Cocteau Twins : Classic or Dud

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classic, imho. although my email address might give away my bias. good stuff from all periods. milk and kisses is a little weak, but there are good tracks on this one too. i would have thought that more people would have mentioned blue bell knoll, which i like quite a bit. as with other music, mood dictates which cocteau twins album i will pull for a spin.

jmh, Wednesday, 12 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Classic of course. They are one of those rare great bands which created a sound which is their own. Their sound is like a parallel universe. Music to forget the world around you. It is dreamy, fairy- tale like and so lulling. It must be the perfect music for babies rocking in the cradle. But I must admit that they started to get on my nerves in 1996 with their last album "Milk and Kisses". Suddenly the magic was gone and they were repeating themselves. I would have liked them to finish with a stronger album. When I first listened to them (and this was "Heaven or Las Vegas", my later favourite) their music sounded so dull so that I can understand Tom. But after a while it clicked. Similar to Belle and Sebastian's "Sinister" which I did not find special in the beginning. Additionally they expanded my English. Now I know what ethereal is.

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 12 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Classic, but with some dips into dudness. "Treasure" is still (just) in my all-time Top10 LPs. They put out way too much stuff in 1985-6, only half of which was any good. But then a roaring return to form with Blue Bell Knoll & Heaven And Las Vegas. After that, patchy again.

Jeff W, Wednesday, 12 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I changed my mind back again - the odd track mixed in with some other stuff is great, a whole album unbearable. Too cloying - too samey. They're a gnat's chuff away from grateness on a maybe half a dozen tracks - the one off Treasure (Lorelei? I never remember the silly titles)which couples a soaring breathy Liz with a kinda Glam stomp in slo-mo is damn near close to perfection. If Guthrie's production could have mixed the cotton woolly maximum flange which he uses all the time with an occasional sharper focus it would sound 100 times better. Contrast, see?

Dr.C, Wednesday, 12 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one month passes...
come on. one of the best bends of the 80's if not the best.

justin case, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Hey, since this is at the top of the NEW ANSWERS again, anyone heard that new project of Guthrie's? Violet Indiana, that is? I know what Andy thinks...anyone else have a take on it?

Sean Carruthers, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

does no one around here rate head over heels? i think it's easily their best record. "sugar hiccup"...yowza...it's a bit like the sugarcube's "birthday"...it just sends me in a way few other songs do...the perfect distillation of their aesthetic into a brief almost-but-not-quite pop song. (hey tom, does this qualify for the "pop (not pop)" debate?) ;)

jess, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Head Over Heels is their best, Jess? Well no shit, Sherlock.

Andy K., Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Head Over Heels is pretty damn great, and I think the album I play the most after Treasure and Heaven or Las Vegas. It has much more variety than many of the other albums, certainly in comparison to Garlands, and "Musette and Drums" is just monstrous.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I don't think anybody used the E word to describe them until well after Head Over Heels. Evil, perhaps, but not e-fucking-thereal. Those guitars sound ferocious and Liz' cries sound like child abuse. I like " The Tinderbox" along with "Musette" and "Hiccups". Great as Treasure was it marks the beginning, along with a slew of singles and EPs from that time, of the Cocteau's sweet side overtaking their gloriously sinister side.

Curt, Friday, 18 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one year passes...
REVIVE-A-RAMA!

I'm on a spree tonight - and I'm massively back into the Cocs. I think Treasure is one of my all time fave albums, but my knowledge of the rest of their stuff doesn't extend much past it, only to "Four Calendar Cafe" (which I realise is to Treasure as Sing when Your Winning is to Life thru a Lens).

So go on - lets speak of how awesomely great Lorelei is.

Lynskey (Lynskey), Tuesday, 26 August 2003 22:59 (twenty years ago) link

Cocteau twins are so very overdue for a rarities/b-sides collection. 4AD's reissued lots of the 80's EPs, but there's worthwhile stuff from the 90's too that's still lost. 'Round', 'An Elan', 'Flock of Soul' were all M&K b-sides, I think. there's also the lovely 'Need-Fire', which was only on, of all things, the Judge Dredd soundtrack. oh, and their last recorded song ever, 'Touch by Touch', which is a real connection to Violet Indiana... lovely stuff.

derrick (derrick), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 03:54 (twenty years ago) link

As classic as it's possible to get -- despite later stuff letting them down.

One of the great bands of the 80s.

David A. (Davant), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 05:34 (twenty years ago) link

Anyone who says "dud" gets the eternal middle finger from me.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link

I've never really engaged with the Cocteaus... I can see why people like them, but what I've heard by them has never made me go "WOW! THAT'S BRILLIANT". with the exception of 'Song To The Siren', which might be by This Mortal Coil rather than the Cocs themselves as such.

DV (dirtyvicar), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 14:49 (twenty years ago) link

Mmm, they are rather like eating a whole treacle steam pudding to yourself: delightful at first but 3 1/4 the way through and it's - glckk! ... enough spongey sweetness!
But those first few mouthfuls - wow wow wow, heaven!

David Merryweather (DavidM), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 16:09 (twenty years ago) link

re-revive-orama !

some time last autumn i had a funny turn :

falling in love with the cocteaus again.

piscesboy, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 17:23 (twenty years ago) link

DV, for all intents and purposes, "Song to the Siren" is a Cocteaus song (Liz and... Simon(?)).

Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 20:18 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
I'm seeing Robin Guthrie solo tonight in San Francisco. I will report back afterward.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 12 November 2004 04:07 (nineteen years ago) link

Please do!

Seb (Seb), Friday, 12 November 2004 06:49 (nineteen years ago) link

It should be a very placid evening.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Friday, 12 November 2004 06:50 (nineteen years ago) link

Yes tell us what happens, Kyle.

Bimble (bimble), Friday, 12 November 2004 08:03 (nineteen years ago) link

It was quite good! I fell asleep though (twice). He performed to a film he'd made which was kind of superfluous; pretty, but kind of sub-brakhage attempts at color and light with a few naked ladies thrown in for good measure. It was good to have something to look at occasionally though. Songs were from Imperial (a few of them) and some were new; they were definitely much more interesting live than the album, which, again, is pretty, but kind of inconsequential. It was great to see him generate those classic Guthrie reverb drenched tones though. He plays so effortlessly, everything looks so easy. I think the tour dates are on the bella union site, if you're a fan it's well worth going.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 12 November 2004 08:31 (nineteen years ago) link

two months pass...
So Hilburn/LA Times are claiming the Cocteaus are reuniting and playing Coachella, as will be announced tomorrow. Allegedly.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 January 2005 07:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I know, I just read that on the other thread and I'm afraid I'm just in shock. Surely it can't really be?

Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 07:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Maximum classic. Aside from echoing the feeling of other pro-Twin-ists, I can only add that immersion in their stuff truly is a dependable visit--I shall now sound very earnest and lame--to a very safe, candy-cotton cocoony place.

iang, Monday, 31 January 2005 07:38 (nineteen years ago) link

recorded, classic. live... dud.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Monday, 31 January 2005 07:52 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, well, she used to get pretty nervous live, that's true. But by the time of Milk & Kisses it seemed to me she might have conquered a lot of her fright.

Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 08:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Can't find a damn thing on the "official web site" about a reunion other than rumours.

Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 08:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Off to the desert!

http://www.ambitious-outsiders.com/images/lineup05.jpg

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 31 January 2005 14:52 (nineteen years ago) link

maybe they'll tour later this year with Dead Can Dance and my head can FUCKING EXPLODE

kyle (akmonday), Monday, 31 January 2005 14:59 (nineteen years ago) link

new order billed below nine inch nails?
bauhaus and cocteau twins billed below coldplay?

my heart just broke

rentboy (rentboy), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Milk & Kisses is really, really, really wonderful.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:19 (nineteen years ago) link

America gets Bauhaus and Cocteau Twins reunions, meanwhile I was informed via The Guardian Guide that London gets 30th Anniversary Tour visits from Styx and Kansas. Totally unfair !

DJ Martian (djmartian), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Junkie frigging XL? Puh-leez. I would say: Let's hope he breaks up in a million pieces but that'd just mean a reunion in ten years time. ;-)

I have only heard Heaven Or Las Vegas. Wouldn't say classic, because I have to be in the right mood for her *glossolalia*. But it sure is pretty music.

stevie nixed (stevie nixed), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link

holy fuck...

Baaderonixxx le Jeune (Fabfunk), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:06 (nineteen years ago) link

It is official. Hell of a time to be not in California. This is shaping up to be the worst year of my life.

Leeeter van den Hoogenband (Leee), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Fuck.

There must be UK dates, surely.

aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:25 (nineteen years ago) link

I hope so!

Rob M (Rob M), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:27 (nineteen years ago) link

eleven months pass...
cocaine

mdma

together

terry lennox. (gareth), Thursday, 5 January 2006 23:27 (eighteen years ago) link

Drug fiend.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 January 2006 03:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Cocteau Twins, along with King Crimson and David Sylvian (japan/Rain Tree Crow/Nine Horses), rates among my absolute favorite musical acts. My only issue is that I find Liz Fraser's post-Cocteau output a bit underwhelming. "This Love" with Craig Armstrong and her Massive Attack collaborations are notable exceptions. "At Last I am Free" (taken from the 'Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before Compilation), on the other hand, sounds unfocused. Liz posesses, in my opinion, probably the most beautiful voice in music and I think it would be interesting to see here work with some composers/producers that could do her singing justice.

As for possible artistic directions, I could imagine a piece driven by Fripp Soundscape and Frisell Loops with electro-acoustic drum work By Pat Mastelloto, some electronically treated harmonized trumept lines by Nils Petter Molvaer, some excentric fretless bass work by Mick Karn and, beautiful piano/synth treatments courtesy of Ryuichi Sakamoto. I could think of may other possible directions, but this is just off the top of my head. All in all I still think she has the potential to surpass even the greatest cocteau twins moments, given the right environment.

Cliftonb, Friday, 6 January 2006 05:26 (eighteen years ago) link

she doesn't seem to be interested in doing much of anything though, oddly enough.

kyle (akmonday), Friday, 6 January 2006 20:52 (eighteen years ago) link

two years pass...

I JUST RIPPED MILK & KISSES TO MY IPOD THEREFORE I RULE OKEETHNCXBYEEY

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 31 May 2008 08:29 (fifteen years ago) link

underrated album, that

stephen, Saturday, 31 May 2008 08:39 (fifteen years ago) link

The last one I bought was Four Calendar Cafe, but I think I heard Milk & Kisses once. Perhaps I should seek it out again.

Johnny Fever, Saturday, 31 May 2008 08:49 (fifteen years ago) link

"Violaine" is one of my favorite late-period Cocteau songs -- it stands up to the best of Heaven or Las Vegas, easily

stephen, Saturday, 31 May 2008 09:14 (fifteen years ago) link

This is the one Cocteau Twins album I actually had sex to.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Saturday, 31 May 2008 10:29 (fifteen years ago) link

intentionally?

stephen, Saturday, 31 May 2008 14:18 (fifteen years ago) link

seven months pass...

Oh my god if Cocteaus could ever forgive you

Meanie!

Tell the X Mal Deutschland fans to go fuck it all.

Cocteaus happiness.
Quisquose.

I'm gonna sic the vinyl on your ass. I'm trying to peaceful, but...
sorry.

EAT THE VINYL

EAT IT

Oh shit

With Oatmeal Sauce (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Sunday, 4 January 2009 08:34 (fifteen years ago) link

That's all Liz Fraser. Wait till you see the ones on Blue Bell Knoll !

LeRooLeRoo, Tuesday, 25 April 2023 16:07 (eleven months ago) link

"Sugar Hiccup" was a good call!

morrisp.fandom.com (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 April 2023 16:23 (eleven months ago) link

I feel like the Sugarcubes def. took some inspiration here (tho I imagine this is a bog-standard observation)

morrisp.fandom.com (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 April 2023 16:42 (eleven months ago) link

I remember an early Sugarcubes interview where Björk said she often got compared to Kate Bush, Siouxsie Sioux and Liz Fraser.

LeRooLeRoo, Tuesday, 25 April 2023 17:49 (eleven months ago) link

And just that slow-tempo groove, echoing drums, and chiming gtr of some of these tracks (although I guess that would describe a lot of '80s acts!)

morrisp.fandom.com (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 April 2023 18:13 (eleven months ago) link

morrisp, you gotta check out the Love's Easy Tears EP. Their single best release for me, has kind of a 60s-pop-beamed-through-interstellar-space vibe

J. Sam, Tuesday, 25 April 2023 18:16 (eleven months ago) link

Thanks – just listened, and liked it a lot (perfect description, too!)

morrisp.fandom.com (morrisp), Tuesday, 25 April 2023 18:40 (eleven months ago) link

one month passes...

I found this in a cutout bin of unsold Record Store Day stuff - Sun's Signature (Frasier and Damon Reece)

HOLY SHIT THIS IS GREAT why didn't anyone freak out about this

feels like a mix of Cocteau's and Portishead Third

https://sunssignature.bandcamp.com/album/suns-signature

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 June 2023 14:21 (nine months ago) link

waht

out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Tuesday, 20 June 2023 14:40 (nine months ago) link

I thought this already made the rounds! Yeah it's fine stuff.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 June 2023 14:41 (nine months ago) link

I must have missed it, just saw the cover in the bins and googled it, was only $8 so I figured why not, super blown away by how great this is, beautiful tracks, feels a piece with CT but has its own identity

her voice has held up remarkably!

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 20 June 2023 14:44 (nine months ago) link

plus Steve Hackett!!

SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 20 June 2023 17:00 (nine months ago) link

Woah. Thanks for info. Had no idea.

anatol_merklich, Tuesday, 20 June 2023 20:55 (nine months ago) link

two months pass...

Happy 60th to Liz!

a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 29 August 2023 21:59 (seven months ago) link

Yesterday in the northern suburbs of Chicago there was a blue minivan with Louisiana plates and a bumper sticker that said "STOP HONKING I'm trying to figure out what Cocteau Twins are saying" over the Heaven or Las Vegas cover art.

It's sold out

j.o.h.n. in evanston (john. a resident of chicago.), Tuesday, 29 August 2023 22:16 (seven months ago) link

four months pass...

https://i.imgur.com/pI7Yi4b.jpg

John Bonham is all over this album huh

calstars, Saturday, 27 January 2024 21:56 (two months ago) link

Yessir.

"1984’s Treasure was a landmark album for the Cocteaus that saw improvements in both their songwriting and Guthrie’s production—it also marked the debut of their multi-instrumentalist Simon Raymonde. They worked in some new gear, including an E-mu Emulator sampler and Yamaha DX-7 for bell sounds, but they stuck with their E-mu Drumulator with an important upgrade.

The change? Guthrie swapped out the original eproms for Digidrums’ Rock Drums chips, which featured samples of John Bonham from “When The Levee Breaks.” It gives the backing tracks a distinctive sampled edge but with a Drumulator feel.

In the magazine One-Two Testing, Guthrie explained how he used the Drumulator on the record. “We start with a very basic guide drum on the Drumulator. I’ve tried all the drum machines and that’s the most straightforward machine to work with. Examples? Well, supposing you wanted to erase a particular drum from a song. On some machines that would take you ages. With the Drumulator it’s straightforward. Tuning of the drums on it would be helpful, I suppose, but you could always varispeed them once they were on tape. I’ve got some of the new chips for our Drumulator—the Rock chips sound great. I’ll stick with that machine.”

MaresNest, Saturday, 27 January 2024 22:56 (two months ago) link

Also Shout by Tears For Fears

MaresNest, Saturday, 27 January 2024 22:56 (two months ago) link

twins becoming one of my fav bands

Swen, Sunday, 28 January 2024 17:24 (two months ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/QFFJGor.png

The first 20 seconds of this sound like music for a secret super Mario brothers underworld level

calstars, Sunday, 28 January 2024 20:17 (two months ago) link

never picked up on either of those drum samples, good excuse to play treasure at a very loud volume when I clock out.

brimstead, Monday, 29 January 2024 21:07 (two months ago) link

Ugh, that Quietus review gets 721 words in before it mentions the band or the album

enochroot, Thursday, 1 February 2024 17:20 (two months ago) link

Thanks, john

irerisered, Thursday, 1 February 2024 20:56 (two months ago) link

never picked up on either of those drum samples, good excuse to play treasure at a very loud volume when I clock out.

rock out with your clock out

blazin' squab (NickB), Thursday, 1 February 2024 20:58 (two months ago) link

two months pass...

https://i.imgur.com/1sNGV7D.jpg

I painted my teeth (sleeve), Thursday, 11 April 2024 20:45 (one week ago) link

Feel like“Slip Away the Chicken Slice” needs a comma.

Slip Away, the Chicken Slice

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 11 April 2024 23:36 (one week ago) link

I coulda sworn "Bitter Gourd Grasping" was a BBK outtake but I guess not

I painted my teeth (sleeve), Thursday, 11 April 2024 23:37 (one week ago) link

also, ATTN Swen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaOlNfC8_xQ

I painted my teeth (sleeve), Thursday, 11 April 2024 23:39 (one week ago) link

Damn those clips were so laid back. I miss 80s news

sawdust lagoon, Friday, 12 April 2024 00:05 (one week ago) link


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