie fuxor demographic. I love all 5 of these albums, and the reason I voted GZA was as follows:
1) RZA's production- weird plinky casio keyboard beats, RZA before he lapsed into self parody
2) Great GZA lyrics (but this has been done to death)
3) Cameos from other members of the Wu at the top of their games
4) Samples: even compared to Cuban Linx, the kung fu movie samples take it to another level, and make the album a coherent whole
5) "In Bristol, with a fuckin' pistol" I first heard this record when living in Bristol and that line made it for me

Having said all this, on another day I could have voted for Cuban Linx (probably the Wu record I've listened to most, even though it tails off towards the end) or Return (though Nigga Please is its rival IMO). Tical and Ironman are both great, but don't rival those 3.

Also, 36 Chambers will always be my favourite Wu record.

MY LABORATORY STORY KEEP ME FLOWIN' WITH THE GLORY
A CAPELLA OR DEEP DIRTY INSTRUMENTAL
I COULD BLOW THE SKY (NO HOMO?) LIKE THE STORMY WIND BLEW
ONE GALLON OF WHYLIN', PARK HILL PROFILIN'
I CUT YOUR FACE UP ROUGH LIKE FIFTY SURE WHILE YOU'RE SMILIN'

supreme clientele has the best vocal samples imo, "my god so they are killers"

deej, I didn't mean your original point was a derail but the way the argument went on and on and on, in increasingly acrimonious and pedantic fashion, dominated the thread for a couple of days - "potentially interesting bogged down by butturtedness" as you put it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTPB9inzOPU

THEN I DRINK FORTIES TO THEY MEMORIES

this thread is kinda the best thing that could have happened to my week I gotta say

had the beat to '4th chamber' stuck in my head on my way home from work cuz of this thread. also, was reminded of when someone compared the 'labels' beat to sounding like a sock full of doorknobs to the head. i always liked that

SONS ARE BORN AND GUNS ARE DRAWN
CLIPS ARE FULLY LOADED, AND THEN BLOOD FLOODS THE LAWN

a construction worker, who was caught for his bomber
no time to swing the hammer that was hangin' from his farmers

(perennially stuck in my head)

man Liquid Swords is totally backloaded, all the best songs are in the second half

this thread will be glad to know that I FINALLY bought Return to the 36 Chambers today thanks to all of you (they didn't have Liquid Swords or Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...)

holy shit I'd forgotten that this is fucking amazing

the holy ghost got you scared to death kid boo

that album is deep, if it weren't for my corny love for liquid swords I totally would've voted for it

the bonus tracks are so good it's hard to imagine the album without them

yell at 4:50 is incredible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlsE2Pz-AoE

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/atlarge/2010/12/06/101206crat_atlarge_sanneh?currentPage=4

Another great American lyricist has just published a book of his own: “Finishing the Hat” (Knopf; $39.95), by Stephen Sondheim, is curiously similar in form to “Decoded.” Sondheim is just as appealing a narrator as Jay-Z, although he’s much less polite. (While Jay-Z has almost nothing bad to say about his fellow-rappers, Sondheim is quick to disparage his rivals, subject to a “cowardly but simple” precept: “criticize only the dead.”) But where Jay-Z wants to help readers see the poetry in hip-hop, Sondheim thinks poeticism can be a problem: in his discussion of “Tonight,” from “West Side Story,” he half apologizes for the song’s “lapses into ‘poetry.’ ” And where Bradley and DuBois are quick to praise rappers for using trick rhymes and big words, Sondheim is ever on guard against “overrhyming” and other instances of unwarranted cleverness. “In theatrical fact,” he writes, “it is usually the plainer and flatter lyric that soars poetically when infused with music.” Most rappers are no less pragmatic: they use the language that works, which is sometimes ornate, but more often plainspoken, even homely. (One thinks of Webbie, the pride of Baton Rouge, deftly rhyming “drunk as a fuckin’ rhino” with “my people gon’ get they shine on.”) Maybe future anthologies will help show why the most complicated hip-hop lyrics aren’t always the most successful.

am considering undertaking something of an academic exploration into ALL of the Wu solo albums (jesus there are a lot) and seeing what few undiscovered/underrated gems there are

U-God albums, how bad are they

i would read that tumblr

well first up: Cappadonna's the Pillage. This is 1/3rd of a decent record, the majority of it is pointless and at least one track (Young Heart) is outright terrible. The dude just doesn't have enough personality and wit to make a decent solo record. He has no ear for lyrical hooks, his flow is monotonous and kinda clumsy... half the time it sounds like he's just stringing random catchphrases together. Unsurprisingly, the handful of gems on here are the cuts with other Wu members, and the single (Milk the Cow) was the only one where Cappa came up with a decent hook for the chorus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cqwIfllkDs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g53nActB9c0
Ghost kills this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T23A61CBivo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGKH0JFBzw
one of the better beats, and probably the only song on the album that Cappa really carries all by himself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32n_21HSp3c
Meth puts Cappa to shame on this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhbYpZepYSQ
and the album closer, which sounds like it could've been a great song if RZA and Ghost had made the effort to actually finish it instead of just letting it run on and on for 2 extra minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88jCMNxr6Ac

huh this GZA/Muggs record is way better than I would have expected

That got pretty good reviews at the time iirc although i've never heard it

I haven't heard anything Muggs has done since like '99 or something so I dunno if he's just aping RZA on it or if this is what he sounds like now (or did in 2005 anyway). but yeah it's solid. I'll post about it more tomorrow

the nfl track is CHEEZY

but the rest of it is good

i actually bought Pillage when I went through my "buy every Wu-Tang affiliated release I don't currently own, no matter how minute or pointless" phase last year. Never even got through one listen. ZzzzZzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I like the first Inspectah Deck solo album tho

first u-god album is underrated imo

I even bought that GZA "Pro Tools" one ....kinda meh, tho mostly due to the production.

"I like the first Inspectah Deck solo album tho"

Yeah, thats a cool lp. Inspectah is great throughout. Always loved the horribly schmoopy hook on the title track, good memories trying to sing like that fool. I sing that hook to my kid on occasion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee2NrhXEGWs

R.E.C. Room is a classic Wu banger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzDxg5psp9o

Muggs Gza album was kinda cool at the time but doesnt have any staying power. Pro Tools is boring. I bought Pillage back when, like 25% good iirc.

this is classic solo deck from 95

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs60xcgJZzo

quite aggy, this one

bob digi album is best post classic era solo lp in my humble opinion. fuck what you think, daily routine, mantis holocaust terrorist domestic violence all sick

That one had the odd good track a cool cover, but I don't think RZA's rapping can carry a whole album.

there are some decent tracks on the first u god album

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmek6pR7jO4

This is great (but it's on one of the Chronicles too):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31naoRYXHK4

the nfl track is CHEEZY

yeah was gonna come here to say that there are def some low points, the labored sex-as-football rhymes being the worst. in general it's pretty consistent. his rhyme style is so clinical and dry it can get kinda boring, his tunes really live or die on the strength of the storytelling imho. these are the ones I thought were standouts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQPJUV3n6Ss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk4RTJzmlgo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-7g03iM3tU&feature=related
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BudaSqOZpkE&feature=related

y'know, Immobilarity is really not that bad

this thread has some amazing posts