ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

"helped many businesses improve their brands" gets my vote.

I also vote to pretty much never use "help" in this sense. Weak-ass word.

would go with with brand singular tbh

that's only playing it by ear mind

ugh I'm with nabisco on the plural

Language Log weighs in, suggests that nabisco is on the side of predominant usage.

Though I think that their example ("ostriches...bury their head") patterns slightly differently to our one.

its "brands" with an "s" because "their" is referring to "businesses"--"a business" is a single thing

i.e. the sentence "the business has improved their brand" is wrong

though yes iirc british people do this the wrong way with sports teams

oh man, we had a whole thread on this, but to me those numerical agreements are a matter of basic sense and information, not context and taste. I think the example I used last time was this:

"the children are cleaning their room" = the children share one room
"the children are cleaning their rooms" = there are multiple rooms

the "S" refers to the normal thing it always does -- is there more than one of a thing or not. so it's useful and gives us critical information. but now, especially since we use "their" a lot to refer to both individuals and groups, I feel like that agreement is slipping away.

God i'm dumb...

Mr and Mrs Roberts’s Golden Wedding Anniversary
Mr and Mrs Roberts’ Golden Wedding Anniversary

It's the first one, right? The family name is "Roberts"

depends what style book you're using. i think the balance of opinion is against needing the extra s, but there are style guides that call for it.

thx!

I would always use it.

have heard the guide is whether or not you would pronounce the extra 's out loud - if you do, then include it. but yes it looks awkward

Wait, I don't think I really thought about this. If it were "Mr. Roberts's anniversary," then yes I would use it. I'm not sure about "Mr. and Mrs. Roberts's," though.

You wouldn't pronounce it in this case, would you? (xp)

i dunno! what are the rules for pronouncing the plural s?

I wouldn't have the extra S.

If it were the birthday of Mr Roberts, I'd say " Mr Roberts' Birthday "

So in this case, I'd say "Mr and Mrs Roberts' Anniversary"

No problem!

I'm not sure about "Mr. and Mrs. Roberts's," though.

Actually, I think my first instinct was right. This is like "Abbott and Costello's."

I hope they quarrel less than Abbott & Costello

Is "radio appearance" an oxymoron?

Technically perhaps but it does not leap out at me as wrong or horrendous and it seems fairly well accepted (618,000 on google v. 2 million for 'tv appearance'. What else could you say?

I don't think anyone would question "He appeared as a guest on 'The Howard Stern Show' on Tuesday."

But that doesn't really answer your question.

Yeah, I agree, just checking.

no other noun works

"Listeners all over the country were enthralled by Mr Throckmorton's recent radiogramme manifestation."

Appearances are sensate. Sound is sensed. A sound can appear. Although this is an unusual construction, it is not incorrect, in my view.

Hey, copyeditors!

Let's say I'm talking about gentrification. Let's forget the market & the state for a sec and focus on "us vs. them" --> the people living in a neighbourhood (typically minorities or working-class) since it was not hot-to-trot, and the people moving into it (typically wite, college-educated professionals).

1) the first group -- I think I read someone somewhere call them "incumbent residents." Is this stupid? I am using it in a paper, but if there's something less stupid, let me know and I'll replace the instances of it. My pal seems to think it's awful. I think it's kind of nice. Definitely beats saying minorities over and over (which was making me feel kind of racist).

2) the second group -- is it too douchey to call them "the gentry"? Is it too neologistic to call them "gentrifiers"? Is neologistic the worst thing I've ever said on ILX?

HELP ME ILX!

I don't like "incumbent" since it either refers to "currently holding an office" or "lying motionlessly". You wouldn't call Native Americans "incumbent" to the new continent.

any recommendations for a better turn of phrase? maybe it's the 26ish hours of awake in a row but it's really doing my head in. I just can't wrestle a good title out of my head.

"original residents" and "newcomers"?

newcomers feels a little vague -- since i am also talking about private firms and public figures "coming new" to the space (as well as various other actors) i want to differentiate btwn them and the actual people who think they're urban frontiersmen (bias is somewhat tongue-in-cheek).

i can probably get away w/ gentry & incumbent because urban studies from what i've read is THE MOST MELODRAMATIC FIELD OF ACADEMIA OF ALL TIME (except for melodramatic studies which probably exists somewhere) -- if you don't believe me you should read some of waht Mike Davis has to say about fortresses of fear in LA!

Oh, I remember a word for the newcomers -- in-migrants. Just need something for the... the... "displaced." God that's even worse.

indigenous?

newcomers feels a little vague -- since i am also talking about private firms and public figures "coming new" to the space (as well as various other actors) i want to differentiate btwn them and the actual people who think they're urban frontiersmen (bias is somewhat tongue-in-cheek)

are there people who think this, that they're "urban frontiersmen"? or are there just young people looking for a deal? i'd imagine the latter, more or less. which probably isn't too different from what's motivating the private firms etc so i think "newcomers" works. as for the people already there, "original" is perhaps misleading.. maybe "longtime residents"?

coign a new phrase like 'urboriginal' imo

yeah but nobody's really "original" which is why incumbent sort of works, because it's making no claims beyond the fact that they happen to be there now, and prior to the new wave.. "incumbent residents" might be ok but will get cumbersome quickly

surely can't use 'gentry' for the newcomers, that's a very specific class.

'current residents' and 'new arrivals' imo

PRINT IT

I have here a lengthy sentence: "The facts that (LONG CLAUSE) and that (LONG CLAUSE) make us hopeful that..."

My colleague change it to "fact" and left "make," which can't be right. The original is OK if clumsy, yes?

I would probably have done "the fact that... and that... makes us" etc — but that's just my gut instinct, I dunno if it's the most correct way to do it

Original certainly IS clumsy, but at least it's all in agreement. Not so for the "fix".

Does each [LONG CLAUSE] individually make us hopeful, or is the combination of/relationship between [LONG CLAUSE]s that does?

each individually

Yeah, in that case, I think you're right.

of course, the two facts in combination probably make them more hopeful.

The main argument I'm getting is "The facts that..." is too awkward.

Generally sentences with "the fact that" or "the fact is" or "the facts (whatever)" should be rewritten to exclude the "fact" bit. "The fact that these sentences are flawed means they should be rewritten" is less efficient than "These sentences are flawed and should be rewritten". Hope that helps.

Yeah, but it was an editorial by the editors of the journal, soooo....