The Band.

Well Aretha Franklin did record a great version of "The Weight".

There's a similarity in the vocals at times (I think Rick Danko is the most Garcia-like one?), but the Band never wanked off quite like the Dead...

"Music From the Big Pink" is just about perfect, the rest a bit hit-and-miss.

"The Weight" is, of course, great - is it representative of the rest of their material. Can I just buy whatever album that's on and be set for a start?

I like the Band a lot, but I admit I like them best on The Basement Tapes. Their first several albums are all classics, though. When I was a kid, I was always put off by their muddy, murky sound. Now that's one of the things I love about them.

Yes miloauckerman, get Big Pink, it's awesome. I always found it much better than their self-titled second album, more diverse, less "reactionary" I suppose. "Life is a Carnival" from Cahoots is a party of a song, no wonder the Avalanches use it. Wouldn't qualify it as "corny" though...

how embarassing, I said the same thing on the other thread.

i feel this doubly

fritz, shame on you

And I can't believe you dissed "The Last Waltz" on the other thread, Matos - everybody knows the guest spots are mostly cack (they should have instituted a ban on performances by anyone named Neil) and Robbie was a douche, but "Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" should be proof enough that Fleetwood Mac AND Outkast together are not fit to lick Levon Helm's boots when it comes to adding brass bands to your sound for fun and profit(!!! Yeeeahh)

this isn't what i was trying to say, exactly; i was asserting (as i guess i had done on the other thread, but i forgot about that) that without having an ideological program necessarily they had a specific approach to arranging and recording and mixing which later became identified with a certain subgenre of rock music that is often called "rootsy"

i dunno about "authenticity" (a power word that doesn't really clear anything up) but robertson et al were certainly going for a certain "rooted" sense of americana, a music with a strong sense of history, and like ccr they were selfconsciously tapping into an existing mythology, adding to it besides (ccr was both more monomaniacal and i think even more successful in this regard)

i guess there was a kind of low-key program at work, perhaps not charged with the reactionary values that much subsequent "rootsy" music has adopted but purposeful and willful nonetheless

there's an interesting dynamic involved, however, that Barney Hoskins' Band book explored, that to the members of the Band, the cultures they were tapping in their music were both alien and natural to them, and the extent to which they were scholarly exploring these genres and musics, and simultaneously the closeness they felt to them (thinking mostly here of levon's arkansas roots). so their music was simultaneously an exercise in attempted authenticity, and imaginative explorations of genres they revered.

lately i've been spinning 'Rockin' Chair' a lot - love the heartsick, pleading sound of manuel's vocals, the absence of drums, the entwined mandolin and guitar, and the way the lyrics shift between 'downhome' nostalgia and a kind of resigned dread: these lines are especially devastating

Hear the sound, Willie Boy,
The Flyin' Dutchman's on the reef.
It's my belief
We've used up all our time,
This hill's to steep to climb,
And the days that remain ain't worth a dime.

god i love the band soo much

Great song

so is this really the only thread? or just a impediment of searching "The Band"?

i've been rather obsessed lately, mostly w/ the first three records. but i'm thinking of digging around for the others on the cheap. challop: Stage Fright is every bit as good as the first two. "The Rumor" and "Sleeping" are heartbreakingly awesome.

and hey, anyone remember this POS?: http://www.artistdirect.com/artist/videos/robbie-robertson/485778-811823-1

certainly some of the most creative and breathtaking uses of time signature changes in rock/popular music imo.

<3<3<3Levon @ 2:58 - "maybe they won't, you know i sure hope they don't"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Pt_ZkGg8I

this other thread is mentioned above: Classic Or Dud: The Band
certainly some of the most creative and breathtaking uses of time signature changes in rock/popular music imo.
this is otm -- for being known as such a "down-home, authentic, straightahead" their songs are hard as fuck to play. i mean, there's straight up rockabilly, but also new orleans + appalachian + country rhythms going on, sometimes all in the same song.

:D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_hsp4SBwO4

-aha, i knew there had to be another thread...

Absolutely brilliant music, especially Music From Big Pink, The Band, The Basement Tapes & Dylan live 1966 recordings.

this is otm -- for being known as such a "down-home, authentic, straightahead" their songs are hard as fuck to play. i mean, there's straight up rockabilly, but also new orleans + appalachian + country rhythms going on, sometimes all in the same song.

― tylerw, Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:57 PM (57 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

garth hudson was classically trained and i really think some of his modern classical influences are apparent as well, esp in stuff like the genetic method, but little bits of a lot of songs i can hear stuff like ives and copeland etc

there was also this poll: The Band poll

how funny, i thought this was a new thread...

http://i50.tinypic.com/2eam8n4.gif
hey check out the maine's new shirt at hot topic today ! :D
http://www.hottopic.com/hottopic/Apparel/TShirts/BandTees/The-Maine-Target-SlimFit-TShirt-972970.jsp

what a rag mama rag

king spam (has surely come)

D:

has anyone explored band members' post-Band solo stuff? or want to rep for the post-Robertson era records? I've only heard bits and pieces. Danko's first record has some gems. And I know I've heard a couple Levon Helm records. Never pulled the trigger on any of Garth Hudson's recent solo things. every robbie robertson record i've heard has been terrible.

I've long been intrigued by Robbie's solo records based on the glowing reviews in the 1990-era Rolling Stone review guide, but never enough to buy them (I've never even seen them in a store). I guess they're not great? Aren't they Lanois productions? I guess I know what I'd be in for. Does Robbie actually sing?

yeah they are the kind of records that rolling stone would give a good review to

they are very lanois

robbie cannot sing for shit

yeah, he's not a great singer. and the songs are pretty weak too, at least on the s/t record. lanois production is just the icing on the crap.

the bono duet is pretty lol

http://archive.gg.ca/media/pho/galleryPics/1340.jpg

is that a recent pic? if so, robbie has actually aged pretty well!
seems funny to me: he's a fucking unbelievable guitarist (listen to Live 1966!) but i wonder if he even touches his guitar anymore. doesn't seem like he guests on other people's records or anything.

i like the story about robbie joining the hawks, and the departing guitarist teaching him the wrong way to play harmonics or whatever out of spite. ends up backfiring, becoming an awesome robertson "trademark" or whatever.

i'm talking about those "popping" sounds, (like in the solo of "king harvest" on rock of ages)

from 2006; he looks pretty straight!

never forget:

I mean, years on the road.
The numbers start to scare you.

I couldn't live with years on the road.

I don't think I could even discuss it.

Rod Stewart pays tribute to Robertson. I haven't heard anything new from his voice in years, so it took some getting used to (for instance, in order to sing "Broken Arrow" now, he had to drop the key by a great amount), but I think the arrangement's better than what was used on Stewart's record.

I revisited the Band's first three albums all in a row - I've always liked Stage Fright despite its reputation as a "letdown" but honestly, it sounds even better than I remembered, even after hearing the first two. I also think Todd Rundgren's original mix made an enormous difference, so much that I put on the mix(es) that was ultimately used on the LP and I could hear what went wrong.

The history behind the mixing is ridiculously convoluted (and there's been some significant misinformation put out there). Rundgren engineered the recording sessions, and Robertson (who liked what he did) thought it made sense for him to mix the album. At minimum Levon wanted to get someone else like Glyn Johns, so they hired him as well, explaining they would both mix the album and may the best mix(es) win. To make that work, Rundgren had to fly to London with the tapes, and he and Johns mixed the album there, with Johns at one studio and Rundgren at another. Rundgren then flew back to NYC with all the tapes - the Band heard the results and there wasn't enough agreement to use either set of mixes (at least in their entirety). So Rundgren had to make ANOTHER set of mixes in New York City, a process he recalls being excruciating as all five members had to approve of every mix. Most of the NYC mixes ended up on the released album, but three songs used Johns's mixes. Then somewhere down the line, for reasons unknown, the first CD release used all of Rundgren's London mixes, and the same mixes were used on a gold CD reissue before the 2000 CD reissue reverted back to the LP mixes.

A lot of times, the LP mix feels like they put everything up in the mix because everyone wanted to be heard rather than buried. I want to say it's like editing a movie where every actor has a say and they all demand that all of their lines stay in the film, because that's what it feels like. I guess you could say it's the equivalent of a live sound, but the mixes don't focus well on any important elements. Some of Richard's most beautiful moments in "Sleeping" are spoiled because the instruments now obscure his singing more, so even if you can still catch the words, the nuances are much harder to hear. Something jarring and distracting like the harpsichord in "Daniel and the Sacred Harp" is also better off mixed out like they are in Rundgren's London mix. And there are several instances where the vocals are bathed in this slick echo that's more appropriate for a standard pop record of the time whereas Rundgren's London mix's vocals are nearly always bone dry. (One exception is the surreal echo effect on Manuel in "Daniel," which makes sense in the context of the lyrics - it's recalling words once spoken. The LP mix also uses an echo on Manuel's vocal, but again it's a lush echo that sounds cheesier and less fitting.) The only other instance of echo I can recall from Rundgren's London mix is on the title track - it's only on certain words in Danko's vocal, as if he backs his head away from the mic when shouting a note (i.e. it could be the acoustics of the location). For some reason, the LP mix pans these moments of echo sharply to the right, and it just sounds weird. In Rundgren's London mix, I love how Danko and Helm are so apart on "The Rumor" and then Manuel's beautiful vocal seems to bring everything together, in spirit and in sound, but on the LP mix, they just douse everyone in that same bath of echo and the effect is syrupy. (FWIW, I have the audiophile gold CD, and the vacuum tube mastering used on that CD probably helps too. Surprisingly that CD wasn't an expensive find.)

Good stuff, thanks. What about the 2020 remix by Bob Clearmountain and Robbie?

Great post, birdistheword. I’ve weirdly only heard the 2020 remix, which I generally like. The one or two songs I’ve heard in the original mix (“Stage Fright” and “The Shape I’m In”) always sounded claustrophobic and cluttered to me. The Clearmountain mix opens things up.

yeah I've only heard the 2020 as well and love it. I recall RR changed the running order to more accurately reflect his vision of the album

Thanks James, and apologies forgot to circle back! They packaged a great show with the 2020 remix so at minimum the 2CD version is worth it for that. There's a lot of compression on that CD, which may or may not be baked into the new mix, and it has a lot of characteristics typically found in Clearmountain's mixes so it was kind of jarring to hear: it really sounds like something mixed in 2020 than, say, 1970. He applies quite a bit of reverb, like on "The Rumor" and I think on Danko's entire vocal for the title track - he's kind of known for his wide array of "echoes" and I think he even has a plugin based on them. That part I'm not so sure about as it's not to my preference but it was Robertson's call whether or not to have that. Compression aside, he does a great job of balancing the instruments so everything does come together nicely. He doesn't always use the same approach for every song - he clearly knows what to focus on. (On "Sleeping," Manuel's vocal sounds very present while everything else is brought down, much moreso than past mixes.) Tough call on Robertson's new sequence because "Sleeping" does make a great closer, better than "The Rumor"...on the other hand, I don't think "The Rumor" really works as well anywhere else. I don't think anything was wrong withe original sequence so that's my preference, but FWIW Greil Marcus much prefers the new sequence.

I'll also say that Clearmountain did a far better job mixing the live Academy album (i.e. Rock of Ages) than what was originally released, and he also did better than the remixes Andrew Sandoval made for A Musical History. However, I also prefer the "soundboard mix" Sebastian Robertson made of the New Year's show - it feels more apiece with the first two albums. I can also see it getting rejected for being too natural-sounding - Clearmountain's mix sounds really polished, what you'd expect from a major label live release.

*I don't think anything was wrong with the track sequence that everyone lived with until 2020 so that's my preference, but FWIW Greil Marcus much prefers the new sequence.

I also prefer the "soundboard mix" Sebastian Robertson made of the New Year's show - it feels more apiece with the first two albums.

Ooh, where can I hear this?

On physical media, it was made available only through the Live At The Academy Of Music 1971 box set, but that entire set (sans DVD) should be on all streaming services, so you'll be able to see the two discs marked "soundboard mix."

Thinking I mgith have to watch ONCE WERE BROTHERS again despite any, um, reservations.

thank you bird!

“Robbie was a lifelong friend. His passing leaves a vacancy in the world.”

This is it from you-know-who?

Seems like the Soundboard mix starts with “Up on Cripple Creek.”

Subtracting some more points from ONCE FOR BROTHERS for anachronistic appearance of “Je t’aime… moi non plus” in 1968.

Sorry, much worse, 1966.

“Robbie was a lifelong friend. His passing leaves a vacancy in the world.”

This is it from you-know-who?

Bono obviously.

Haha! Close

More points deducted for misattribution of some Basement Tapes backing vocals to HELM.

Who does of course eventually reappear but still.

I thought a lot of the Basement Tapes was recorded later - the Band songs anyway.

Right but this was weird demo about a dog that seems to be clearly from that period. Plus voice sounded like Richard Manuel whose photo is also on screen immediately afterwards.

Dominique is even referred to as Dominique Robertson. Maybe she kept her married name after divorce, not that it’s any of my business really. Not even sure how I knew they were divorced except for rock and roll Last Waltz extrapolation and various photos of Robbie plus arm candy du jour.

“Kickin’ My Dog Around”

Hint to Tom D: it wasn’t Peter Gabriel what said that either

Considering bird's tales of regal demands re mixes, somebody up or down there might dig this serving ov the 50th Anniversary Larks' Tongues In Aspic:

...This set comprises two blu-ray audio discs and two CDs. The first blu-ray contains Steven Wilson’s brand new Dolby Atmos Mix which is described as “more expansive than the earlier mixes as released in 2012, while still retaining and enhancing the core power of the original material”. Since Wilson’s Atmos process involves going back to the multi-track tapes and first building a new stereo mix and then a 5.1 surround mix, we are presented with three brand news mixes for this product.

While Steven was working on this aspect of the material Alex R. Mundy and David Singleton were mixing every single take of the original studio sessions. These unreleased early takes are presented not as traditionally blended pieces, but with maximum separation, with the idea being to mimic “the experience of sitting in the studio with the individual elements being performed around you”.

David Singleton’s ‘Elemental mixes’ apply this same approach to the main album takes to give a fresh view on the familiar, with the focus often falling in unusual places, some originally hidden, some unused. Four of the album’s core tracks feature: extended mixes of ‘Larks’ 1’ and ‘Talking Drum’ along with ‘Easy Money’ and ‘Larks’ 2’. This material is also on the first blu-ray alongside Wilson’s three mixes and some instrumental mixes.

Thanks to the capacity of the blu-ray audio format, the second blu-ray disc contains the complete recordings of every session recorded for the album. As stated, all of this material has been newly mixed from the original performances and is presented on disc for the first time in hi-res 24/96 stereo. This second blu-ray also includes the original stereo mixes of the album and David Singleton’s audio documentary of the album recording Keep That One, Nick. These are the sole previously released elements in this package (both were included in the 2012 box set).

As if all that’s not enough, there’s two CDs. The first includes the 2023 stereo mix and instrumentals of the album and the second offers the elemental mixes and selected master reels...

All that talk about his first wife made me wonder what his second wife might be like. This seems to give us a pretty good idea:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cpsa5pPrGcy/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Ask Greil today ends with quite the kicker.

Ha, Robbie himself talks a bit about that in his WTF episode

https://greilmarcus.substack.com/p/ask-greil-september-5-2023

Dalton sings Manuel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr46KHgjkso

Manuel sings and/or writes lyrics about Dalton, 'tis long said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRsiO8KdKg

Never knew about this, but Dylan apparently wanted the reunited Band (without Robbie but with Richard still alive) to back him in 1986 - they didn't because their manager nixed the idea.

This is according to Jim Weider in a new interview.

That's a really interesting interview, thanks for posting.

Yes, enjoyed reading that.