The Shaggs

considering they didnt know how to play their instruments when they recorded their first record

By the way, didn't we just do this?

i turned around and headed for home / i had learnt my lesson never to roam, never to roam, never to roam

MY COMPANION IS WITH ME WHEREVER I GO
EVEN WHEN I GO TO A SHOW
MY COMPANION IS, OF COURSE, MY RADIO

Gods. Philosophy of the World is one of my all-time favorite albums. Shaggs Own Thing I can take or leave. They were FAR FAR better songwriters than everybody gives them credit for.

Experiment: Find out the year and month of the "Shaggs' Own Thing" LP's initial release; compare to every song released during same month.

Of course, this is all assuming one needs empirical evidence to substantiate one's beliefs. Personally, I don't need the scientific method: My heart vouches for the truth of my belief that "Painful Memories" is a legitimately great song, and woe unto him (forgive me, but "woe unto him-or-her" just ain't righteous enough) who says otherwise.

I wonder who their favorite bands/artists were when they were recording those albums.

And why not? It's great!

I agree that "charming" is the best word for the Shaggs - a quality I personally never discerned in the early works of, say, Half Japanese (among other bands doing the total-incompetence thing), which explains why Half Jap gave me none of the enjoyment that the Shaggs did.

Coupla minor notes: 1. I can kinda understand the "Trout Mask" comparisons, but they remind me more of The Slits, which leads me to suspect that S. Osborne liked 'em a lot. 2. I'm curious whether Nitsuh's ancient throwaway Frank Zappa remarks allowed for the fact that Zappa liked the Shaggs (albeit for extra-musical reasons, one suspects.)

Which is funny because parts of the Slits, or even other groups like the Raincoats and Kleenex had things about their music that reminded me of Beefheart.

off-Broadway musical opening next month:

http://www.theshaggsmusical.com/

http://www.theshaggsmusical.com/synopsis.htm

sounds a laff....

CMD+f "foot" not found...wtf

Hah!

What a lovable band. I took part in a rock lottery once, where a ton of people, many of whom didn't play instruments, threw their names into a hat and were placed into impromptu bands that were to perform in a month or so. I had hoped that they would all sound like the Shaggs! One or two did, and totally lit up the night of performances. The duds were all the bands that had people that "could really play", and thus didn't try to do anything fun or dynamic really. Life really just lacks more Shaggs-like resources, and I am truly glad that I have this one at least.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00gtsj3

That was awesome. Thanks for posting it!

oh!

Thanks for posting that. I didn't see it in that short doc, but Terry Adams owns film footage of them playing the town hall back in the day (no sound though, unfortunately). Irwin Chusid showed it when he was touring around for the Songs in the Key of Z book/cd maybe 10 years ago.

Kinda sneaky how he stresses the absence of musical influence - they are called "Caspar Hausers", when it's clearly stated on the album that they carry their radio everywhere they go.

they did have musical influences though -- not very hip ones, but still. they weren't raised in a cave. i think they were into herman's hermits.

Great wee piece. I wanted to hear more from the Wiggs though. Did they hate every minute of making this music? Do they actually hate their Dad for what he did? Its hard to tell. We need to know more about the father. Seems like a pretty bizzare fellow- calling time on these tracks cos he knew they were done. Also would have liked questions about the lyrics - naive they may have been but also beautiful and true.

Playwrights Horizons and New York Theatre Workshop will co-produce the New York premiere of the musical The Shaggs: Philosophy of the World in the spring of 2011. The show will be presented off-Broadway at Playwrights Horizons, directed by John Langs

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/152855/nyc-premiere-of-the-shaggs-to-be-co-produced-by-playwrights-horizons-and-nytw/

A musical!

Huh.

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_shaggs_dot_wiggin_returns_after_four_decades_with_a_new_band_and_album

OMG

OM

G

holy hell

HALF JAPANESE, THE DOT WIGGIN BAND (ex Shaggs)
THE TINKLERS and BOISTER
November 7th at the Ottobar in Baltimore. ALL AGES

hell yeah, you go dot wiggin!! this is delightful news

Yes!!

p sure I read about this a few weeks ago? not trying to do firsties here cos I thought it was on ILX!

Pfork covered this almost 2 months ago

You guys ever heard Y. Bhekhirst? He's like a one-man 80's Eastern European version of The Shaggs.

http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/07/hot_in_the_airp.html

I find this album weirdly moving. It's like it's from another world, one uncontaminated with evil, cynicism, unkindness, and oppression. Also, Hypnogogic.

If you've never actually taken the time to listen all the way through... do it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQqK1CjE9bA

the opening track actually moves me to tears. :(

yes opening track is great, i also love the drumming on "my pal foot foot", great album

obviously, this is a favorite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoiB6OsQV1Q

Video removed? That was quick..

what was it?

Live film of the Shaggs playing at one of their town hall dances.

It's gone already? The shots of the crowd "dancing" were amazing.

Not sure if this was the same Terry Adams/Irwin Chusid footage I'd mentioned upthread a few years ago, but it was really sweet to see them in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyeAgl1Hnqg

LOL at the dancing

any idea about how many original LPs are thought still to be floating around?

http://www.discogs.com/sell/release/3325304?ev=rb

Last Sold: Never
Lowest: --
Median: --
Highest: --

apparently one sold for 5k on ebay last year:
http://www.musicpriceguide.com/6557/The-Shaggs-Philosophy-Of-The-World-1969-vinyl-LP-SEALED-Third-World.html

they did have musical influences though -- not very hip ones, but still. they weren't raised in a cave. i think they were into herman's hermits.

― Nardil the Human MAOI (get bent), Friday, May 13, 2011 2:47 PM (4 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't hear that, though. I listen to Trout Mask Replica and go, oh Howlin Wolf, but there isn't a song on Philosophy of the World that sounds like Herman's Hermits. The way the instruments and vocals are structured seems to me like the Wiggins sisters created their music entirely on their own terms.

i honestly think a sealed copy of that record is worth five thousand dollars. more priceless than a stupid rolex.

yeah, 5k seems reasonable - the guy asking 10k sounds like he doesn't actually want to sell. I wonder if he'd take a 5-6k offer (not because I will make the offer, just wondering)

This sounds like a (quite good) normal radio pop song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ny2pV-CCxQ

Yeah, that's quite a bit more conventional than "My Pal Foot Foot."

damn, I live about 15 minutes away from Fremont & had considered going on a pilgrimage/drive-by to the old Wiggin homestead, but this doesn't seem too promising:

A few years after Austin died, Betty and Dot married and moved to their own houses, and eventually Annie sold the house on Beede Road and moved to an apartment nearby. After a while, the house’s new owner complained to people in town that Austin’s ghost haunted the property. As soon as he could afford it, the new owner built something bigger and nicer farther back on the property, and allowed the Fremont Fire Department to burn the old Wiggin house down for fire-fighting practice.

Well, you can't always please everybody in this world.

Do we still care? Shaggs' Dot Wiggin Reflects on Divisive 'Philosophy of the World' Album

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/shaggs-reflect-on-divisive-philosophy-of-the-world-album-w437682

Philosophy of the World was just reissued. I thought they might stick a lot of Shaggs Own Thing on but it looks like it's just the 12 track lp.
I had a copy of the Rounder vinyl reissue I bought in the mid 80s after reading the review in an earlier NME from when it was reissued at the start of the 80s. May need to get the cd.

Are there any good covers of the band around? Is that possible?
I had a version of My Pal Foot Foot by a Japanese impro group that extended it greatly but not sure how recognisable it was or if I still have it.

Was Shaggs Own Thing worth having?

Deerhoof - My Pal Foot Foot

Thinking Fellers Union Local 282 from that same album:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Better_than_the_Beatles

Seem to recall some underwhelming versions of Shaggs songs from recent years by some jazz performers.

Ah found it. My Band Foot Foot. From 2007, how time flies. Some serious players, but sometimes they miss the point.

I even started a thread at the time: My Band Foot Foot

Yeah did wonder if the fact that the approximation would be intentional would devalue any musical content and just leave a not very good joke or intentional quirkiness.
But some of those Wiggins drum rhythms always reminded me of the Swans. So did wonder if there was any way of taking a positive influence from them.
trying to d/load that Better than teh Beatles but not sure if it's actually seeded.

God, hadn't heard before how old the sisters were at the time the lp cover photo was shot. I assumed they were years younger, 22, 21 and 18.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1999/09/27/meet-the-shaggs

I'm interested in hearing how some of you encountered the Shaggs, and your initial rections, and if that reaction changed at all after time.

Hearing them recently, I had the thought that if they were completely unknown, and I came upon their record in some old dusty attic, I absolutely would feel the thrill of having discovered something significant, and I'd be shouting their name from the rooftops.

That said, I do not think I've ever listended to 'Philosophy' all the way through even once. Their music is fascinating as an anthropological study, and their is something about the extreme dissonance and weirdness that I find thrilling. But only in small doses. I like trying to guess what music the girls grew up on, and how any of that even could have influenced their work. I mean, there are no standard chord progressions and no attempt at verse-chorus-verse at all. How could four band members agree to practice and play and record something so weird and arbitrary and unprecedented?? I'm not sure that sentence makes any sense.

reactions. hopefully no erections

There is verse-chorus-verse...

I bought Philosophy of the World 15-20 years ago out of curiosity. My first reaction was shock at the musical ineptitude — "How did this ever get released?" — and then laughter. I'd play it for friends as a joke. I don't subscribe to the notion that I simply don't understand what the girls were trying to do — that it's this free jazz concept carried over to pop, as a poster stated up thread. (I listen to, and enjoy, plenty of free jazz.)
However I do find the music fascinating, partly because it does seem to make sense to the people playing it. I also find some of the songs to be truly moving, even sad. Maybe that's because I read the Susan Orlean essay first; I'll never know for sure.

Sometime around 1998 or 1999, someone posted about The Shaggs on the Loud Family mailing list. I was intrigued by the descriptions (no audio clips were to be found online at that point) but couldn't find the album anywhere. When my parents went on vacation to California (I think it was), I sent along a list of CDs for them to look for that I couldn't find back home (as was my tradition whenever my parents went somewhere) and one of the discs they returned home with was Philosophy of the World. Twenty seconds in to the title track, I was laughing my head off.

I've lent the album out to curious friends over the years, and I'm pretty sure I included "My Pal Foot Foot" on a couple of mix tapes/CDs back in the day. I still own the album; it even survived, as numerous objectively better albums did not, The Great CD Purge of 2015.

Think I must have picked it up on vinyl sometime mid 80s. Was just remembering talking about it in New York so must be by 86 at latest.
Read it reviewed somewhere possibly the NME for the Rounder reissue.
Have loved Pal Foot Foot since hearing it.
Picked up a cd version of it over Xmas.

Also interesting to read about the scam about the initial pressing as related in a recent Ugly Things that recounted the story of the scam artist.

It gets weird in places starts sounding like it is being done too well so it's being faked. So interesting to see video footage of the band at work at one of their gigs.

I'd read about them in the AMG books and occasionally in mags--a couple short bits in Mojo and/or Spin stand out (particularly a review of the partial reunion show in NYC w/a crying Georgia Hubley in the audience) alongside the write-up in The Secret History of Rock--but I never actually heard them until the DJs running a College Radio '60s show started spinning them in the mid-'00s. The drumming really stood out. I later picked up the BMG CD reissue of Philosophy... cheap on Amazon*. I haven't listened in awhile (all CDs in storage rn), but it always struck me as inside-out bubblegum with surprisingly strong hooks--and those accents!

*If I'd held out for a few more years, I could have picked it up for a fiver in person at Fry's when they had a huge budget music selection; how surreal it felt to walk into a massive big box store and see THE SHAGGS front and center rubbing shoulders w/80s Dylan and early Allman Bros. and other Classic Rock staples. Wonder how many copies the chain actually sold?

Really enjoyed this interview with Dot (by the person who introduced me to The Shaggs):
https://www.thetrapset.net/272-dot-wiggin-the-shaggs/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcvDjy3fvs

As the band’s primary songwriter, she is the author of some of the most astonishingly unique, life-affirming music ever recorded.

I think the joke has run its course.