are you an atheist?

I believe there could well be some sort of benign creator God who has just left us alone to get on with it. No heaven, no hell. I also think, that if people believe in something, then to them it exists, therefore I would 'yes' there is a God/Gods. Obviously, I got this idea from Marvel comics and their take on the Norse mythology in the Earth X series. Finally, I wouldn't actually mind if there was a loving all powerful God and life eternal, that'd be really cool, but probably wishful thinking.

Oily, how long does it take you to make a two-choice poll?

jaymc, he leap from #3 to #4 depends on conflating "everything is possible" with "everything is actual".

if you believe something, then it exists?

i don't think so.

that'd be nice, but no.

i believe i'm a rich bastard with nothing to do but make pop songs and sleep with beautiful men!!

doh nope, still in the office.

JAYMC: The argument is nonsensical 'cuz it's a comedy strawman designed to make other, legit arguments look bad. Which is kinda silly, 'cuz the non-joke "rational" arguments for the existence of god don't need the assistance. They look bad enough on their own.

I believe I am getting a blowjob right now.

Oh, hey.

God what the hell was I doing last night posting to this thread. I know better. I decided to Get Some Things Done, and I made lists and notes, and the lists got really long and complicated, and suddenly arguing about bloody buggery God seemed like a really fun option.

Grrrr.

http://www.raige.net/pictures/images/RaigeKeyboard.gif

I would just like to state for the record that bloody buggery God is not in my canon.

ack, I know what I mean.

JAYMC: The argument is nonsensical 'cuz it's a comedy strawman designed to make other, legit arguments look bad. Which is kinda silly, 'cuz the non-joke "rational" arguments for the existence of god don't need the assistance. They look bad enough on their own.

-- contenderizer, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 6:05 PM

well, these are flippant, pithy summations of big theist ideas like the argument from design or the argument from personal revelation. it's jokes!

bruv

bloody buggery God is not in my canon

LO, BUT HE IS VENGEFUL! REPENT!

Sorry, kkvsgz. I am too busy reviving cockroach threads to create that poll.

I used to be an atheist, but then I did a bunch of potent drugs over a long period of time, and became an agnostic who hopes that when I die and my conscious being becomes freed from the flesh, it becomes a part of a sentient all-knowing universe or something.

I chose 'yes' anyway, though. I used to have a lot of opinions about this - coming from a very religious family - but I really don't care enough to discuss it any more.

Yeah I can only have the discussion so many times before it becomes asphyxiating.

btw I didn't mean to insult this thread by posting that or anything. There are some good thoughts on this thread for sure. I just don't really have much to contribute to the subject any more.

Alfred, otm - after years of trying to sort out just what my personal belief system was, invariably in the context of one religious system or another, it was freeing to acknowledge that I don't believe in the existence of god, or gods.

But then you're sort of stuck in a atheist belief system, right? (Is that how you would say it in English?) And you have to build up everything from there which completely fucks me up. :-(

guess what bros we're all atheists about a lot of really improbable shit with no proof to it, and despite positing stoner hypotheses about how we could all be in a big snow globe or some such other horseshit it's kind of how we deal with the observable world - this doesnt mean we wouldnt believe in shit if suddenly there was evidence for it but right now im not seeing increased evidence for god-belief over, i dunno, reptilian humanoid conspiracy theory belief, beyond social acceptability of religion x wishful thinking

BUt there are eyewitness accounts of Tony Blair turning into a lizard and drinking virgin blood!

im not seeing increased evidence for god-belief over, i dunno, reptilian humanoid conspiracy theory belief, beyond social acceptability of religion x wishful thinking

exactly. i don't see how just cause some view is widely held, NOT holding it makes one *automatically* dogmatic.

i don't see how just cause some view is widely held, NOT holding it makes one *automatically* dogmatic.

-- Granny Dainger

totally agree, but as evidenced on this thread, people seem to equate atheism with being dogmatic about it.

fwiw i think that the world would be better if reptilian humanoid conspiracy theories were eradicated and feel the same way about theism

That does't surprise me at all.

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/a6/55/b509729fd7a05363c70ce010._AA240_.L.jpg

nobody's perfect

http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/comics/toon222god.jpg

but are lots of dogmatic atheists out there

Not really.

Wasn't a question. There ARE lots of dogmatic atheists out there. I've met tons of them. Hell, they've even made the bestseller list lately.

Maybe atheism is just a sign of our times (am I saying it right?)? Like religion once was and is now some outmoded belief system people cling on cause they don't know any better or just blindly accept it?
Thing that keep me awake... :-)

but proportionally, do you really think they're a large % of atheists? Enough to warrant people to be wary of labeling *themselves* atheist? A book called "I AM ATHEIST...BUT IT'S TOTALLY COOL IF YOU DIG THE LORD" wouldn't sell much.

seriously atheists are like what, 1% of the world's population?

religion ain't going anywhere

I have no idea why anyone would be wary of labeling themselves an atheist (presuming, you know, they were one). And while I imagine that most atheists are chill about it, I've known quite a few angry, butthurt, "all religion sucks" types. Enough to make me suspect that, since atheists are such a small percentage of the overall pop, a goodly chunk of 'em are uptight assholes about it.

What you say about marketable book titles is true, but it doesn't exactly refute my point. A lot of atheists do seem to enjoy buying and reading books about how religion is a rogue meme, a crime against humanity that should be eliminated.

Most statistics group secularists, nonbelievers, agnostics, and atheists into the same category, at about a billion people (China helps). In the U.S., that group is about 7%, with self-identified atheists at around 2%. Far fewer than the number of dogmatic Christians. I've never had an atheist knock on my door with pamphlets, though that would be hilarious (and probably dangerous for the pamphleteer).

Both the existence of God and the nonexistence of God have been used as justification for bad things (and good ones), I doubt spreading disbelief would necessarily lead to a better world.

Contenderizer, your argument from experience doesn't support your point, so your point hardly needs extra refuting. I guess we can say there are "many" or "a lot" of asshole atheists, but those aren't very firm numbers you're using, and they pale in comparison to asshole relgious people (at least in the U.S.). Possibly they are "butthurt" because they are frequently baited into stupid debates with dumbshit Christies if they mention they don't believe in God?

I think the 2 biggest factors that cause people to be dogmatic butthurt atheists are 1) age. seems like mellow on over time 2) the current climate in the US where other people's perverted takes on their religion is foisted onto society at-large. If religious folks, particularly the ones invested with political and administrative power, were peace-loving, charity-giving, tolerant people, I can't see many atheists being dicks about their opinion.

Contenderizer, your argument from experience doesn't support your point, so your point hardly needs extra refuting.

--Gavin

Granny - Sure, I agree that relgious zealotry and intolerance of difference probably help make atheists (especially young atheists) grudgeful. But that's neither here nor there. I wasn't saying butthurt atheists aren't justifed. Just that they exist in large numbers. 'Cuz they do.

I doubt spreading disbelief would necessarily lead to a better world.

I also doubt it would turn us all into L'Etranger and we'd suddenly forget about any reasons to smile and have babies and take care of each other.

A lot of atheists do seem to enjoy buying and reading books about how religion is a rogue meme, a crime against humanity that should be eliminated.

-- contenderizer, Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:22 PM (22 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

i know i do

believing stuff without any evidence is never a good idea, that's all i'm dogmatic about

i dont care if its yahweh, wiccan spirits, or wmds in iraq

also, the positive or negative effects on religion in the world have absolutely zero bearing on the question of whether god exists and i generally avoid using that argument when im talking to religionists

the positive or negative effects on religion in the world have absolutely zero bearing on the question of whether god exists

I cannot DISPROVE God's existence, and as was pointed out, that's enough for me to lose every argument I could ever forward in that direction. Which I think is a failure of human imagination on a sweeping global scale, but I'm not going to go around trying to convince people of that particular thing, because that's just my opinion. On a person-by-person basis, I don't care if you believe in God any more than I care if you bite your toenails when no one's around. Fine. I couldn't give one flat fart.

But then there's this Rogues Gallery of Really Crazy People out there, and they run countries and they kill people... I'm boring myself with this crap. It's so obvious.

I cannot DISPROVE God's existence, and as was pointed out, that's enough for me to lose every argument I could ever forward in that direction.

uh what
why is the burden of proof on you? you can't disprove a lot of things dude, that doesn't mean you have to admit they exist

I am aware of that.

o