slint -- _spiderland_: classic or dud

In a time where bands were either doing clones of early Butthole Surfers, still trying to be hardcore as fuk, trying to move to the Northwest, or trying to morph something new into the Husker Du model-- this record shows up. It just wasn't like anything else.

It is the only record from "1991" that I still find myself pulling out of the stacks.

basically they came out with a way of doing quiet/loud dynamics within the 'song' framework that is quite original. so classic for just that.

I will try and come up with more bcz I haven't heard in a long long time.

but side a ... nosferatu man is such a great song. i think it's the best song they ever wrote.

the "quiet/loud" dynamic thing is mentioned quite a bit but i don't understand why slint defines it. some of their songs are quiet, some are loud, a couple are both. many other bands in rock have done quiet/loud earlier and better.

I can only think of dead C but since the songs were kind of loose in the first place...gimme names.

The photo of the hand on the inside of Umber is over a cassette copy of Tweez.

to answer bob snoom's question: bitch magnet were contemporaries of slint, the bulk of their output (2 LPs, 2 EPs) was released (i bleieve) prior to the release of spiderland (at which time, sooyoung and lexi started seam).

As for Talk Talk, alas I still have never heard them. They are on a mental list of mine with groups like Seefeel, Bark Psychosis, Derutti Column, A Certain Ratio, The Sound, Kitchens of Distinction, Comsat Angels and other UK arty guitar groups I haven't heard, but would check out if I came across their records.

I've got a pretty good sized stash of lps/cds, but I am the first to admit, I haven't heard everything.

Around the same time I posted that comment, I really wasn't listening to that much guitar rock, especially from the 90s, that has changed in the past few months.

I don't know about the "shouty" parts being embarressing, at least for me part of the problem with much of the music of this type is that it never explodes, it kind of stays in one mood. I think in the lust for being taken "seriously" people banished the rock, which to me is a sad thing.

Beyond the dynamics of the music, the way that Slint arranged the guitars were was very lyrical and with quite a bit of harmonizing between the two players. I know that a couple of bands (Ativan & Pencil) playing from Bloomington in Spiderlands wake definitely built from the way the guitars were orchestrated.

Now I know you're insane, gygax!

Somewhere in my parents' house is a tape of the Diablo Guapo demos with Britt on drums.

The Shannon Doughton name is actually from someone Britt went to school with.

While you're at it, is Sooyoung up to anything these days?

I always found the echo whisper part in "Good Morning, My Captain" to be embarassingly bad

How would you say this compares with Ozzy on "Black Sabbath" singing "No NO! Please God Help me!!"? I find them both neither moving nor embarassing. They're both just really effective performances in the context of the songs.

Anyway, the Slint album is a definite classic. All the imitators are duds. The thing is as great is Slint were, there is no real point to all the regurgitation. That album was delivered at the perfect time, and they themselves had the good sense to stop.

(ok, maybe when I was a kid I got goosebumps w/ Ozzy, but I'm talking about now)

:)

I find this shocking and disturbing.

^^^They were reminiscing while eating Taco Bell mexican pizzas which are being removed from the TB menu, haha.

Spiderland turns 30 on Saturday 3/27/21. Long interview-piece that doesn't shed a tremendous amount of new light for people with this thread bookmarked at Rolling Stone if you're so inclined/bored:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/slint-spiderland-interview-1144942/

man, to me, a louisvillian who was witness to birth of this band but was way too intimidated by those guys to dare to speak to them at the time, this article is off the charts informative relative to, say, the grantland piece seven years ago. I'm super jealous of Shteamer, not just re: the amount of access and consisdration those guys granted him, but the fact that he seems to be able to do these wonky-ass deep dives for rolling goddamn Stone, an outlet not known to indulge in massive retrospectives on artists unknown or irrelevant to Jann Wenner or Joe Levy, for that matter. God bless Jason Fine!

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/ca/f6/4ecaf654d7f7f4adfd6c3e4acc4468c2.jpg

I watched Breadcrumb Trail last night. It's on YouTube.

I think this must be the only instance on the parents having a decisive effect on the music, in allowing those guys to rehearse what would become Spiderland in their basement.

Also not only are they bored of rock but they seem bored of that kind of post-hardcore scene by the time they made Spiderland. I realise how the vocals, which is the thing that immediately elevates this record, are as underehearsed as the music is so overehearsed -- akin to the making of Trout Mask Replica, that stuff sounds so together.

Remarkable how there's just no setup, no manager, no nothing. It's just these kids, Brian's parents, the odd person from Touch & Go, Steve Albini, and Will Oldham (the one person missing from the doc). But everybody is hands off.

And they are so young. You need to repeat that over and over again. Simultaneously the reason they sorta hadn't left home -- which allowed for acres of rehearsal and development of the music -- and the quality of the lyrics/singing goes into that. Explains the break-up too. Too young to make that kind of music. Brian felt the pressure with no setup to take it off.

I just found Brian's parents fascinating. Britt is just insane.

I was going to say it's an odd documentary but it's actually pretty generic - it's the content that's odd. Like you say, Britt is such an unusual character, profoundly introverted and seemingly unaware of his obvious talent. I had no idea that was him on the first Breeders album, for instance. I'd normally roll my eyes at yet another James Murphy talking head but he's instructive in that he can hardly articulate what it is about Britt that is so compelling and otherworldly.

Brian too, seems completely at odds with what he produces. The scene where his accident is discussed passes like a dream.

Quite a few that have Britt stories. Albini talking about the time Britt was house-sitting. Drew Daniel when they stayed over at his then place. Then the guy who talked about his erotic cakes.

Wish Kim Deal was in it too.

And yeah I just forgot about the accident. Kinda weird nobody had died.

It's hard to describe how exciting it was when they started playing shows in 86/87: the Louisville scene was in full flower, but it was hardcore hardcore, hardcore… the Misfits 100% ran that town, and when I heard that two guys from Maurice, one from Sq

It's hard to describe how exciting it was when they started playing shows in 86/87: the Louisville scene was in full flower, but it was hardcore hardcore, hardcore… the Misfits 100% ran that town, and when I heard that two guys from Maurice, one from Squirrel bait and one from Dot 39 (not well known anymore) of course you'd think it was gonna be the most merciless metal-punk to have ever existed… and then they play the Tweez shit at shows and the hardcore kids, despite individual claims to the contrary in decades later, were either bored or bewildered… myself and like five other kids, including a former ILX leading light, on the other hand were absolutely dumbstruck, in awe of what was unfolding (yeah, yeah I'm tooting my own horn here)…

and so then the Tweez shit in particular earns the Trout mask comparison…it is very very hard, maybe impossible to discern what stylistic templates they may have used… the only thing is that Pajo was well known as a technically accomplished player a shredder in fact… and it was clear to me that Walford was unlike any drummer to have ever walked the earth… by dint of the truly extraordinary preternatural, native ability of those two guys, they made music that has almost nothing to do with any previous shit ever… I would only say that Tweez is Pajo's, Spiderland is McMahon's, but its all Walford's. Spiderland more or less came to me like everyone else, although I they did a show in lville in 1990 where they played that material beofre the record was released (or possibly recorded).

said this before, but I was pants-shittingly intimidated by those guys, and when I encountered Walford in the 90s, each time among mutual friends he did not exactly have the interest or ability to set people at ease.

"and so then the Tweez shit in particular earns the Trout mask comparison…it is very very hard, maybe impossible to discern what stylistic templates they may have used"

Only say that bcz in both cases the band spent what seems like an enormous amount of time rehearsing before they got into the studio to record.

Trout Mask was a live album, only engineered (despite the produced by Frank Zappa). Similarly Spiderland was only engineered and as Paulson talked about there wasn't a lot of he needed to do.

t's hard to describe how exciting it was when they started playing shows in 86/87: the Louisville scene was in full flower, but it was hardcore hardcore, hardcore… the Misfits 100% ran that town, and when I heard that two guys from Maurice, one from Squirrel bait and one from Dot 39 (not well known anymore) of course you'd think it was gonna be the most merciless metal-punk to have ever existed… and then they play the Tweez shit at shows and the hardcore kids, despite individual claims to the contrary in decades later, were either bored or bewildered… myself and like five other kids, including a former ILX leading light, on the other hand were absolutely dumbstruck, in awe of what was unfolding (yeah, yeah I'm tooting my own horn here)…

When I wrote my 33 1/3 book about Spiderland, I really loved hearing Sean Garrison (aka Rat)'s perspective on those early days. Veronica I'm sure you already know this, but for everyone else on the board if the name's not recognizable - he was the singer for Maurice which was very much a metal band. He described to me this kind of slow-motion bewilderment/awe at what Pajo and Walford were doing. The last song Maurice wrote was a Slint song (I can't remember without looking it up but I think it was "Pat"), and Rat basically gave up - he couldn't figure out how to sing over the music they were making.

and so then the Tweez shit in particular earns the Trout mask comparison…it is very very hard, maybe impossible to discern what stylistic templates they may have used… the only thing is that Pajo was well known as a technically accomplished player a shredder in fact… and it was clear to me that Walford was unlike any drummer to have ever walked the earth… by dint of the truly extraordinary preternatural, native ability of those two guys, they made music that has almost nothing to do with any previous shit ever… I would only say that Tweez is Pajo's, Spiderland is McMahon's, but its all Walford's. Spiderland more or less came to me like everyone else, although I they did a show in lville in 1990 where they played that material beofre the record was released (or possibly recorded).

Agree, Tweez is Pajo/Walford, Spiderland is McMahon/Walford. Also, Tweez is high school and Spiderland is college--which feels very obvious in the lyrics if not the music itself. McMahon and Walford wrote a good chunk of the album while living in dorms at Northwestern, away from Pajo and Brashear. (The other two had influence on the songwriting too but not to the same degree.)

Thanks for your 33 1/3 book, I devoured that when I was 17. And great write up too Veronica

Thanks HP, I appreciate that.

awesome posts veronica and pgwp

So should I listen to this band for the first time

um yes

No save it till your in you’re 80’s, consuming all music post1960’s in existence beforehand so that you can properly appreciate britt’s drumming on good morning captain (all the talk of the documentary pales in comparison to the shots of a 16yo looking Britt playing the track in a crusty basement)

So very very glad David Pajo is still around and working after his sadly public suicide attempt. I couldn’t believe that Slint was where he started knowing him from Tortoise and Papa M first. What a career, spiderland to millions now living to Royal trux to zwan, while playing live with interpol, the yeah yeah yeahs and now hang of four. Is there any career in rock music that mirrors the broad + influential + not super well known (from my impression) he has?

Jim O'Rourke maybe? Pajo's Zwan bandmate Matt Sweeney is also kinda a rough analogue

This thread has been a great read, thanks all. And I have to read your 33 1/3 book, pgwp.

Thanks so much for the posts, yes. Veronica was so lucky to see them at that time. And for the impression to linger after all these years. We all hope to catch art at the highest levels while it's on the make and people aren't quite sure. People usually get to it when you are already told it's good by some.

"So very very glad David Pajo is still around and working after his sadly public suicide attempt."

Very sad about it when I saw this on his wiki yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7wh270Oc9c

yeah so I finally did it, what do you guys think?

https://i.imgur.com/Yh3rMqR.jpg

shouldn't have gone with comic sans

33 years old! Ashamed to say I've never heard the remaster... until today, I will report back what new things I hear.

My book came out just ahead of its 20th anniversary. Wow.

I couldn't tell you when I bought it or why, I don't recall really ever listening to it, it just seemed like it was always there, I was never as deeply obsessed with it as some people I knew were, like I can never remember what the names of the songs are, I was kind of bored with it by the early aughts when it was touch point for like everything, then the reunion...

But there are times, like this morning when I listen to it and it's like meeting with an younger version of myself, I know everything about it and am instantly transported to my parent's basement or my first apartment or this shitty car I had, the clothes, the smells, the sensations, the details are all right there encoded in the music.

What a weird ass record.

Good post. Similar for me. Those intro guitar harmonics take me right back to the bedroom I first heard it. I can remember my state of confusion first hearing the abrasive guitar in Nosferatu Man. Really an album that captures people, holds them where they are. A drumming student of mine, completely obsessed with hip-hop and funk, couldn't get him to care about any other music no matter how hard I tried, became obsessed with this album of all albums (I mean the drumming is pretty incredible), and I could see it hit his 16yo brain the same way it hit my brain at 16yo. Sorta one of those undeniable works that transcends taste and preference if it is given a listening ear.

Also everyone should read pgwp's book. It is the best.

Aw thanks HP!