Rolling US Economy Into The Shitbin Thread

TSX 7,724.80 -9.02%

http://i33.tinypic.com/vr34g9.jpg

imagining those guys yelling SHOW ME THE MONEY at nancy pelosi cuba gooding jr style is way funnier than the original

i bought more berkshire

― bnw, Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:59 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

only thing abt this is warren buffet is really old

so is your mom

a dude i know on another MB compiled a list of companies that lost 80% or more in the last 12 months.

many of them wont make it but invest in the right ones and you will eventually make some $$

Ford
General Motors
Citigroup
CBS Broadcasting
Morgan Stanley
MGM Mirage
Merrill Lynch
US Steel
Alcoa
Sirius Radio
Sprint Nextel
Motorola
Expedia
Macy's
United Airlines
Reliant Energy
Abercrombie
Office Depot
Cigna
Sun Microsystems

gallows lolz but lol @ abercrombie

US Steel
Alcoa
Sprint Nextel
Expedia
MGM Mirage
Sun Microsystems
Citigroup

^^^^ I like these

guess i better use this macys gift card soon huh

OMG WE RE FOOKED

http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/11/19/there-is-now-little-doubt/

Seriously, all you need is this thread. Fuck Roubini and his minions. Tombot rulez.

I think Apple's a good buy too.

ford is @ 1.39 and GM is at 2.33!

I think Apple's a good buy too.

― Dandy Don Weiner, Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:08 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

agreed
http://www.autolife.umd.umich.edu/Design/Gartman/D_Casestudy/ID74271_2_depression_apples.gif

alcoa ain't goin anywhere

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=8f2815fac3f186b2_landing

Young boys haggling w. a vendor on the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic Aves., trading apples for his chesnuts.
Location: Brooklyn, NY, US
Date taken: October 04, 1887
Photographer: Wallace G. Levison

Obama Team Said to Explore `Prepack' Auto Bankruptcy
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aRfqFMhlj5lk&

This is an interesting article - argues persuasively for higher gasoline taxes in the US:

Detroit bail-out: a nation in denial
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d09dfebe-b729-11dd-8e01-0000779fd18c.html

I think there should at least be a floor on prices - say $2.25

Obama told CBS News's "60 Minutes" on Nov. 16 that government aid to automakers might come in the form of a "bridge loan," advanced if the industry could draw up plan to make itself "sustainable."

See now, that's a fine word, one with a lot of non-business uses. It looks like <a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/244487.php";>John Marshall</a> might be happy after all - maybe the US car industry won't move away from gas without a gun to their head, but if you've got a gun, and you've got their head...

I think that a price floor would be a good start, and might be more politically palatable than an outright tax increase. Over time the floor could rise. It's interesting to me that democracies in Europe can somehow maintain political support for gas taxes that appear politically impossible in the US. I guess it has something to do with America's historical love affair with cars - but don't Germans love their cars too?

Comparison of gas prices in some European countries and US, going back to '96:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html

I think it's more to do with Americans seeing any kind of tax as somehow illegitimate.

I guess so, but there hasn't been any hue and cry over punitive cigarette taxes, for instance. Maybe it just requires convincing Americans that there is a moral issue involve (ie., What Would Jesus Drive?)

okay this is a very late comment but you could not convince me to put even a penny into Expedia

The average car in the United States travels 50 percent more per year than a car in Germany

I don't understand how we went from "no taxation without representation" to "no taxation". I kind of want to tell all these no taxes people to form their own damn country and see how far it gets without taxes.

smoking is not a practical necessity, and fewer than 1 in 4 americans do it

and most recognize it isn't good for them

smoking is not a practical necessity, and fewer than 1 in 4 americans do it

Ding ding ding. There's a big difference between asking Americans to make a personal sacrifice, and asking them to help tax their fellow citizens into better behavior. The trick might be crafting a tax that only targets the worst offenders - like young, single people who drive Hummers - but leaves alone the family of 7 that needs a Suburban to transport their brood to church on Sunday.

which is exactly what a fuel-tax does.

I think it's more to do with Americans seeing any kind of tax as somehow illegitimate.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, November 21, 2008 11:34 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

That's how this whole America thing got started!!

I think it's more to do with Americans seeing any kind of tax as somehow illegitimate.

― Tracer Hand, Friday, November 21, 2008 11:34 AM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark

That's how this whole America thing got started!!

I don't understand how we went from "no taxation without representation" to "no taxation". I kind of want to tell all these no taxes people to form their own damn country and see how far it gets without taxes.

― Black Seinfeld (HI DERE), Friday, November 21, 2008 11:43 AM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark

Cos the oligarchy that weilds the most money has the most representation. And it is the super-wealthy companies which are directly befitting from us giving out tax-fueled bailouts. I think of it as more "no taxation without equal representation".

And nowadays Joe Sickpack is being told "These illegals are using your taxes for their own good" while simultaneously being told "These corporations are using your taxes for your own good". And at the base of it, other people using your tax money without asking you is mostly conceived as a bad thing.

hah "Sickpack"

which is exactly what a fuel-tax does

How so? Wouldn't the single Hummer drive and the family of 7 with the Suburban both suffer the same from higher gas prices?

Actually the single Hummer driver would suffer less because his vehicle would only be used to visit strip clubs and football games.

itll take more than a single hummer to get a family of 7

The solo Hummer driver would be paying more to shift his arse a mile than it would cost to shift each of the 7 arses in the suburban, besides there are more efficient ways of shifting 7 people around than a suburban they just exist predominantly in Europe and Japan. The British card market is dominated by Renault Scenics, Citroen Picassos, Ford C-Maxes, and Vauxhall (GM) Zafiras.

Yeah, but of those 7 people, at most 2 are adults with jobs. And with that many kids, it's more likely Mom stays at home. So the number of incomes is the same.

I suppose it might work to combine a gas tax with a transportation tax credit per dependent. So you raise gas taxes by $3 a gallon, but then the revenue from the tax is divided equally per person and given back in the form a tax credit per person and dependent when you file your taxes. You could jigger the formula a bit (say 80% of the revenue is given back, the rest is put into alternative energy research - and maybe dependents under 12 only count as 0.5 adults for tax credit purposes (since presumably they don't need to drive as much)).

That family is still choosing to drive a suburban rather than something more efficient, largely becuse the US auto industry has convinced them they need to shift a couple of tons of steel round with them. If they were able to buy say a Ford S-Max (also a 7 seater) they could get 29.8 mpg (US) urban 45.2mpg (US) highway. The point is that if fuel taxes were higher people would be offered cars to suit that are already being made, by US companies, in other countries.

I agree with you there. And even with the offsetting tax credit, there would still be a strong incentive for the family to buy a more fuel-efficient vehicle, since the tax credit isn't based on how much you spend on gas, but simply on the number of people you need to transport.

Btw I am missing the whole "gas taxes" thing and I can't find it anywhere on the thread. How did this come up in the first place?

Um, I think I'm probably guilty of that. Though I don't think it's totally unrelated to the topic at hand, since we were talking about Detroit's problems, which in part stem from the fact that they have to market one set of vehicles to the low-gas-prices market in the US, and a different set in Europe and other markets.

They should just finally release the car that can run on a teaspoon of water. Everybody knows they have it.

who killed the electric car it was me i confess

let's have a floor on gas prices. And a ceiling on income. And a calorie restriction on pizza. And a ceiling on the hourly rate for lawyers, while we're at it.

I am weary of punishing the market at the pump in order to fix this. First of all it puts the responsibility on the consuming public rather than the producers. I think one of the main reasons why gas guzzlers have been so successful is because they are perfect status symbols -- they are big, flashy, expensive, in music videos, etc. and the fact that they are so costly I think adds a tremendous amount to their appeal. Particularly in a culture which worships material wealth and unyieldingly idolizes the wealthy class.

Frankly I don't think the public is in a poor position to act rationally when making consumer choices. They/we are consistently bombarded by programming on a number of analogous levels that affect the choices we make and this infuses the act of purchasing with a distracting emotionality. The industry has a huge advantage over consumers in this matter and now that this has backfired they need to pay the price.

Oops I mean "Frank I do think" in the second sentence. Crap, shoulda proofread..

who is Frank

http://www.theneitherworld.com/us/castleforrester/mst3k/ptqe.jpg

front cover of my paper today:

R.I. unemployment rate climbs to 9.3%
By Lynn Arditi

Rhode Island’s unemployment rate last month climbed to 9.3 percent, the highest since 1983, as job cuts in the private and public sectors coursed through nearly every part of the economy, a government report released today shows.

Factories, offices and retail stores, among others, slashed payrolls in October, eliminating 2,400 jobs, according to the Rhode Island Department of Labor and Training. The ranks of the unemployed last month swelled to nearly 53,000, the highest on record.

Rhode Island’s October unemployment rate is identical to that of Michigan, where Detroit’s Big Three automakers this week pleaded for American taxpayers to help their industry as prospects of receiving federal rescue aid dimmed.