critic's darlings

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Mekons, Pere Ubu

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Monday, 17 February 2003 21:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ja Rule!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 21:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

my sister is not a rock critic, james

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 February 2003 21:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

that ain't what I heard!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 21:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

village voice bicycle HA HA HA

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Wilco, obviously!

― hstencil, Monday, 17 February 2003 22:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Except that's not true.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

Young Marble Giants

― jillian (jillian), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Pixies? I don't think there's anyone on the planet who doesn't like them.

― Callum (Callum), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:19 (twenty-one years ago) link

people who caught them on that last tour maybe

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

IMPERIAL TEEN.

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

Baxendale

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Why everyone doesn't love Imperial Teen is beyond me.

― jillian (jillian), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Because they're not that good maybe?

― Callum (Callum), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

But they are!

― a critic (nabisco), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Freelance Hellraiser

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'm not a critic and i like most of the bands on this thread, well not the first three but the rest

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

If you don't like Pere Ubu you suck.

― Callum (Callum), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

Vortis

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeah, what the fuck is it with Pere Ubu? Does anyone actually LISTEN to them? Them and the fucking Red Krayola. Why do they exist? No one says anything negative about them EVER, but they're boring as shit.

― ian Johnson, Monday, 17 February 2003 22:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

i do not like Pere Ubu. It's 95% because of the voice

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

vocals, not village

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeah, what the fuck is it with Pere Ubu? Does anyone actually LISTEN to them?

Um, yes. I do. Quite a lot.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

But I'm sure I'm delusional or lying or something -- if ian Johnson doesn't like them, anyone else who claims to like 'em must be a total fraud.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

I love 'em! Dave Thomas kicked the Pixies' ass on that last tour!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

International Noise Conspiracy.

― gazuga (gazuga), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

as for pere ubu, i have listened to very little else lately (aside from xtc and disco inferno and the dead c)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Which XTC, Jess?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

i listen to the dead c for the lyrics

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pere Ubu roxx UR a breeder

― Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Hrvatski

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Stereophonics.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm gonna put on the Datapanik box set right now to piss Mr. Johnson off.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Stereophonics? No, they need to die.

― Callum (Callum), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

pretty much everything from drums & wires through skylarking, but esp english settlement (as it is my favorite)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 February 2003 22:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

I listen to Pere Ubu...the early work..."Heart of Darkness" is good. The later stuff, I have to be in the mood. I think some other people besides critics listen to them, but none of them lives in Cuyahoga County.

I find it hard to listen to XTC any more; I made a compilation recently, it had stuff like "Jason and the Argonauts" and "Yacht Dance" and my very favorite, "Blame the Weather," but I got burned out on them just making the CD, so now I'm back to being sick of them.

I dunno, the Go-Betweens fall into that category. Going back a few convolutions of taste, Big Star, although I think ordinary people now appreciate them somewhat more.

― frank p. jones (frank p. jones), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:11 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Go-Betweens seem like the classic definition of a critic's band, though it's weird they didn't get any pazz & jopp love til the reunion album.

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

NRBQ.

I actually know lots of non-critics who like Young Marble Giants.

― mike a (mike a), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:14 (twenty-one years ago) link

(Mike, Gilmore Girls characters do not count!)

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:15 (twenty-one years ago) link

ha most bands more than 10 years old (but less than 30) are critics darlings

― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know any non-critics :(

Jess is right cf Men Without Hats

― Tom (Groke), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

I love YMG, and a lot of other bands mentioned. The question was about overwhelming critic love, not exclusive critic love.

― jillian (jillian), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

What bands would you say are admired almost exclusively by critics?
-- Kenan Hebert (mondria...), February 17th, 2003 10:41 AM.

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

What bands would you say are admired almost exclusively by critics?

Well, none of course. But people seem to be reading that into the question with their responses of: "But I Like That!"

― jillian (jillian), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Quintessencial critic darling rock band: YO LA TENGO

― JP Almeida (JP Almeida), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

blue oyster cult

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

(I'm beginning to think ILM is on an endless loop.)

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

it's like Cremaster!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

or Finnegan's Wake!

― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

Is Tom saying that Men Without Hats are critical favorites now, or is he just abusing sarcasm? Because if Men Without Hats are now critical favorites then HOORAY WE WON BREAK OUT THE CHAMPAGNE AND PUT ON "I GOT THE MESSAGE!"

― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 17 February 2003 23:42 (twenty-one years ago) link

Skipping 31 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

wait,,,critic 'types'?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, critic types bad things about Yo La Tengo on their computer-machine key-boards.

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Miss Rosen! Nate's accusing you of using bad grammer Miss Rosen!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

better ger yr hair did (copywritten 2001 missy elliot)

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

That's it Blount, you better be waiting under the flagpole at recess!

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:40 (twenty-one years ago) link

waiting under the flagpole - http://63.172.85.108/flagpole/FMPro?-db=reviews.fp5&-format=review2.htm&-lay=reviews&type=record&publish=yes&-op=cn&band=tatu&-recid=33562&-find=

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

Miss Rosen! Nate's accusing you of using bad grammer Miss Rosen!

Er, no he's not!

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

meanwhile - http://63.172.85.108/flagpole/FMPro?-db=reviews.fp5&-format=review2.htm&-lay=reviews&type=record&publish=yes&-op=cn&band=sigur%20ros&-recid=33517&-find=

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

Damn it, the flagpole is occupied by a Students for Jesus prayer circle group!

― Nate Patrin (Nate Patrin), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pavement doesn't really fit the criteria but most fans that I've talked to really hated "Terror Twilight" although I seem to remember it getting reasonable reviews.

― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 04:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

I don't know about Yo La Tengo -- maybe it's just that the critics have been successful, but at the point where they were serious critical darlings they had a pretty big fan base as well.

How about people like Aimee Mann (pre-Magnolia)? I tend to think "critical darling" mostly about this cadre of people who are making accessible pop music, to glowing reviews but decidedly non-pop sales. I imagine that some years ago there would have been plenty of critics claiming there's no stylistic reason Aimee Mann records shouldn't chart high, and then going on about how it's "the industry" or people's bad taste or something that's "keeping her down." (You know the type I mean, right -- the preferred middle-of-road singer-songwriters of top-level critics everywhere?)

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:07 (twenty-one years ago) link

nitsuh you sound like sterling

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

[rubs hands in an evil manner]

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:33 (twenty-one years ago) link

I tend to think "critical darling" mostly about this cadre of people who are making accessible pop music, to glowing reviews but decidedly non-pop sales.

Like Big Star?

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 05:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

Face it. NOBODY likes Baxendale. Nobody. Except for my psychotic wifebeater ex-boyfriend, but then again, last thing I heard, he was shagging their keyboardist. Ew! I feel unclean! It was bad enough we shared a record label with them, but this! Eeeeuuuwwww!!!

― kate, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 07:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

Oh but Jess, I said "top-level" critics specifically so I wouldn't! Also I like Aimee Mann.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 07:27 (twenty-one years ago) link

beck.
i don't mean his early stuff. but explain that last album to me? that snoozer made every critics list. they were comparing him to gordon lightfoot like it was a good thing. this was the only accurate live review i ever found ( i actually went to that show too). but maybe me and the reviewer were the only ones falling asleep, maybe everyone really did dig that stuff deep in their souls, not just cuz they paid admision and because it was beck and because the critics told them it was good. who's to say? the world is a mysterious place.

― lolita corpus (lolitacorpus), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 10:09 (twenty-one years ago) link

Erik Digibeet and I like Baxendale! And we are chanting "ONE OF US" in the direction of Nabiscuh!

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 10:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'm not a critic, but I happen to think the Mekons are one of the greatest bands of the past quarter century. Pere Ubu rocks too.

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 13:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

Yeah, the Mekons have caught on in the past few years. But there was a time...

― Kenan Hebert (kenan), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 15:43 (twenty-one years ago) link

Jerry, I only just got some Baxendale (from Amateurist's big sale). I've only listened to a quarter of it so far: I thought "Music for Girls" was great, but I got a little scared as the next few songs rolled out -- it got a bit too, umm, Divine Comedy for my tastes. But there's still about a 50-50 chance that I'll decide I like that upon further listens. Even if "Divine Comedy + Ladytron" as a description makes me shudder.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 17:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

I know a lot of critic types who hate YLT.

Good thing too.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:03 (twenty-one years ago) link

Ned, do you actively dislike YMG? The only responses I've seen to them have been: passionate fandom and indifference.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 18:44 (twenty-one years ago) link

YLT or YMG? Because I lurv YMG.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:51 (twenty-one years ago) link

What about YMO?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

YMMV

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:55 (twenty-one years ago) link

MMM, YMG. YMMY.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

YYY Delilah?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 19:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

WTF?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

i'm fed up with critics looking to sonic youth and expecting wisdom, taste, assuming a correctness or rightness, the sorts of things initially bestowed on newcomers by critcs hoping for a change in attitude, a lack of cynicism, fine things to expect of a rock band in theory but hopes i believe sonic youth can't be said to have lived up to anytime recently

and now sonic youth the institution, well they've "paid their dues" ? entitled to the benefit of the doubt ? they've achieved greatness some years ago ? they're enthusiatic patrons of others (with all the unpleasant indulgences associated with that word intact i'm afraid) ? asylum/geffen sponsored artistic cred for nirvana ? the godfathers of the grunge &/or industry (with the associations of those words intact) ?

yeah, it's that leadership and elder-statesmen positioning that the "critics look to sonic youth" for which grates so much, a position sonic youth would shrug their shoulders at with callow youthful ambiguity -- is the music industry that bad ?

bring in indie mock superstar o'rourke, with o'rourke protesting he ain't worthy in the media (cf: open-ended structured "collectives" like jackie-o, mothers temple or no-neck, or his collaborations with lesser mortals "groop" stereolab presumably of less import) and fingers crossed our team will lift their game

― george gosset (gegoss), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Los Lobos. Maybe not recently but I remember years back critics were masturbating over them. Does anyone here listen to them?

― fletrejet, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

george gosset's bitching about the props sonic youth receive is so out of proportion to the props sonic youth actually do receive it's hilarious; it's like bitching about eddie money being overrated again and again and again...

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

Nobody reads critics.

― Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

eddie money

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 20:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

I declare this thread STUPID!

(but seriously, no band could win this. too many college radio DJs aren't really critics, and they like all the same bands)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 21:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

captain beefheart must be the classic example. and thee album only loved by the critics must be trout mask replica. i still didn't get around to listen to the whole thing.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 21:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

oh, at least beefheart moved in and out of the spotlight quickly, with trout mask replica getting a bad hatchet job from "producer" zappa

having read zoot horn rollo's book on the magic band, i think of that album as an opportunity to produce a really interesting listen blown by a maybe jealous zappa -- the box set of parallel unreleased recordings cleared up what the band was really trying to achieve on that album, for me anway, and i see it as the more varese-like piece, the varese blues -- the patron got in the way, was there for the credit and partially screwed up the result, in the name of "weirdness"

but i don't know the von vliet art -- whether getting into painting was a good thing, something arising out of the novel hisory of the magic band, that i don't know, but i don't think beefheart and band overstayed their welcome in the rock music world -- the whole beefheart phenomena is an interesting aside to the general ransacking of the blues by the whites, probably a curious distraction for rock critics through the years that's still fun to reflect on

the idea that whatever sonic youth does next or continues to do is still interesting to critics now however is like watching a muscal idea from the mid '80s trapped in time and self-servingly "curated" by big city scenesters, spun out beyond the usefulness of the bands ideas -- like rock bands from the '70s who endlessly re-do the nostalgia circuit -- why is this bands recent output seen by critics as important, interesting ? wouldn't it hae been more dignified for sonic youth to have moved on ten years ago ? there has been no benefit from any wisdom that might have arisen out of "mature" sonic youth (cf: the promotion of free jazzers, a good thing, but nothing to do with the sound of sonic youth, "grunge improvisors")

― george gosset (gegoss), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 22:28 (twenty-one years ago) link

Improvisation is only a small part of what SY do, George. I think the real strength of their latest is in the composed material.

― o. nate (onate), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 22:47 (twenty-one years ago) link

george - where is this interest in sonic youth from big city critics you speak of? the wire?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 18 February 2003 22:50 (twenty-one years ago) link

Television.

― Dave Fischer, Wednesday, 19 February 2003 01:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

various magazines, mostly from the UK and includng The Wire, plus a couple of local (nz) ones

i admit critics' visibility right now is low or at least spread, with moves onto the web, so i assume there have to be a lot more genre-specific fanzine type web publications that now achieve a much higher worldwide circulation, with critics as general purpose music contributors to non-music publications less prevalent

and so threads like this will be more about a different set of critics for every poster, from both genre and other preference points of view (so i guess my choice sy are older or classic critics darlings, which they certainly were ten years ago

The Wire attempts to be universally applicable while excluding a lot of pop/rock music, which maybe makes it irrelevant to some here, and their championing of almost lone pop/rock band sy particularly ridiculous to me

― george gosset (gegoss), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 04:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

Pulp have become very much a critics' band over the last 2 years, thus cementing Jarvis's place as the Grant McLennan of our times (though Grant McLennan might have some choice words to say about that).

― Charlie (Charlie), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 04:32 (twenty-one years ago) link

With all due respect to the author of my favourite song, Grant McLennan's lyrics could never hold a candle to Mr Cocker.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 04:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

no, but the wiggly fingers are not dissimilar.

― Charlie (Charlie), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 06:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

The Sex Pistols. "Greil, be quiet, or I'll never let you out of that box!"

― Neudonym, Wednesday, 19 February 2003 06:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Flaming Lips

― Vic (Vic), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 06:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

uh what

explain Vic

― Brian the Snorf, Wednesday, 19 February 2003 13:39 (twenty-one years ago) link

the whole beefheart phenomena is an interesting aside to the general ransacking of the blues by the whites, probably a curious distraction for rock critics through the years that's still fun to reflect on

(This thread is dead.)

Yeah, George Gosset, Frank Zappa fucked up "Trout Mask." Included all that shit to make it seem like a "field recording." But the record succeeds anyway. "Ransacking the blues by whites" is kind of a musty notion now, though--white people have always played "blues" and it's unfortunate there's no term equivalent to that idiot word "rockist" for these "bluesist" people who persist in thinking it's all about the noble black man, the ransacking white man, and some misguided notion of "purity" of "delta" blues and all that very wearying bullshit. "Trout Mask" isn't "perfect" but it sho' is swingin', and if you get nothing else out of besides that great velocity, you've gotten more out of it than most folks have. It's only people uncomfortable with the basics of American music as she is swung who persist in hearing what Beefheart did as "difficult." And there were a few critics back in the dark ages before "rockism" who saw this, too.

― frank p. jones (frank p. jones), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 13:56 (twenty-one years ago) link

I dont read much press these days ;-)
What kind of reviews do the Foo Fighters get ?

― kevin brady (groeuvre), Wednesday, 19 February 2003 13:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

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