I've heard great things about RED, but I've never heard it. Possibly due to the stigma of John Wetton. Even though RED predated Asia by veritable eons, I cannot erase the crime.
― Alex in NYC, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ian, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Sean Carruthers, Friday, 15 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Atul, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Red is ace, and has been discussed here before. The instrumental tracks are the ones that sound less dated - especially the title track and its 'devils interval' backstory.
But I think Wettons vocals on Starless and Red are lovely and I disagree that the placid quietness of them is just 'static' - there is a line on one of the tracks on Starless... 'My Home... was a place by the sea' which I just adore and I've never known why - but it kept popping up in my head when I had my Steve Erickson reading binge a couple of years ago and it has that same mesmeric Erickson quality of difference and strangeness but not different and not strange (ooh thats a hopeless description: Somebody save me here!).
There are three formulas involved in the Larks/Starless/Red tracks - and I think I like them all.
There are the dream-like songs I've already mentioned - all playful repeating echos of other things, and that strange wailing sound which I always imagine is one of them corrugated tubes you wave around your head - but presumably is just frippertronics (it turns up on evening star too). I always thought they were an influence on Nirvana on Nevermind's quiet moments but haven't seen it confirmed that Cobain knew this stuff.
Then there are the agressive ones - Red, the loud bits in Larks part one - the bit in Fracture where it suddenly changes speed. For a prog band they sure conjure with an magikal energy - that stuff sounds great - its a shame that neither the post rockers like Mogwai / Aeorgramme / etc or the Nu Metallers studied that stuff to avoid making their mistakes. Its not just a feature of that period of Crimson though, 21st C on the first album, the bit nicked from Mars on the second have that feel too.
The bits that are left form a third grouping, mainly instrumental and much more passive - but definately not static. The quiet bits of Larks pt1, Trio, Night Watch. Larks overtly references Vaughn Williams and thats a good suggestion of what's going on, Debussy and Satie too. But there is a lack of optimism in those tracks that doesn't sit well with the grace of those influences. They are bleak and hopeless feeling too.
― Alexander Blair, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
"Easy Money" has this (on the live versions, not the studio version, alas) great (for prog rock, mind you) bit of lyric:
"So I argued with the judge, But the bastard wouldn't budge, 'cause they caught me licking fudge, and they never told me once, you were a minor..."
― Joe, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― sundar subramanian, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Andrew L, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mark s, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― chakli, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Mark- Apparently Red is KC's favourite album ever. He also loved the raincoats, having written some brief notes for the reissue of their excellent debut. Even though nirvana sucked he had good taste (though I think that he only said that to piss off the metal fans that bought his music).
― Julio Desouza, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dleone, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― philT, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Jordan, Saturday, 16 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Agnes Moorehead, obviously. :)
― Joe, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― nickn, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Ladies of the Road and Formetera Ladies are the clunkers I refered to above btw. Though I think Sinfields worst lyrics are on Still.
― Alexander Blair, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― mark s, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Josh, Sunday, 17 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Truly unfathomable, I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes. However, it explains much. There's a site where I help write reviews for prog rock albums, and we once received a snippy letter for dissing the Wake of Poseidon album (or at least, not being fanboy-ish enough towards it), and the person, opening up by claiming we had "less wit and culture than an ant" (yep) used much of the material found in the Wake of Poseidon chapter as their defense of the album and its depth. Maybe it was even The Keeper of the onyx-embolden'd-husking-jewelled-warthogs website himself! :)
― kyle (akmonday), Friday, 22 September 2006 22:32 (seventeen years ago) link
Cue your golf swing.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:32 (twelve years ago) link
Wow... Mind = blown.
― An influential prophet from Denton, Texas (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:42 (twelve years ago) link
Very cool! thx ned
― an excellent source of vitamins and minerals (WmC), Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:43 (twelve years ago) link
"that's some really wild stuff"
― buzza, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:44 (twelve years ago) link
In The Lounge of the Crimson King
― tylerw, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 16:46 (twelve years ago) link
More on Belew's fourth-rate David Byrne impersonation - "I repeat myself under stress, I repeat myself under stress." Geddit? Hilarious, eh? Anybody who finds that remotely amusing in any way should be avoided.
Dave Q really killed it on this thread, huh? I like lots of KC but I hardly ever find myself playing them. When I do, it's either Larks' Tongues or Beat.
― Clarke B., Wednesday, 27 July 2011 18:29 (twelve years ago) link
I think Belew's a pretty terrible lyricist but that was kinda the point, right? The lyrics weren't supposed to stand out. It was all about the music at that point.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 27 July 2011 18:31 (twelve years ago) link
Met this guy tonight who said he'd done tarot card readings with Adrian Belew, back in '83 or so
the story just got weirder from there
― geeta, Tuesday, 27 September 2011 07:54 (twelve years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILSVAUjd5QI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
― nostormo, Saturday, 4 February 2012 13:35 (twelve years ago) link
Fripp speaks
― Elvis Telecom, Saturday, 4 August 2012 20:10 (eleven years ago) link
excellent...wish it was longer
― frogbs, Saturday, 4 August 2012 20:18 (eleven years ago) link
2009 Crimson, with Porcupine Tree drummer as second drummer, was awesome live.
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 4 August 2012 21:28 (eleven years ago) link
so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of Larks' Tongue In Aspic?
http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916
― EZ Snappin, Monday, 13 August 2012 19:48 (eleven years ago) link
Just registered for DJM live site just so I could hear a sparse guide track for "Islands" the song. Boz sounds like he's singing into a cheap condenser mike, but otherwise it's quite lovely.
'Islands' is the worst album ever made by anybody.― dave q, Friday, February 15, 2002 7:00 PM (10 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
NO.
― Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:19 (eleven years ago) link
its kind of weird to imagine that King Crimson only played a fixed amount of concerts when they were active. it feels like they're able to just create more and more live bootleg material at will, even if it was phyiscally impossible for them to have played that many dates.
― frogbs, Monday, 13 August 2012 20:20 (eleven years ago) link
So many of them are pretty dodgy quality though, aren't they?
― Ermahgerd Thomas (Dan Peterson), Monday, 13 August 2012 20:21 (eleven years ago) link
http://static.rateyourmusic.com/lk/l/w/dd360157ea8e506661983ea7336800bc/4330188.gif
― frogbs, Friday, 17 August 2012 13:23 (eleven years ago) link
classic:
'released in three separate editions to satisfy the merely curious and the expectant collector'
― j., Friday, 17 August 2012 14:31 (eleven years ago) link
so, who is buying the 13 CD, 1 DVD, 1 Blu-Ray of /Larks' Tongue In Aspic/?http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916
http://www.dgmlive.com/news.htm?entry=3916
― Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 20 August 2012 03:26 (eleven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWaz8xfFjuE
― Three Word Username, Monday, 20 August 2012 06:50 (eleven years ago) link
i think Islands is the only 70s one I don't play much and even it I don't hate.
― earosmith (Neanderthal), Friday, 11 August 2023 21:12 (seven months ago) link
the first half of it is remarkably pretty (though how often do you hear free jazz played upon a marching rhythm like that?) - second half kinda goes to hell in a cool way. it's that same brassy swinging jazzrock they do on Schizoid Man and Pictures of a City but those are a lot more structured jams, where the whole band starts and stops on a dime. here there are long sections where everyone's just playing at once - like from 15:30, I hear two separate lines from Mel Collins, mellotron howling all over the place, dissonant guitar, and then eventually some piano over the top...but they all sound like they're playing a different song! like some of the bits interact well together, but all at once? it's wild. the only thing keeping it grounded is Andy McCullough. (btw, one great thing about the remaster is you actually get to hear all this fairly clearly)
― frogbs, Friday, 11 August 2023 21:16 (seven months ago) link
also Indoor Games, while not "chaotic" exactly, still makes a lot of really odd choices. when you break it down it's quite a bit like "Easy Money"
― frogbs, Friday, 11 August 2023 21:17 (seven months ago) link
lizard still probably my favorite king crimson, agree Haskell gets a bad rap for no reason, it's a super weird record and he did his best, shame he never got to try it live, probably didn't want to, but I feel like the live crimson show was always better than the record
I do really like the clips I've heard of the islands lineup playing Cirkus
― Florin Cuchares, Saturday, 12 August 2023 04:06 (seven months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhMojknXvF4
― Florin Cuchares, Sunday, 13 August 2023 07:59 (seven months ago) link
Fripp going to be on this season of Live from Daryl’s House on Nov. 15: https://variety.com/2023/music/news/daryl-hall-live-from-daryls-house-returns-1235772685/
― Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 31 October 2023 00:24 (four months ago) link
since i'd not really listened to the label-killed hall tracks off exposure til like two days ago, i'm pretty up for that it like, feels current to me
― BEWARE! SPOOKY! BOO! (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 31 October 2023 02:30 (four months ago) link
yesssssss
love Sacred Songs so much
often wonder about the alternate timeline where Hall is singer of 80s crimson
― Florin Cuchares, Tuesday, 31 October 2023 02:38 (four months ago) link
In that fever dream, Matte Kudasai turns back into North Star. I am stoked for this as well.
― Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 31 October 2023 02:45 (four months ago) link
The new movie was way more interesting than I thought it would be. I'd write more but my brain isn't allowing me to string two sentences together coherently this week.
― Kate (rushomancy), Monday, 13 November 2023 19:02 (four months ago) link
Two alternate timelines: Hall singer for 80s Crimson, Sylvian for the 90s one.In both cases I wonder what they would have gotten to do during all the extended instrumental parts that are a given in KC's music. Be the band's resident keyboard accompanyist? Could (have) be(en).
― Max Florian, Monday, 13 November 2023 21:57 (four months ago) link
sylvian plays guitar and not poorly; obv he's not belew, but he's on par with jakko if he wants to be.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 13 November 2023 22:33 (four months ago) link
I don't think so, respectfully. Jakko is on a par with Belew technically. Sylvian's proficiency level with instruments is on a par with Bowie's, I'd say. He can be very creative with guitar sounds and looping and pedals use, and conjuring up interesting chord progressions on it, but that's a whole other ball game we're talking about that doesn't earn you Crimso membership/staying power. Still, if Fripp saw Crimson material in him...
― Max Florian, Monday, 13 November 2023 23:16 (four months ago) link
Sylvian played guitar and keys on the Sylvian/Fripp tour, and while he was not on par with the other people (few are), the fact that he could keep up in that context is still impressive. So, probably a bit better than Bowie, who iirc rarely bothered to play much on stage.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 November 2023 23:25 (four months ago) link
i think about the film a lot
― meat and two vdgg (emsworth), Monday, 13 November 2023 23:27 (four months ago) link
yeah, I mean, I think that a Crimson with Sylvian would have essentially been The First Day/Damage, probably more stuff that sounded like Firepower and Darshan.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 13 November 2023 23:44 (four months ago) link
That would have been dope. I like Belew, but Sylvian is clearly a much better songwriter.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 00:01 (four months ago) link
xp to self - kind of feel the film is fascinating in how it explores the psychological landscape of the band (and by extension bands generally - although KC of course a particularly interesting subject)
but also - something implicit about the tired tour bus old men vibes, and the "end of Crimson" vibes, and the stuff with Bill Rieflin -
it feels like it speaks to something wider in the culture, about rock music being this form that a few generations raised to this exalted level, and imbued with youthful hopes and dreams and ideals of freedom
and now all the old gods are dying and there is maybe this sense of the house lights coming on and the whole thing being seen as a collective delusion, which of course it is/was
like, i'm almost 50 and have been extremely invested in music (playing/watching/listening) - it has defined my life like nothing else
and this film feels like it is quite equivocal about that commitment, there is an air of "was it worth it?" that floats around everything and it withholds a final opinion on that question in a way that really vibes with my own feelings at this point
OR maybe i'm projecting
― meat and two vdgg (emsworth), Tuesday, 14 November 2023 00:04 (four months ago) link
for me it's not even a question of "is it worth it?" it's more a question of "why?" why is this band still around after fifty years? what is it that drives them to keep performing? why does fripp still practice 4-5 hours a day?
and the answers _are_ equivocal i think. it does reflect on me, i'm someone who's spent a lot of her life listening to them. they've made a pretty big difference in my life, as bands go
and to me it brings to light the ways in which i've changed. fripp is all about being in the moment but to him that like... requires everything to be perfect. it takes tremendous effort, for him, to meet the moment, and every time he doesn't, he feels like his mother's just died.
i try to be better at accepting failure, these days.
― Kate (rushomancy), Tuesday, 14 November 2023 00:59 (four months ago) link
great posts you two, I think about this stuff whenever I go to the local prog night. there are some younger folks (I mean people like me who are still under 40) but most of it are people who were there. I've heard stories about buying The Lamb on release day, about getting stoned and playing "Echoes" by Floyd so loud you get the cops called, about seeing ELP in 1973 when they were the absolute shit. like they were playing stadiums and arenas, I can't even imagine what it would be like to hear young people going absolutely mental over music like that. but, y'know, that was 50 years ago. I wonder what's gonna happen once these dudes all start kicking it. there are still prog bands out there and some of them are really good but so much of it clearly harkens back to that date.
that said I did see Steve Hackett with some of these folks a couple weeks back and it ruled. actually made me pretty emotional in spots because I never thought I'd get to see music like that. idk I think in some sense as bands like The Beatles, Van Halen, the Stones, Zep etc. start to lose their cultural cache prog still lives on somehow. like I think Steven Wilson is probably more popular at the moment than any other 70s imitators, minus maybe Greta Van Fleet. I haven't thought about this much though I admit
― frogbs, Tuesday, 14 November 2023 03:40 (four months ago) link
Fripp on Live From Daryl's House: A VIBE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PAHYXc3gcw
― Davey D, Wednesday, 15 November 2023 20:34 (four months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkb783rNjO0
― Davey D, Wednesday, 15 November 2023 20:35 (four months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd7BdzzY8BQ
Truly life-giving content!
― meat and two vdgg (emsworth), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 21:02 (four months ago) link
O_O hell yes
― brimstead, Wednesday, 15 November 2023 21:14 (four months ago) link
i love how fripp presents as an awkward weirdo who is trying his best to mimic authentic human behaviour (i identify) - and then this colliding with the also weird LA session vibe - and everyone doing their best to make it feel natural and cool for the bonhomie vibes of the show - and then the music totally rips and suddenly the vibe is authentically golden - so good!
― meat and two vdgg (emsworth), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 21:52 (four months ago) link
The bits before and after the playing are definitely the best
― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 21:54 (four months ago) link
The image of Daryl Hall and Robert Fripp attending a Ramones show together is gonna stick in my head.
― Tahuti Watches L&O:SVU Reruns Without His Ape (unperson), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 21:58 (four months ago) link
convinced that fripp is a much more normal person than he likes to portray himself.
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 22:00 (four months ago) link
that's an incredible "babs and babs," damn
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 22:13 (four months ago) link
it's great but I wanted fripp's solo to be like 5x longer
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 22:41 (four months ago) link
to be fair, you could say that about almost any song with a Fripp solo
― out-of-print LaserDisc edition (sleeve), Wednesday, 15 November 2023 22:49 (four months ago) link
Having spent some time with him I can attest to the fact that you’d never mistake him for “normal” (his affect and way of speaking/carrying himself are just too otherworldly) but he’s incredibly funny (like, constantly) and he has a very big heart.
― Davey D, Wednesday, 15 November 2023 23:32 (four months ago) link
Goddamn that Bab and Babs!
― Davey D, Wednesday, 15 November 2023 23:33 (four months ago) link
Can't wait to watch that. But did watch the first minute or so in the kitchen, and come on, what are the odds that the chef's name would be Belew?
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 15 November 2023 23:35 (four months ago) link
A. Belew, even!
― nickn, Thursday, 16 November 2023 00:47 (four months ago) link
convinced that fripp is a much more normal person than he likes to portray himself.― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm)
― I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm)
idk the vibe i get from him is similar to the vibe i get from autistic folks who do not give a shit about what neurotypicals expect from them, they will fucking stim in public if it makes them comfortable
― Kate (rushomancy), Thursday, 16 November 2023 01:01 (four months ago) link
This is awesome. I think I mention this previously up thread, but the one tome I saw a Robert Fripp solo performance, he was like stand-up comic funny.
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Thursday, 16 November 2023 02:40 (four months ago) link
What a wonderful audience.
I went to the circus the other day and I hear two people whispering. I think they're talking about me and I start to get angry then I walk by one of the cages to confront them and this creature with big ears apologizes and says "sorry sugar it's just elephant talk"
― a very very unfair (Neanderthal), Thursday, 16 November 2023 02:45 (four months ago) link
that was great, didn't think I was gonna watch the whole thing but I did. I didn't know Hall's voice was still that great. also the boogie-woogie piano on top of "Red" was really cool, certainly KC never would've performed it that way. I agree the vibe there is great, feels like one of those performances where everyone's trying to elevate the game because they're all so damn good.
when I first got into KC I read a lot about Fripp and he seemed like a massive prick but yeah I think he's one of those guys you have to actually hear talk and interact with others to get a sense of what he's really like. because nothing he does really translates well to the written word, like he's incredibly funny in a way that might feel awkward and mean if you just read about it. and yeah I'd wager he's def somewhere on the spectrum, as I suspect a lot of these weirdo perfectionist musicians are
― frogbs, Thursday, 16 November 2023 15:19 (four months ago) link
That was a great watch. Touching, even. Would love a Sacred Songs tour with this crew.
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 18 November 2023 15:19 (four months ago) link
Maybe he was just caught up in the moment, but Daryl mentioned multiple times throughout the show working together further with Robert. In fact, they end on the whole band talking about learning five more songs to keep it going. Anyway, agreed with what everyone is saying here. The music was great, the arrangements were interesting, and the whole thing was really quite touching. And then, after all the great band performances, concluding with The Farther Away I Am—a Daryl-Robert duet on piano, vocal, and Soundscapes—just seemed to reinforce how unique and special the connection between these two is and remains almost five decades later.
― Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 18 November 2023 16:59 (four months ago) link
Would definitely see a Fripp & Hall tour. Sacred Songs is the only Daryl Hall album that I listen to from start-to-finish. (The only music from Daryl Hall that I have outside of that is a homemade compilation of Hall & Oates cuts.)
FWIW, a Hall-only Exposure plays great too. I think the version Fripp would ultimately release is really THE one - he did turn what was originally a negative into major positive, discovering several vocalists worked better than one - but if he could only have one singer, Hall would've been it.
― birdistheword, Saturday, 18 November 2023 22:04 (four months ago) link
finally saw the 50th anniversary doc. found it very moving and also funny as hell. Fripp kinda leaned into the "son of a bitch" persona he's built over the years but over time it just kind of becomes apparent that he is obsessed, often to unhealthy degrees, with attaining the unattainable.
Bill Rieflin segments extremely poignant but inspiring at the same time.
found Fripp's comments about Jakko not 'standing in anybody's shadows' and being a giant in his own right a pretty awesome moment.
the crowd reactions largely mirrored how the crowd looked when I saw them in 2020. everybody locked in, nobody turned away, on their phone, distracted, everyone transfixed and vibing rhythmically to the sounds.
― Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 January 2024 17:58 (two months ago) link
nobody turned away, on their phone, distracted
Agreed, though at the same time ...
King Crimson's photo policy is notorious. Before every concert, they post signs on the stage that say:"Good evening ladies and gentlemenWelcome to the showNow that you are in the venue pleaserefrain from taking any picturesusing a camera or your phoneuntil the very end of the showor you may be asked to leavethank you..."
"Good evening ladies and gentlemenWelcome to the showNow that you are in the venue pleaserefrain from taking any picturesusing a camera or your phoneuntil the very end of the showor you may be asked to leavethank you..."
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 16 January 2024 18:44 (two months ago) link
they had that posted at my show but being that it was an outdoor show in inclement weather in 2020, I don't think there were the usual number of people enforcing it. i didn't have any issue with complying as I was pretty engrossed.
― Disco Biollante (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 16 January 2024 18:52 (two months ago) link
Yeah same here. If you really needed a photo, at least they all stayed on the stage at the very end (also taking photos of the audience, which I thought was cute).
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 16 January 2024 20:26 (two months ago) link
Bill Bruford's got a pretty great YouTube channel - I'm just skimming through it now, but one of these weekends when the weather's shitty, I'm going to spend it watching everything on there. Pretty amazing to see the Red-era Crimson performing - I've got a ton of their recordings but unless I've forgotten, I don't think I've ever seen live footage of them, at least footage that was decent quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVzTmp3ZV4o
Also lots more with the Discipline-era group, including some from the tour where they opened for Roxy Music in 1982.
― birdistheword, Tuesday, 30 January 2024 05:08 (one month ago) link
I'm also finally watching the doc. I was an idiot for not going to see them on the last tour, I remember driving past the venue on my way to whatever.
― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Wednesday, 27 March 2024 17:19 (two days ago) link