koons and beecroft

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perhaps, but not necessarily in this instance. i think there's a difference in the type of works that they're both making. imo, her work is more confrontational and thus it compels the viewer to try and enter in a dialogue with art and artist which is not always doable. koons gets off easy in that regard because he is mostly surface, even in his pr0n works, there's still the screen of the print/photo/postcard/etc/etc/etc.

i also think that beecroft's work anticipates this feeling of the spectator as voyeur and almost subverts that lust/rape fantasy through her choice of model and outfit.

― Darius Rucker Lookalike (deangulberry), Thursday, 17 March 2005 04:43 (nineteen years ago) link

I met Koons at a Beecroft performance! So Koons clearly rates her work.

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 07:08 (nineteen years ago) link

But to answer your misogynist question, it's a red herring. You're only a sexist insofar as you're letting gender get in the way of a more subtle analysis of the differences between two artists. Is it really more relevant that they're male and female than it is that they're European and American?

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 07:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Also worth considering: just as John Cage liked to point out that there's no such thing in music as silence, it might be worth adopting the position that there's no such thing in art as "blankness". Even when you exhibit a blank painting it's already full of meaning, references to other blank paintings, contextual play, etc. I suspect what you mean by "blankness" is something like "absence of critical discourse towards power", and, more narrowly, "absence of moral position". And I'd argue that most contemporary art leaves out the kind of moral stance that, say, a critic would have to adopt in his/her writings. Which is not to say that art is immoral. Leaving out moral positions is often a way of foregrounding them. Is the problem of kitsch absent from Koons' work? Is the problem of "the male gaze" absent from Beecroft's? If they're present in the culture, they can't really be absent, and the work can't be blank.

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 07:21 (nineteen years ago) link

im not making a moral position here, and i have been looking at contemp. art for long enough that i know that blank isnt blank

beecroft v. spec. genders her work--thats her reading and not mine.

and koons refuses to engage critics--is that blankness ?

what is blankness, i think thats part of my question, what is blankness?

― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:10 (nineteen years ago) link

beecroft very specifically genders her work

And if something is situated in a gender, say, or a race, that's blank? Explain why?

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I think what you might be meaning by "blankness" is a strategic silence at the centre of the work which invites other voices to offer commentary. In other words, you say "blankness", I say "provocation".

― Momus (Momus), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:19 (nineteen years ago) link

because shes v. sure it doesnt have traditional content...(i think, im still trying to sort this out)

content is determined by whom--what happens when an artist refuses to tell us approite narratives or any narratives ?

x-post
almost anything provokes though--a white noise center is different then a bright pink orchestral one ?

― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Your "blankness," sir...

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Malevich/Malevich-white-painting.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:24 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/rauschenberg-whiteonwhite-1panel-1951.jpg

These surely aren't 'blank.' They're covered in dollar signs.

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:27 (nineteen years ago) link

ART BUDDIES CLUB

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/ryman-surfaceveil.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:28 (nineteen years ago) link

LAST ONE I SWEAR

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/martin19.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:29 (nineteen years ago) link

OH WAIT

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/FrankOkada-AX-IX.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:30 (nineteen years ago) link

WAIT WHAT

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/Martin-Nat-Gal.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:30 (nineteen years ago) link

YOU DON'T SAY

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/Newman-TheNameII-1950.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:31 (nineteen years ago) link

HERRO

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/Ryman-Untitled-1965-PeterBlumGallery.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:31 (nineteen years ago) link

HI DERE

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/Ryman-Winsor34-1966.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:32 (nineteen years ago) link

HUH WHAT

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/diebenkorn-oakland-image-1981.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:32 (nineteen years ago) link

SHAME, REALLY

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/martin14.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:33 (nineteen years ago) link

NOW WE'RE TALKING

http://www.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/visualarts/Image-Library/Minimal/martin6.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:34 (nineteen years ago) link

YOU'RE TALKING FOR ME

http://www.artax.de/kuenstler/l-bilder/lewitt/1.Seite/images/circles.jpg

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:35 (nineteen years ago) link

THE

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39068000/jpg/_39068645_dsc0111.jpg

END

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:37 (nineteen years ago) link

i can id all of those, and can formally tell the difference b/w them--whats yr critical position ?

― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:38 (nineteen years ago) link

Some people sell their wares by selling and some sell them by pretending not to sell.

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:40 (nineteen years ago) link

is it all about selling

― anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:44 (nineteen years ago) link

With those two, yeah.

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Thursday, 17 March 2005 08:54 (nineteen years ago) link

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