Irish politics discussion thread

I didn't know there was one. Yay me!

most of my peer group are about the same. but we live in ireland, so that's probably not very acceptable.

I am irritated beyond belief by the fact that my stupid housemates completely failed to get themselves on the electoral register and therefore did not vote. Useless eejits. And they're exactly the kind of people who whinge all the time about how shit the government is.

It looks like the usual suspects back in again. The only bright spot in the day could be the ousting of Michael McDowell. Please please please!

yep....am praying McDowell gets booted out after all his "don't vote in a flaky left wing government" crap.

Joe Higgins look like he could be in trouble.

this election sucks on a number of levels, not least that I am going to lose our work election prediction competition big time.

higgins gone, i thought. on a local note, gerry cowley bit the dust a long time ago, to nobody's surprise.

i'm kinda glad to see the viable parties win out over the wacko extreme parties though. particularly the PD's and the greens.

Bland centrism for all. Next time around people can moan about how all the politicians are the same.

I am gutted and off to get drunk. Well I was going to do the latter anyway but still, I'm in Dublin South East and so far so good. According to the Irish Times at the moment Gormley is 200 votes ahead (so my vote worked!) which leads me to hope that McDowell will be removed. You never know though, until they've sorted through all the (really confusing!) transfers, nothing is certain sadly.

Had to work all day opposite a FFer who thinks McDowell is the best thing for Irish politics! It's been a long day to put it mildly :(

ROFL @ Ruari Quinn: "I've just come from the pictures and a bite to eat so I'm only now catching up with the figures. I was at Pirates of the Carribean in which a set of gangsters also won an election" I love him. Also said "Howya" to him on the canal yesterday (he only got my number 2).

Having first glass of wine. I promise first drunken rants will be on this thread if they happen. You're all so lucky.

Holy shit. Joe O'Higgins is gone! That is a level 10 on the scale of WTF!

YES! FU MMD!!

haha so good! they chanted "cheerio cheerio cheerio" at him as he was making his pompous resignation speech.

arrogant prick...

Totally! J0hn G0rmley was admirable in not calling him an arrogant prick!

Tr3v0r S4rg3nt on the TV, good man himself.

P4t R4bb1te on earlier. The man's a smug cnut but better him than McDowell. Any bets on who will be next government?

Good god! How bad is D4v1d D4v1n-P0wer's dye job. myeyesgogglesdonothing.jpg

I'm very impressed by the RTE radio commentators, who were on the air continuously from 12pm until at least 9.30 tonight, when I stopped listening.

The whole thing is, as the Vicar says, a victory for bland centrism. For people who want to protect their pensions and who don't give a shit about anyone who's a bit different. It's all very disappointing.

However, I do believe that the flight to the two major parties is a signal of something big coming around the corner, but I just can't quite figure out what that something is, other than the no-doubt upcoming economic downturn. I think the FF people got a bit of a fright this year, and that's why they ran for their first preferences, to keep themselves safe.

If I was Mary Harney, I'd be laughing my ass off right about now.

I would have liked to have seen Beverly Cooper Flynn out on her arse as well. Shame.

Our economy is not going to be doing too well in a year. It makes me very sad to know that I am buying a house (I hope) where the interest will be more than the increase in value... Still beats when my parents bought and it was at 17 or 19%. Madness!

What's interesting for me is that there is an old maxim along the lines of: When stocks are rising, buy a house. When Houses are rising, buy stock. If I wasn't desperate to buy a house I'd be trying the stock market.

But yeah, I'm really disappointed. I had real hopes that the Greens would make a real splash. I never wanted them to be a leading party in the day to day but I wanted them to have some kind of environmental influence. I do think they did though, politicans do like to be seen as hip to da groove etc.

MH didn't look like she was laughing. It's probably a bit tough to see the party that she gave so much to (I am trying to be nice here) used as the scapegoat by the party that she and others split from. It's like an abusive partner turning around after 10 years off the booze and lamping you on a bender. I suppose.

I'm pretty sure, though, that she must be delighted that Mad Dog presided over the demise of the party rather than her, and that after hounding her out of the leadership position, his ludicrous arrogance and thorough unpleasantness lost it for him.

Kev-lol, if you're buying a house because you want somewhere to live, then you'll be fine.

True enough re. PD.

That's what I'm going on at the moment. I'd love a clear sign that hey, a house is the best thing to buy right now :)

LOL @ David of the bad dye job on the tv re. Nazi boy:

"His wife and sons haven't seen much of him over the past 5 years so this is a cloud with silver lining"

Bad journalism I call you RTE! Bad suits, I call you the weatherman, Inspira Carmere I call you ruin! Good night my dears, I'm off to bed. It's a FF government tomorrow but at least my constituency is safe. Keep it local (and personal), that's my motto.

they chanted "cheerio cheerio cheerio" at him as he was making his pompous resignation speech.

That struck me as being a bit boorish. I am now starting to feel sorry for Maccer.

Am I the only person who dislikes the PDs less than Fianna Fáil?

You're joking! I don't think you're alone really, I would have more time for them if they had a) seemed more independent (not so reliant on FF) and b) had chosen different leaders over the past few years.

If Harney is the only PD elected, does that make her an independant?

No, she is a member of a party (in the same way that Joe Higgins is, say).

But she would count as an Independent for Dáil rules, as a parliamentary group needs to have at least seven members.

You're joking!

SRSLY, you'd rather have Chris Andrews as your TD?

No, I voted Gormley, Quinn and Creighton. Also Andrews is young but based on personal experience (he taught one of my best friends and when I visited said school for an open day he was v friendly and decent joking about his brother [the bloody awful David McS4v4ge, the twit in Temple Bar or Grafton Street with the drum on his back] who was based in Denmark at the times) I would have plenty of time for him. I would actually have voted for him if he had been with any other party (even PD if only to get rid of Michael)!

why do you keep google guarding all these names?

do you reckon McDowell will have to get a job in the Centra in the triangle in Ranelagh? Or maybe he will get some kind of entry level job as a technical writer. I hear Liz O'Donnell is starting in McDonalds soon.

I googleproof out of habit I suppose :)

I hear that Godfather's pizza is looking for deliverymen, I know I'd tip heavily if he came to my door lest he "make shit of my driveway" (sic). Liz O'Donnell hasn't worked before so she won't start now. I'd say Mr O'Donnell will be pulling extra shifts now! [/sexism]

That struck me as being a bit boorish. I am now starting to feel sorry for Maccer.

Are you kidding? He's one of the most arrogant, insulting, obnoxious people in public life and he deserves to be treated poorly. He treats other people poorly. Screw him. It's not like people booed Liz O'Donnell when she lost. Anyway, she's popular enough that she could actually get a proper job doing something else.

I am depressed about the whole election. Irish people are idiots.

Irish people are idiots.

Fixed :)

I think that DV might have been winding us up. I hope so anyway...

No, I don't think he is. He is a sporting gentleman who believes people should be treated in a civilised way, even if they are Mad Dog.

I disagree.

Oh dear! Well it's good to know that there are people out there like that anyway!

Yes, yes it is. I would not want to stoop to McDowell's level.

Stupid question, is there a complete list of the election results anywhere on the Interweb?

I don't know. Sorry. Not very helpful.

Irish Times website was pretty good throughout.

I found it very annoying - I kept getting e-mails from people telling me that person X or Y had lost their seat, with nothing obvious about it on the text based Internet. RTE was pretty rubbish too, unless you were using streaming audio.

RTE's website was truly dreadful wasn't it?

Just a big mess with some gigantic picture taking up space where info should have been. Amazing in this day and age.

I suppose we can be grateful that it didn't have a song in the background or smily faces at the end of every article!

Or the Lizard King.

I... I don't understand...

Santorum.jpg

Oh right, cheers for pointer towards thread. That boy works so hard!

I was pretty pleased with the election results, all told. I must have vastly different priorities to EVERY OTHER IRISH ILXOR. I do agree that the coverage was terrible. I was in the UK on Thursday pm, Friday and Saturday and found it very difficult to track progress.

I think that the result could have been easily foretold from a 50/50 perspective - with the mud-slinging fantango before polling the vote was going to swing violently in the direction of FF and FG, those that lost out (primnarily the PDs) did so on the basis of a leader who spoke unreservedly, which our electorate didn't appreciate.

McDowell was in my constituency and I am delighted with that result. I agree that Mary Harney must have had quite a chuckle behind closed doors.

I thought the coverage (TV & Radio) were fantastic! Papers, not so much sadly enough.

McDowell was brought down by his ego, pure and simple. He couldn't leave things alone, took everything personally (something well pointed out by that other egomaniac Adams during the debate) and couldn't help but preen near a camera. He was determined to lead the PDs and was blinded by his own greed to the fact that he was being handed a poisoned chalice. Truth be told, I think Harney acted in a mercenary manner but anyone could have seen the writing on the wall really!

What are your priorities Lara? My concern was that I wanted to remove the established old boys club for a new one (sigh). Also I wanted the Greens to have more of an effect, I would have been happier with them being bigger because while their policies are fairly limited I do want them at cabinet level for discussion. I hope that there will be one or two changes but I'm not sure that they'll really happen.

given the possible bump coming in the economy, i think consolidation was always going to be the order of the day coming up to this one.

is it possible FF knew it too, and played to it?

It's kind of an interesting one, because, as you say, the flight to the two main parties obviously means that the electorate is jittery about something, and the coming five years could possibly not be great for whoever's in government, so why do FF want it so bad right now, when possibly the smart thing to do would have been to soft pedal a bit and maybe let the others take over and screw up. Maybe FF reckons things aren't going to be so bad.

I am highly amused that the first business day after the election results and the Mahon tribunal is right back with the massive irregularities in Bertie's testimony regarding his money.

Quite right and I wonder what effect this commentary will have on the formation of our new government?

To be honest I think our often a-political electorate voted for the people who ran the best campaigns - on a local and national level. Those who didn't convince in the TV debates lost in waves. McDowell and Adams are most notable here.

I was in the UK and it was virtually impossible to find out what was going on. UK coverage = almost nil. Limited web coverage too.

McDowell did v badly on the debate 'tis true! I don't think it was the debate that threw it away for Adams, I think people got spooked by the idea of SF being in government! Lucinda Creighton totally proves your point though, she managed to get through on v little except fluff, that says she does seem really copped on and ready for what's next.

Mahon tribunal appears to have already messed up with their timing sadly enough. I don't really hold any faith in the tribunal system any more. It's not like I had much to begin with.

Everyone's expecting a bump, it's making houses cheaper but scares the shit out of me re. buying at the moment. All that crap about Stamp Duty didn't help.

SF was surely a long shot but Adams was terrible on economic policy, health service etc. It appeared that they (SF) had a single policy agenda.

Creighton is apparently brilliant, although I hate Enda Kenny too much to have voted FG. She's a non-practicing barrister. She and Varadkar seem to be the new breed of FG.

Is there any possibility of putting a stop to these tribunals? I predict a much more emphatic vote of togetherness if we were given that opportunity. And the savings could cover the cost of Stamp Duty!

Btw - I say buy anyway, if that's what you want. The Stamp Duty issue will be negated by price inflation for the next 1-2 years for definite.

explains a lot

xp this story is so similar to An Béal Bocht that I am moved, not for the first time, to compare you to yr civil service predecessor Brian O’ Nolan.

great names the family had as well

Brian was the third of 11 children, Gearóid, Ciarán, Roisin, Fergus, Kevin, Maeve, Nessa, Nuala, Sheila, Niall, and Micheál.

solid names def

Looking good

Join Sinn Féin.https://t.co/wqMzYkWBZv pic.twitter.com/XxtgyiAYQp

— Gerry Adams (@GerryAdamsSF) February 11, 2020

Still incandescent with rage that there’s no link to that video of him doing results chat in his Antrim GAA jersey and opening the chat with “coola boola”.

youve the pics at least

i caught it live, look theres no point denying it, it was glorious tbh

non-emigrant privilège at its worst

I've no words for this 🤷‍♀️ pic.twitter.com/nNF0JcSvFp

— Fíona Ní mhistéil 🇮🇪 (@fionamitchell56) February 11, 2020

never....forget?

I'm finding it difficult to parse what point he thinks he's making

listen again!

So when do the bids get unsealed

Oh my God I just burst out laughing at your man. The head on him! Very reminscent of my JC history class where a friend’s answer to the question “Why wasn’t De Valera shot by the British?” was “He gave them a bribe.”

Constant Mark O’ Bhich indeed

conn markobitch gave his life fyi

the FG no to sf has remained firm

the FF no looked v weak but is firming up

the odds on FF/FG/Green halved over night

total agreement, here we gooooo

best political system in de wordeld, obv

They’ll be laughing on the other side of their faces when it inevitably collapses & SF wins 120 seats in the rerun

theres so much in play

as far as i can think it through, it all rests on the nebulous expectations each of the three main players have for the coming term of govt, which is gonna be a matter of political calculus that theyd each want to be very certain of getting right

ff most to lose, for all of the reasons. theyre the party most suited to, best placed to, with the most pressing political reasons (michéal taoiseach, biggest party, running out of time to recover, and losing imo (by roundabout via fg for a decade) their voters to sf) to enter sf coalition

fg best off out of govt but if they think they can snatch back (and i think, even to other parties like ff/sd/lab tbh) that 12% from sf by:

forming a stable (big assumption) four/five year govt:

that provides large amounts of affordable homes for those swing voters, ie

-not rental (not bought wholesale by funds)
-not at or near current prices
-and, i cynically think tbh myself, not swallowed up in large part by social housing nor approved housing bodies

and just for fg (obv for ff this is lifeblood stuff) i dont think they actually *want* to do any of this stuff. they dont think everyone deserves a house, but if its in the rules and they ~have to, jeez~ then owning is for our lot, and renting is for your lot, buy in or fuck off has been their approach for the past three years when things became viable again

ok, take a breath, phew, thats a lot for a coalition (surely would have to be a full coalition govt this time, which would still be a significant step for the lads) to manage and bank on, who have we to get the numbers....

the greens? jesus thats optimistic. not very likely, seeing the progress theyre enjoying in this moment, to sign up to a programme that puts emphasis on houses! now! quickly! anywhere!

independents? more prone than most to fracture and in particular towards the popular momentum, besides which will the electorate tolerate a FF led clientelism based govt again? FG hardly got away with that, and at least had the appropriate sniffy air towards the whole sordid setup

lab/socdem? i mean, if i knew what they were for i could make an argument against it, but....?

the amount of things that would have to be agreed so firmly to hold it together, and then go perfectly......i think its a mad risk.

and so obviously a grand coalition of keepball against SF that the optics are not good.

im surprised this is swooping this way, but id be more surprised if its not kites, nor if its not the strangest kites we see flown between now and mickey d signing off on a rabble.

still think ff will form a stable govt with sf

sf, as you note, only lose in the least likely scenario- a coalition govt, starting out on an awful footing optically, gets everything right over a long enough term to win back voters, and over a short enough term that something unseen (or their own pretty likely failings as a group) doesnt intercede to ruin it all anyway.

Was last week's result despite a great amount of teh electorate not being able to vote before next Saturday or did that get taken care of?
Heard a sizable chunk of people couldn't actually vote before 15th of February and would probably vote more left after taht point so the election was pushed forward to prevent them counting.
So if there was a need for a revote or anything it would be difficult to keep them excluded. Or did they get earlier clearance or something?

update

still no govt, and little more than feints not even fully developed into posturing just yet

still feel FF/SG plus at least one smaller party and a few IND seats is the likely outcome

i skipped briefly over it

for as far as i got in it, it was nothing that hasnt been said by any analyst in one of their simpler presentations over the past two years

the only thing that struck me was the global/international angle, which i may be overemphasizing on a skim read.

but does anyone else want to read dermot fucking desmond writing an opinion piece in the irish fucking times lecturing us that housing is now unaffordable and shouldn't be a tradeable asset as well as a citizen right to let me know whether- as twitter insists on telling me all morning- he is now a socialist, or is it the baldest effort ive ever seen of "fuck out all them funds, i want this sweet market to myself"

Absolutely not, I’m planning on a nice Saturday, I’d rather not have a brain haemorrhage before I start drinking ty.

My first job out of college was for a small campus company which had recently been bought by a Dermot Desmond company (under a business magnate who'd previously disguised his tech talents by (checks notes) managing the National Women's Football team).

We ended up with some people who'd worked with DD in previous companies, one of whom told a story about a few lads who'd gone up to install the new version of their flagship software on his PC, and then had to take an unscheduled holiday for a few weeks because it had remapped the function keys, which were the main conduits of his executive function.

Which is to give another angle from which to say: fuck Dermot Desmond.

(not slagging the National Women's Football team of course, or saying that it doesn't take talent to manage them, just that he was talking himself up as the next Bill Gates shortly after buying the company)

im a close personal friend of a womens all ireland football winning coach, he is full of mantras and blather wisdom but an ok fella all told

Tiny country

k¸ (darraghmac) wrote this on thread Euro 2012 Qualification (pre-empt to handball cheat phase) on board I Love Football on 09-Sep-2010

packie bonner paid for my first ever pint

They may take our freedom but they'll never take our SALADS....#coronavirus #Coronavirusireland #COVID19ireland pic.twitter.com/TjFts61220

— Caolán Mc Aree (@Caolanmcaree) March 19, 2020

hes as much a mocker of the underclass he doesnt care about as any of the clichés

a prick

looks like an orderly and cautious wind down, with plenty of provisos

seems sensible

haven't gone near any details of what a programme for govt between fg/ff/greens would look like, nor been keeping tabs much tbh

Back in the High Court today - Gemma O’Doherty and John Waters as they ask for a judicial review of the Covid-19 restrictions pic.twitter.com/uIM2kKNY1Z

— Dominic McGrath (@McGrathDominic) May 5, 2020

thread of the continuing Waters/O'Doherty idiot show, some of their thick as fuck cheerleaders defying social distancing outside the courtroom. I used to associate John Waters with some funny movies and a foul-mouthed xmas song comp, this clown has brought the name into disrepute.

A source incorrectly recalled to the Irish Examiner that Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe requested pineapple on a pizza during negotiations. Mr Donohoe has confirmed through a spokesperson he did not request that pizza, and is “a ‘New Yorker Pizza’ kind of guy” with bacon, chicken and barbecue sauce.We apologise to Mr Donohoe for any offence caused.

The Irish love their pizza so much and they are so fucking shit at it

interesting red c poll today

new opinion poll suggests a slump in support for Sinn Féin with the party down four points since the previous survey two months ago.

The Business Post Red C poll puts the party at 25%, down from 29% in the most recent poll at the end of November.

Support for Fine Gael was unchanged at 20% while Fianna Fáil has gained one point to 17%.

Independents are on 15%, up two points, while the Social Democrats are unchanged at 6%.

Support for Labour remains at 4% while the Green Party is also unchanged at 4%.

People Before Profit/Solidarity is unchanged at 3% while Aontú is up one point to 3%.

Others are unchanged at 3%.

makes you think about what FG/FF could do if they even tried to solve housing

Feels like SF are losing votes cos of Gaza a bit?

from the left?

maybe

also immigration from the farther right tho

they are finding it difficult to be enough things to enough men the longer they spend as first opposition, but thats expected generally id say

the breadth of anti-govt opinion that they rode last election couldnt be held together for long and they managed better than i thought they would

but i think theres a big tension between their new young support, their new middle aged support, their traditional report and staying quiet on actual positions is eventually starting to show the joins

its still a surprise too see this drop and i doubt it will be carried to the next poll tbh, back up towards 28% maybe and fg to see the same drop.feels more like it

the measure will be seats on the day

maybe the new racists farmers party will change the game

Yeah, true. They were pretty bad on reproductive rights on the other side of the border

im not sure if "look at what their positions are in NI" carries an awful lot of weight, for two reasons (this is all just "i think")

i. having to govern with these loons, tbf

ii. not sure how many potential sf voters down south *really* think of sf ni and sf roi as an entity like that

i think at present they are weighing up the arithmetic between showing how pragmatic theyd actually be in govt across the range of issue that have gained them poll points vs their own internal priorities as an all island party, because theyve reached the limit of growth as far as saying "we'll definitely do what you want that the current govt isnt" to a very wide range of opinion goes

id still be surprised if ff/fg/greens carry the next election tbh but the fracturing of further left and right offers a somewhat changed set of rules there?

The noise about them earlier this week was them taking some lumps from PDP because SF are planning on going to the states for St Patrick's day (and.. meet the President? did they do a lot of this pre-Biden?) for what will presumably be a big fund-raising trip for them?

i dont see it being a 4% issue but combine it with SF confirming quite strongly of late they are an open borders party like fg/ff on immigrants (this ofc is how its being viewed and described by the right wingers) might be.

dropping from both sides basically

ah and mary lou said theyd bring house prices in dublin down to 300k

now i suspect there wasnt all *that* many ppl *that* invested in the asset calue of their gaff who had been telling red c they would vote for sf until then

but im also sure that its a non-zero number, and more than likely the greater part of any migration here is not in the "i disagree with that" space its in the "youve said something major that you you absolutely wont be backing up with any sort of actual plan or policy here"

do other parties do this? yeah. does it hurt them as much? for as long as SF are actual prospective leaders of a govt who havent been in govt they are going to be vulnerable to this i think.

does this type of grandstanding gain them proportionally more votes from ppl who like the headline message? again i think we are now seeing them hover along the limit lines of exactly that question on the topics that matter.

A friend in the civil service has said there's been all sorts of misinformation on the Family amendment in the agricultural media, preying off the fact that succession and inheritance are obsessions for a lot of farmers.

The FLAC are supporting Yes/No, I know some people voting Yes/Yes on the grounds of fuck Conor McGregor, No/No seem like head cases by and large - is there anyone brave enough to come out for No/Yes?

the majority of ppl i know are not voting

the govt efforts around it have been woeful and the decisions to string a few things together and leave the actual outcomes unclear until interpreted by the courts have been badly taken by and large

Yeah, I heard it was not the best - if I was there I'd probably vote Yes/Something just on the grounds that a No on the Family will be seen by the worst people as a sign that the tide is starting to turn.