TS: Gary Numan's Replicas Vs. The Pleasure Principle

I would also argue that the juvenile Phil Dick stuff isn't quite as saturated on PP...

Also, as iconic pop imagery goes, that weird pink pyramid isn't too shabby.

(insert smiley)

The package was completed by the new promo video format, which was tailor made for Numan's assault on the adolescent audience. Cars' futurist chic defined the artist as much as his dyed jet-black hair and truculent on-stage expression. The artwork for the early releases, including The Pleasure Principle, was also important in establishing Numan as a new star. "The album cover is a parody of the Rene Magritte painting, The Pleasure Principle. In the painting a man is sitting at a desk, with his body turned towards a small rock to his left, on the edge of a desk. He's wearing a business suit and instead of a head there's white light coming from out of the neck. The reason why I'm looking at a glowing pyramid is that it just happened to be lying around the studio and I thought, that looks cool."

so it's pleasure principle, but barely.

And to think of the HOURS I spent as a six year-old wondering what the fuck that was. Serves me right.

I should add, btw, that me into this as a six year-old had less to do with me being hip than being impressed by the other first-grader who had it. And I think he heard it through his brother.

well, i liked it! until a couple of weeks ago, it was up on the machman's numan-fan webpage. i discovered it by accident -- it's pretty interesting (and apparently rare), very late-70s, w/ lots of pics of a power plant and gazza getting zapped with electricity. stuff like that :-)

But what I like best about the Numan reissues is their totally frank sleevenotes - that comment about the pyramid is typical. On the reissue of 'I Assassin', the sleevenotes say about one song, 'the less said about this track, the better'. Who apart from Gaz would have the nerve and the honesty to have such even-handed, honest, critical appraisals of his own work on the sleeves? He is quite disarming in interviews, the way he avoids personal hyperbole. I guess 15 years of incessant press citicism have knocked a few corners off his ego.

But Telekon beats both.

And 'I, Assassin' beats all three.

'Warriors' is a good album.

I finally saw 'Urgh a Music War' the other night, and the Numan performance of 'Down in the Park' made me so happy. The neon light show, the smoke machine, the band playing their parts in their hermetically sealed glass boxes, and when you realize that Numan's not going to get out of his little pyramid space-mobile, he's just going to sing the whole song while driving it around in circles around on the stage while frowning and staring....

long way of saying -- where are all you brits on this thread, then?

From then on Numan becomes a singles artist. The Fury (1985) would be a lot better if he didn't use that new keyboard he got. Pretty bad production in my opinion. Still, have the songs are good (especially the ballads). The more atospheric 'Strange Charm' (1986) has maybe two good tracks, neither of which are even memorable though. You can tell Numan had run out of ideas. From then on he wouldn't break the one-album-per-year tradition. 'Metal Rhythm' (1988) is cheesy white funk. It's okay if you're in the right mood, but it all begins to sound the same. I wouldn't bother. And definitely avoid 'Outland' (1991?) and 'Machine and Soul' (1992), which are almost totally worthless. It's like they got New Kids on the Block's backing band for 'Outland'. I don't even totally remember what 'M + Soul' sounds like anymore really, but I know it sucks. I think it even has two prince covers.

Of the Goth Years: 'Pure' (2000) is probably his best. I'm not a fan of the heavy guitars either, but the synths and his voice create a pretty spooky atmosphere. 'Exile' (1997) is sort of similar, but not as memorable really. And 'Sacrifice' (1994) sounds like his really old stuff on a few good tracks, but I really wish he'd lose the drum loops. The album could have benefitted from better production. Frankly, I'm not thrilled with where Numan is headed. Leave God and the Devil and whatever out of the material, tone it down a notch, and write some catchy songs. A few remixes on 'Hybrid' had the right idea. The fact that his upcoming album is titled 'Jagged Halo' isn't the best sign.

His teacher? That's Palladino himself on the album...

haha also pretty much the starting point of his career

Colin--If I had it to do all over again...wouldn't change a thing!

Here's a questions: What's with Numan's fascination with singing about "boys" (especially in the mid to later '80s)?!

And what about "boys" as simpler 80s-centric Dick-style emblem of anemia, unreality, artificiality, alienation, the posteverything continuum, etc?

New thread: discuss Gary's footwear only on Dance gatefold (I have no theories).

Ned--I am afraid not! Pino only plays on 'I, Assassin'.

Ah, see, I read too quickly and I thought that's the album you were talking about!

Hey, who's dissing his footwear on the 'Dance' insert? He has similar white loafers (is that what you call them) that can be seen on the 'I, Assassin' cover. Do you think the macho choice of dress for 'Warriors' was him trying to prove his manliness? This was right after he started flying planes in order to prove to his dad that he was a man and not some makeup-wearer. Then again, he went right back with makeup on the 'Berserker' cover, so who knows.

That 'Replicas Rubato' album looks interesting. Thanks to whoever posted the link. I'm trying to download it. Pretty good selection of songs (like "Sister Surprise", "Dream of Siam", "Cry the Clock Said"). That site has an interesting essay too.

Right now I'm listening to Numan's four albums released between '80 and '83.

Agree %100. Japan is so so awesome.

Saw Numan tonight playing all of The Pleasure Principle. Tremendously great - wish "Tracks" could have lasted for hours.

Bonus points to his band for keeping the finesse of the old stuff without being totally retro about it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gary-numan-the-pleasure-principle-book-/270984579084?_trksid=p4340.m1374&_trkparms=algo%3DPI.WATCH%26its%3DC%252BS%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D15%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8788535700789776774

check that price

unashamedly enjoy these, even the additional trenty piano part

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehMqEXUspfs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qlUFKFHNIU

it's so hard because even the bonus tracks to both are great - I love the live stretch of TPP where he does Bombers, Remember I Was Vapor, and the cover of On Broadway using the same beat the whole time, but some of those Replicas outtakes...

Sonically, TPP. Compositionally and lyrically, Replicas.

book sold for £850

Replicas for sure but I think I might like that first Tubeway Army lp better than either of those. But...what makes Replicas really swing is the drumming. It really warms that shit up.

I'm more likely to reach for Replicas over The Pleasure Principle, and I'm more likely to reach for Telekon or Dance over both of these albums. However, I couldn't choose between all four of those albums, I think they're all pretty damn great and I've had an excellent time listening to all of them at some point or another.

I think I might like that first Tubeway Army lp better than either of those.

otm

I like Tubeway Army plenty, but there's no way on Earth I'd rank it higher than Replicas or The Pleasure Principle. Some great songs on it, though: 'Listen To The Sirens', 'My Shadow In Vain', 'Something's In The House', 'Everyday I Die' etc. Although I think Numan did better versions of some of these tracks with his Pleasure Principle-era band on the Living Ornaments '79 album.

IMO the first album is on far with the next two - very different feel but it's like glam-techno rock and doesn't have any bad songs!

Yeah, it definitely does have a different feel to what came after, and that really isn't a bad thing at all. Don't get me wrong, I do have a lot of time for the album. I'd personally rank it after Replicas, The Pleasure Principle, Telekon, Dance and Sacrifice, with Pure and I, Assassin just behind it.

Or: Dance > Telekon > Replicas > The Pleasure Principle > Sacrifice > Tubeway Army > Pure > I, Assassin > everything else.

Dunno if it counts but I really dug the Hybrid album. A bit too far on the nu-metal goth thing but some of the remixes of the Pure tunes were great - I think he finally found the sound he was looking for.

Just finished listening to the Berserker-era live album "White Noise" - it's actually pretty good!

Ah, Berserker is such a frustrating album for me, because if Numan had spent more time on the songwriting than acquiring and pissing about with the then-latest technology and his record label it could have been fantastic. Sometimes I listen to Berserker and there are parts of a song which'll make me go: "fuck, that's a really great bit", but it'll be surrounded by bits that aren't so great. The best example I can give of this is the track 'The Secret', which must be one of the greatest, fist-pumping and (dare I say) uplifting choruses he's ever written. But everything else in the song completely sucks!

"A Child With The Ghost" is like that as well, great chorus but the verses really slump.

From the show back in 2010. May have posted this elsewhere, but it's THAT GOOD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gmmWbaKsY4

^my favorite Numan song

what else sounds like this stuff (besides Bowie & Iggy albums from the same time period)?

Early Ultravox has the synth/rock hybrid sound too.

I assume you mean pre-Vienna

Metamatic

Systems of Romance and Vienna by Ultravox, the first two Visage albums, Magazine's Secondhand Daylight, Quiet Life and Gentlemen Take Polaroids by Japan, Empires and Dance and Sons and Fascination by Simple Minds.

I guess the first two John Foxx solo albums fit too, even though Metamatic takes a slightly different approach to Numan 1979-1980, stuff like 'Underpass' fits. Non-album single 'Miles Away' definitely does.

while we're on the topic did anyone else think the title of that song was "Underpants" for a long time

No, you were the only one :P

thx guys - some of this stuff (Japan, Ultravox "Vienna") I'm familiar with, will check out the rest

Metamatic is more to Telekon or Dance, as it is more full electronic sound. That said, Metamatic's sound holds up pretty well for a nearly a 30 year old synth pop record.

I just listened to the first two Ultravox records in a mix with early PIL, Wire, Cabaret Voltaire and others of that turn of the decade sound and their sound fit in very well.

I don't really know of any other electronic rock music that feels like Pleasure Principle. Its sound to me is primarily defined by a patient loping which is heavy as fuck. Other records which have that feel are all by solidly guitar based artists. I don't know of anyone else using mostly synths to go to that place. It is in retrospect such an obvious idea. Synths of that time were heavy as living fuck if you only had the simplicity to let them be so.

digging Ultravox's "Quiet Men", that hits the spot

agree that Numan's setup in this era seems both unique and sort of "duh, why had no one thought of this before". Sorta like the Ramones.

Yeah not a lot else has that Numan crunch... I want to say Gary Wright for some reason lol

The impressive thing about The Pleasure Principle is that there's no guitar on it at all. In fact, it's probably the only guitar-less Numan album.