Book Group: Helen DeWitt's "The Last Samurai" - Discussion Thread

Thinking hasn't helped - I feel less sure of what was going on now than when I was reading.

I'm questioning how much of the book was real at all. Pretty sure the yarns aren't, which is fine as I'll enjoy a shaggy-dog story if it's flagged as such. But the trekking around to harvest the yarns is more problemmatical because it's on the edge between possible and fantastical - I mean, does Ludo even exist? Is he just Sibylla's demon babbling away about what-might-have-been? ("I thought: why am I keeping her here?")

In which case, what actually happens? Woman gets tangled up in unrewarding work, frustrating herself with a lot of hopeless dreams, sees no way out. The little passage about how to build a motel (spot its potential when noone else wants to know - which I actually did find rather moving) then becomes just about the only reliable thing in the book. That and the concert, though I suspect it was more a normal concert that left her wandering the streets all night in rapture.

Okay, but what are the other 400 pages for? If the whole thing is about moving from trying to interpret everything through a false assumption towards learning one thing through its tiny variations, that's not really what's happened, is it? Maybe it is, maybe the point is just finding a way to cope with the chaos of everything, whether it's through motels or music or bringing up baby. But I can't help feeling it'd've been more fun to get there without the Greek.

The mental disorder seems less about depression than asperger's or schizophrenia, on that reading.

so is everyone meant to be finished?

sorry sir dog et it.

im abt 100 pages from the end but have got distracted by other books :(

i keep trying to write about it but you see i just got given a 'descriptive grammar of ket' which is weird and fasinating and really I think my reading that is what sibylla would have wanted.

"Linguists and specialists on Siberia are generally familiar with the name Ket, which designates a small ethnic group on the Yenisei and their language, widely regarded as a linguistic enigma in many respects. Ket is a severely endangered language with today less than 500 native speakers. Together with Yugh, Kott, Arin, Assan and Pumpokol, all of which are completely extinct, it forms the Yeniseic family of languages, which has no known linguistic relatives."

a linguistic enigma in many respects!! (why yes i am supposed to be reading sociology books right now)

I don't find "questioning how much of the book was real at all" particularly productive, myself?

I like how Yamamoto's CD is like Sibylla's mother playing Chopin's prelude no 4 in D minor.

Oh, it's not productive at all and I'd much rather not because it leaves me feeling cheated, but I felt it drove me that way. I've been waiting for Alex to weigh in and put my mind at rest by explaining it all, actually, but it's probably not that kind of book.

Sorry! I will tackle it soon. Law school is busy.

I am...almost halfway through week 3's reading

;_;

I have been reading the comments on the Conversational Reading posts, which are fascinating although less for how they affect my understanding of the book (getting the sense that my feelings about have been set in stone somewhat, i read stuff and go 'that is v interesting but that is not how it is ok') than their sheer, I dunno, internet-comment-ness.

Are we finished with this now? I thought the book group format worked alright, even if it fizzled out a bit towards the end, maybe due to its losing readers by the wayside. I was going to say it could've done with a bit more discussion of what's-happening-and-where's-it-going, but it definitely wasn't that kind of book.

Thanks for turning me towards something I'd never have gone near myself anyway.

I liked it a lot. In some ways I wish I had finished in 3-4 days and then spend time re-reading it. But I will revive this.

Just on the w/e I finished reading this novel I came across this story. Quite a coincidence.

The father of the boy has said that his son is no genius. The thing is he wasn't afraid to make him curious, to teach him (or get him to learn) as much as he could. A bit like S in this book, she does not think she is pushing her child too fast too young. Very much a 'how much work you do' approach.

The father also said something like that the main thing is to get kids reading by two years of age. Seemed like half of the equation.

This kid is also learning French and Russian and has written some sort of reference book on Shakespeare, btw.

Yeah, I enjoyed/am enjoying this as well - the only reason I haven't finished is that my life is in a state of advanced chaos at the moment, just in terms of material possessions being strewn about various places, which means that I haven't had the book on me. Anyone read any of the Your Name Here stuff?

i read YNH a while ago but sadly lost the pdf in a grand hd crash - i remember enjoying it, though.

i remember that there was this bit about language learning that I disagreed with - the narration in YNH collapses the distance between 'learning to read a script' and 'being able to read a language', in rather the same way that, in TLS, Sibylla handwaves away the period between 'teaching Ludo the greek for 'of the king'' and 'Ludo understands greek grammar and only needs to ask about vocabulary'.

i guess it jarred because in so many other ways the book and the narration is so meticulous, especially the book is meticulous in awkward and despairing things, and then this bit which is kind of about the hope of further human understanding is so vaguely drawn.

(but as aforesaid i haven't looked at ynh for years, so it's poss i'm filling in gaps from imagination not memory)

I have the PDF of YNH and since it seems stuck in publishing he'll I would gladly send it to people, provided on honor that they toss DeWitt 4 or 5 bucks on paypal or whatever she was charging for it.

I didn't do this - but did people enjoy this? Maybe it would be good to have a bookclub here where read longform short stories and then talk about them? I would like to do this.

Yeah I enjoyed it, shame it petered out at the end.

Yeah - I thought maybe we could do one a week? Then if you missed a week's story, no big deal, just read the next one? I don't know.

I was going to nominate Junot Diaz's Drown one time if book club is to become a thing. That might fit what you're looking for. It wouldn't need a week per story though, they're pretty short.

just finished this the other day. wasn't really a fan of how she structured the second half after samurai confrontations.

however I have decided that I should watch seven samurai pretty soon.

The thing I liked about the week-a-story idea is that you could read it on like Wednesday and then catch up with the discussion? Because reading stuff in sync with other people is hard. I think shorter is better really - c.f. the listening clubs (rip) where people were asking for 2 listens of 2 albums a week, plus buying/download time - that's clearly too much commitment, but a 40 page-or-less story probably wouldn't be, especially if it was online somewhere to begin with.

I see what you mean. The listening clubs got a bit ridiculous - the funk one was pumping out four albums a week, with no discussion - hardly seems like a club if there's no interaction.

I reckon your idea should work, but it'll take a ringleader pushing it forward I think - these things can peter out a bit. I'd be up for participating anyway - haven't read much in the way of stories for a long time.

Do you think it would be better to start it here, or on ile? Or does it not make any difference in the SNA era?

Its natural home is here I think. But be sparing imo, give it month or two's lead-in - people have to buy books, clear time, etc.

How about picking off from where we left off? Both myself and roxymuzak registered an interest in starting this again.

Suggested seasonal.

Check here again round mid-week to see if there is any interest with a view to getting a nominations thread going (if anyone wants to go ahead then by all means).

Then a poll. Then reading.

i'm in.

Yeah, I'm interested too. And I'd like to go ahead and nominate Egan's "Good Squad" which was mentioned in some other thread. But ... are we nominating here or do you want to do a separate nominations thread? Either way I'd like to throw in the Egan and I'll try to come up with other ideas for candidates. Do we want to stick to contemporary literary stuff? or maybe do a classic? My only thought is that I'd like to have it be not too long. Maybe 350 pgs or less, just because I have a ton of other reading to do (I'm in school).

Anyone in New York/Boston been/going to see her book tour for Lightning Rods?

she's got a new story out - http://recommendedreading.tumblr.com/post/29475857392/helen-dewitt-recovery

Yikes. Rural retreat did not go well.

yeah, that sounded bad. saw hints for a while but not the details.

Very nice interview/discussion

Happened upon it after reading Will Self on how serious fiction is a minority interest now but my eyes just stopped as I skimmed ahead to a discussion of McLuhan. I only know 3rd/4th hand versions of his ideas and I suppose those two things merged a bit...how fiction that isn't at all worthwhile is made today because those energies have gone to other things: TV (the discussion of Brit comedy in the DeWitt piece), film (more the case in France, see Margerite Duras who is like the mid-point between these tendencies).

OTOH wrt to Self I saw that as excuse making for how badly this generation have done - not that I would know. I have v little interest in British fiction, and his article which is why I barely read it.

After all that I find the DeWitt interview awesome - love how they are saying at times 'you know, just stop reading contemporary fiction', even if some of it is good do you need it? Funny too bcz DFW (who they talk about) doesn't interest me at all! It does sound like the sort of thing Will Self is saying, but here its cast in a much more stimulating manner.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n16/helen-dewitt/diary

that sounds shitty

was some of this public before? i had a weird sense of deja vu reading it

on her site maybe?

A blog entry on this was linked here.

Started Lightning Rods in the morning, saw this in the afternoon, then onto another few chapters of LR...just an odd day. xp

blog entries/bits on twitter - yeah really shitty. I'm not sure I'd still be there, tho I can understand her wish not to be threatened out of her home, and the financial and other practical reasons for not doing so. I imagine it's hard even in periods of repose not to find the association of place with events too strong to not be mentally overwhelmed by them, and the purblind stupidity of the law must only aggravate those feelings. just hope she can start feeling safe, and start writing again, tho it doesn't look like she's going to be feeling safe any time soon.

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2015/09/03/helen-dewitt/tashu-duset-sekar/

So ties in to The Last Samurai.

On a few bits and pieces and great as usual with it.

whoops, sorry, meant this to go in this thread, missed it in my search because of the quote marks

http://lithub.com/seven-ways-to-hand-sell-a-lost-modern-masterpiece/

and podcast interview mentioned here:

http://paperpools.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/podcast-with-scott-gosnell.html?m=1

http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2016/06/08/helen-dewitt-on-the-last-samurai/

http://evergreenreview.com/read/sexual-codes-of-the-europeans/

god that's a beautiful website

it’s a really wonderful piece of writing as well. utterly piquant.