Irish politics discussion thread

On another trip, ODL getting fair stick for conducting a dodge interview with Mornign Ireland while hungover this AM. FF think-ins in Galway haven't lost their magic, obviously.

From the other end of your beautiful island, here is a cheery little piece in Ulster Scots* (or thereabouts) from a few months ago regarding the NI Culture Minister's keenness to put up some signs about geology only being a theory at the Giant's Causeway:
http://1690andallthat.blogspot.com/2010/06/giants-causeway.html

* a noble and very real linguistic heritage or a loyalist bid to get in on the money handed out by the EU for themmuns to print leaflets in Irish? well obviously it's not my place to have any opinion

I've always been of the opinion, not exactly researched, that it's a pure cod tbh. The first time I saw a guy (wearing a kilt and a flat cap iirc) speaking this on UTV one night I thought it was just another unfunny 'performance' comedian.

Money for Irish leaflets (and for EU translation in particular)- also a cod, so I'm not misunderstood or anything

don't get this cowen fuss, he sounds a bit slurred and half asleep but...who gives a fuck rly

hey, they got capone on tax evasion, iygwim

While Ireland’s unemployment rate was the sixth highest in the European Union last year, its population remains the second richest of the 27 member states, according to a new report.

think we'll just start printing and handing out a load of €2000 euro notes to fuck, sure won't we be FLYING THEN?

how about dis ting

At Milford District Court in Letterkenny on Monday Judge Séamus Hughes told Joseph McElwee (38) of Aughavennan, Rathmullan, Co Donegal, he was to do the four stations of the famous Mayo pilgrimage as a mark of respect for his fellow Irish people, especially those in the line of duty.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0917/1224279094345.html

can't they let him climb a mountain that doesn't have any religious nonsense associated with it

judge seamus hughes.

worked for the family for a few days once

he's a westport man himself, he's doin his bit for local tourism imo

judges make crap domestic staff ime, all airs and graces and won't play dumb

Garda Nicholas Freyne told the court that while they were on duty in Rathmullan, they saw a large crowd gathered outside a public house and three individuals approached them.

The court heard that the defendant called Garda Freyne a “Mayo w****r” and said “f*** off home to Mayo” continuing his abuse for 10 minutes according to the garda’s evidence.

not sure i disapprove of this kind of creative 'back at ya' sentencing tho tbh

oh right i see what you did there

the bould seamus was state solicitor for the north west region the past few years before his ascension, and he comes from a very nicely established family (portwest heirs, if anyone would recognise the name from outdoor wear). i don't think he ever had to do his own housework, let alone anyone else's.

what sort of negative associations wd someone in donegal have for mayo ppl? cuz that's the most ridiculous 'fuck off back to ____' shit i've ever seen

i'd imagine it was no more than 'oh look, it is a member of the local constabulary, let us mock him about something'

because there are no negative associations between west shannoners, except that city galwegians are a bit arty and city limerickmen are genuinely all fucking remorseless killers

cool.

i never got any sense of stupid resentments between rural irish ppl. i was once on a train w/ kids from sittingbourne and (iirc) gillingham getting into some stupid argument like that and despaired for them. cunts.

it all completely depends.

interfamily disputes are forgotten in neighbour disputes are forgotten in intervillage disputes but christ help us you wouldn't sit by if a fellow st vincents man was fightin with fellas from another parish and yr grandfather couldnt rest in his grave if he knew you'd let someone from the mainland run down the island and sure west mayo before the rest of them and when you get down to it isn't roscommon more dublin than it is connaught but begod you'd always take the side of a roscommon man ahead of anyone from leinster.

it's detailed, but not exactly complicated. my grandfather took knives fightin his way out of a pub in scotland back to back with a fella that he routinely knocked out at marts

disappointed i haven't gotten a rise from galway or limerick heads tbh

i don't think any of my ppl got into goings on like that back in the day

i don't think it was granda mac's style either, the point being that if someone from askill deserved a beating (and it's widely acceptable, judging by this individual's progeny with whom i had the privilege of attending their pre-prison state education, that he probably did) he'd damn well get it at home from fellas that had been waiting this long time for the opportunity, and not overseas from strangers.

my ppl were bourgie drunks and wasters on one side and ira on the other (long time ago)

a lot of nuns too

ah, the drunks and wasters on our side were/are all poor fuckers.

i'll ask the aul fella where we stood with the IRA, i'd imagine there was that in it too alright.

yeah the poor fuckers were the kids of said drunks

a lot of grimness

oh well sure we all have that.

we didn't stay out west because of the weather or anything

Just in the interests of balance, the shower waiting to take over aren't really any different

That's a little light on detail tbh. Career of a young bangarda threatened in front of the leader of the opposition, yadda yadda.

leaked in response to cowen's embarrassing episode last week of course.

breathalysers at the door of the parliament buildings, maybe?

Economy contracts by 1.2% in Q2

Taoiseach Brian Cowen conceded today the latest figures were “disappointing”, particularly after the better than expected results in the previous quarter.

Speaking at the National Ploughing Championships in Co Kildare, Mr Cowen said the focus must be on export-driven growth.

what odds a labour taoiseach?

― quiz show flat-track bully (darraghmac)

they made their first move this week imo.

Cowen reckons Anglo might be 35bn, might be more, sure y'know it's all only figures really lads.

we've achieved 'closure' on anglo irish. by announcing that the fucking thing will cost 29bn.

cunts

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0930/breaking4.html">=http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0930/breaking4.html

29 BILLION 29 BILLION 29 BILLION

i have got to get out of this fucking country, this is insanity

kind of love miriam o'callaghan. asking our minister for finance straight, simple, aggressive questions about bank guarantees and why the irish state/taxpayer is paying 50bn to cover the private bonds issued to private bondholders by private banks.

i know it's more complicated, but at the same time fuckem, we need to see this guy justify his fairytales, nobody ever pushes him on this.

Even when he's arguing for me losing my job, essentially, there's very few I'd have as much faith in as Garret Fitzgerald. Very good piece if anyone' still interested, barely am myself tbh.

THE WHOLE affair of the banks has been a huge distraction from the more fundamental issue of the restoration of our economy to health. A once-off bank bailout of €45-50 billion is, by definition, a lesser problem than a €22 billion annual budget deficit. But this reality has effectively been missed by most people. Now we are finally facing up to this.

Before looking at the deficit problem it is necessary to address the issue of whether more could be done by the Government to revive the economy by “creating” employment, as the unions demand. Some major countries have attempted to do this – although what success they have had is not yet clear.

In our case there are two difficulties about such an approach. First, we are one of the most open economies in the world. We import three-quarters of what we need – such imports represent less than one-third of output in the UK, France and Italy – and a mere one-sixth in the case of the US. In our case the leakage from any stimulus measure would be several times greater than in those other countries. Their economies rather than ours would be the main beneficiaries of an Irish stimulus measure, no matter how finely it was targeted. And we can’t afford to help save the world just now!

Second, our financial shortfall is much more severe than that of the countries that have tried to stimulate growth. This year our revenue is falling short of our expenditure by no less than 38 per cent. So, we have far less leeway for stimulatory measures.

Taken together, these harsh facts suggest we may be one of the worst cases for such action – perhaps the very worst – in the entire developed world.

focus rightly across the pond today, but Vincent Browne of all people gives some food for thought today

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1020/1224281544198.html

yah i read about this last night. shocked 2 b shocked ugh

the 11 bn, sortof out of the loop etc

Could have an election now and over with and a new govt in place before we have to go back to the markets to raise money (3-4 months iirc). Political mandate and stability somewhat assured, at least, which should, theoretically, help us when the time comes to go begging again.

That FG & Lab aren't doing more to push an election means they either don't have the appetite to do the hard work, or don't trust the electorate not to blame them for the damage they'll have to do to clean up.

Don't blame them on the second point, to be honest.

This might cheer up some exiles:

http://img.rasset.ie/0003dcc2-440.jpg

Many Harney attacked with paint while opening a Health Centre in Cherry Orchard.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1102/1224282482641.html

so Irish friends, what do you all think about this? I've been reading Fintan's stuff a lot lately and like, while I can defo see how Nama was the subject of serious reservations at the time, isn't some of the vindictiveness about what the gov did during the Celtic Tiger years a bit due to hindsight? like i'm not defending the politicians (and yeah, they should take a paycut), just I lived in Ireland during those years and I don't remember any national debate about how we were setting ourselves up for disaster or whatever. There were a lot of vague rumblings but it was never something discussed at length to my mind.

anyone remember what o'toole was saying back then? cos i don't recall him talking economics much at all at that time. i know mcwilliams predicted a lot of what has happened but nobody actually predicted it with any urgency, did they? like surely if you really knew this was on the cards, if you really knew "we are going to be FUCKED" and you had any influence whatsoever you would make it clear that was what you thought?

feel free to school me here btw...I'm out of Ireland so I don't have anything like the full background here, I'm just trying to gauge how the totally blasé attitude of the boom years tallies with the anger at what was done during those years...

fair points.

There's a ucd professor, flipped if i can remember his name, maybe morgan? He's been doom mongerin for a while, and catigated pretty hravily for it.

I'm not really a 'blame the media' type tbh, but frankly anyone who didnt think it would last decade and then finish softly ith us all cherry millionaires was always portrayed as a crank. There wss never a far-seeing debate, any negative reporting/issues were almost exclusively short term in nature. The issues of long-term economic policy never arose.

You also have to remember just how dismissively anyone talking the economy down was treated by bertie/ff, and the press happily followed suit.

There's always joe higgins!

txtin from my phone btw

You also have to remember just how dismissively anyone talking the economy down was treated by bertie/ff, and the press happily followed suit.

and the people wanted bertie etc to be right, for everyone to be loaded forever. i guess what i'm getting at is, did our govt do things other govts wouldn't have? like were they outstandingly incompetent?

also i mean hasn't o'toole like released two books on this now? not saying he's trying to earn money but like, only a nominal amount of praise deserved for lambasting the govt when the entire country is lambasting them.

yes, though tbh incompetent does them both too much and too little credit. I would say they were very aware of how long they could milk it, and how to futureproof themselves from blame/consequences.

Prof morgan kelly btw- certainly called bank guarantee and nama pretty well.

Michael mcdowell's brother ?moore? Has always been a serious and authoritative voice on long term matters when i hear him, tho it's fair to say i dont always agree with him.

Another thought- bertie ws astonishingly good at getting 'buyin' from all areas- eradicating the usual conflicts btwn unions/employers for instance, bought short term peace economically, but left us with weak & lazy unions who were basically establishment themselves. When everyone was getting payrises, sure who was going to kick up a fuss for regulation, competitiveness, etc?

yes otoole is a bandwagon jumper, not a prophet, but he writes with good clarity and the right amount of anger imo. Better late than never.

i guess what i'm getting at is, did our govt do things other govts wouldn't have? like were they outstandingly incompetent?

A lot of people said in the years since the dotcom bust that the public finances had become worryingly dependent on transaction taxes related to property and on taxes relating to the construction sector generally. These people said that if there was any fall off in construction or a correction in the property market then the public finances would be in serious trouble. The Government seesm to have ignored these people. Is this what you would consider incompetent?

'these people' would have been known as 'experts who are not direct beneficiaries' in other countries, imo.

one thins that we haven't fixed or even begun to address is the ease with which the issues, and i mean the really big issues, become clogged or clouded in public debate. tribunals, the dáil, police investigations, there's never any clear outcomes, nobody in ever in a position to give a straight answer, it's always oddering aul mary tanaiste left holding the boring even herself with 'he's not in today, sorry' or 'i don't have that information to hand'.

i don't even work in the model of diligence and efficiency that is the irish private sector, but my first performance at a meeting that mirrored the typical govt minister's showing to the dáil would see me up to my neck in shite. but there's never any issue around this.

i feel that bertie made this a prevalent mode of avoidance, but that may only be because i didn't directly experience haughey nor his forebears in action. too subtle a tactic for charlie, perhaps.

fintan o'toole very good on last word, although good ideas on how things should be run if we could start from scratch is maybe the equivalent of marking helen keller in the hurling final.

free

fucking