That's when I'm no longer a by-the-numbers guy. To me, whether Wainwright's WARP or VORP or whatever is a little higher or a little lower than Pujols', he can't be the league MVP because he's not the MVP of his own team. Absent any drastic fluctuations, Pujols is.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 01:04 (thirteen years ago) link
i just realized the relevance of the pop-up thing! wow!
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 01:18 (thirteen years ago) link
^^^ yeah, this kinda blew my mind too
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 11:11 (thirteen years ago) link
I STILL BELIEVE in jay brucehe's gonna hit 35HR next year (i've said this the past 2 years too but This Time It Counts)― ciderpress, Friday, 27 August 2010 02:35 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
he's gonna hit 35HR next year (i've said this the past 2 years too but This Time It Counts)
― ciderpress, Friday, 27 August 2010 02:35 (2 weeks ago) Permalink
has now hit 7 HR in his last 5 games
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 13:07 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway, Verducci's emphasis on the "value" of TC stats for "casual fans" means about as much to me as "casual" movie fans who think the Academy Awards are definitive.
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 17:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Surely you'd agree that Verducci is much smarter than, say, a hack movie writer who takes the Academy Awards really seriously.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 18:49 (thirteen years ago) link
I surely can't imagine why anyone would care about that accomplishment.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 19:34 (thirteen years ago) link
let's put it this way: was Ducky Medwick the last great NL hitter?
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 19:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Muscles Medwick.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 19:54 (thirteen years ago) link
Again, I didn't want to open this up again, because we reached an impasse last time. All I'm saying: Verducci's a smart guy and a good baseball writer, and in that stuff I mitakenly quoted on the steroids thread, I think he does a really good job of conveying why those of us who have fully absorbed 30-some years of Bill James are interested in, even excited by, the (virtually non-existent at this point) Triple Crown chase. I'll read it again, but I don't think Verducci claimed anywhere that Ducky Medwick was the last great N.L. hitter. Once again, I think you're taking our perhaps nostalgic attachment to the concept of a Triple Crown and inferring all sorts of other stuff into that that simply isn't there. James himself has recently written two or three times about the Triple Crown. Not dismissively, but as an interested fan.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:05 (thirteen years ago) link
I never knew that smart people could be interested in stuff that I'm not interested in.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:21 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm not saying don't care about it. I'm just saying don't try to convince me that it means anything beyond "this guy had a great season".
― no gut busting joke can change history (polyphonic), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 20:34 (thirteen years ago) link
It means at least one thing more: "this guy had a great season, and he also did something that no one's done since 1967 because it's a really hard thing to do." I don't think I've made any claims beyond that. And for what it's worth: comparing one's response to an Academy Award winner and one's response to a Triple Crown Winner is perfectly valid, and that's all that Morbius said, and hopefully all that he meant. Because to compare the achievment of winning an Academy Award to the achievement of winning a Triple Crown would be a non sequitur. One is based on the votes of a group of people and is wholly opinion-based; the other measures the actual accomplishments of an individual and is wholly factual. You may not like what it measures, or the way that it goes about measuring it, both those are separate issues.
I wanted Pujols to win because I knew that all of your objections would be taken care of by the fact it was Pujols. Pujols wins the Triple Crown, and I'm pretty sure that when I start looking at home/road splits, and RBI opportunities, and all the rest of it, it won't be a case of "God, no--this guy Pujols is a total fraud!" If Gonzalez wins one, great--I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I'll think, "He had a great season, and he did something that no one's done since 1967," and I'll also think, "He wouldn't have done it had he played somewhere other than Colorado, which really inflates his home stats." That's a lot to keep track of at once. I can do it.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 21:48 (thirteen years ago) link
If Gonzo gets the Triple Crown I won't have any objections whatsoever, but if he gets the MVP that's another story.
― no gut busting joke can change history (polyphonic), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 22:16 (thirteen years ago) link
Comparing MVP winners or Hall of Fame inductees to Academy Award winners, now that would be valid. Baseball writers, for all of the specious picks you can charge them with, are infinitely smarter and more reliable than whoever the hell it is who votes on Academy Awards, especially the past 20-25 years. (I know: "members of the Academy.")
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link
There is only a certain degree to which you can ignore greatness in baseball. Baseball writers know that Alex Rodriguez and JD Drew and Manny Ramirez exist and are useful players, even if they don't always appreciate aspects of their efforts. Meanwhile, Oscar voters generally haven't even heard of the best movies of the year, or appreciate what is good about them.
― no gut busting joke can change history (polyphonic), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 22:29 (thirteen years ago) link
it's alot easier to make an obscure movie that's very good than it is to be a very good obscure MLB player.
― got electrolytes (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 14 September 2010 22:43 (thirteen years ago) link
The major difference, undoubtedly, is that Academy Awards are (most of the time) hugely interconnected to box-office and advertising campaigns and lots of other matters that have nothing to do with the films themselves. Even when they appear not to be, they probably are; I figured that "the Academy" was trying to make a statement last year by giving The Hurt Locker best picture over Avatar. (Not saying anything about the films themselves--thought the first was overrated, no interest in the second.) No such economic push-and-pull influences baseball writers, although I suppose that now and again you get a writer tilt towards an underrated/underpaid player in the MVP voting over a 15-million-dollar guy.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 22:53 (thirteen years ago) link
Having said all that--here I go being a nostalgic dimwit again--when something I love is nominated for an Academy Award (Bill Murray in Lost in Translation, Man on Wire, etc.), I root for it, and if it wins, I'm irrationally happy.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 14 September 2010 22:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Joe (Milwaukee)
Just curious as to how long of a deal you would, were you the Cards GM, offer Pujols. He'll age well won't he?Rob Neyer (12:05 PM)
Look, I'm going to say this now and maybe never again in this space, but ... There are still some reasonably intelligent people with reasonable doubts about Pujols' age. Just for the sake of argument, if he's actually 33 or 34 would you give him eight years? Nine years? Ten?
SHASTA BAIT
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 26 January 2011 12:34 (thirteen years ago) link
'To watch Pujols interact with fans is to watch a prototypical spoiled, arrogant 21st century sports star at his absolute worst'
― mookieproof, Monday, 7 March 2011 01:06 (thirteen years ago) link
So glad Pearlman doesn't have a big gig anymore.
― reggaeton for the painfully alone (polyphonic), Monday, 7 March 2011 01:08 (thirteen years ago) link
haha tru
― mookieproof, Monday, 7 March 2011 01:16 (thirteen years ago) link
2011 capsule:
.156/.243/.250MLB leading 6 GIDPs2-10 w/ RISP (haha, actually better than w/o RISP)2 Errors (total of 4 in 2010)
― City of Jorts (Steve Shasta), Sunday, 10 April 2011 20:52 (thirteen years ago) link
#arbitraryendpoints
― ciderpress, Sunday, 10 April 2011 20:57 (thirteen years ago) link
#captsaveapoohole
― City of Jorts (Steve Shasta), Sunday, 10 April 2011 21:03 (thirteen years ago) link
#shastasbestweekever
― bnw, Sunday, 10 April 2011 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
btw what were they jeering in sf? "Get one hit" or something?
― bnw, Sunday, 10 April 2011 22:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Story on 60 Minutes coming up--is this new?
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 April 2011 23:14 (thirteen years ago) link
maybe he reveals something TERRIBLE in the 60 minutes segment...maybe that's why he's been sucking ass all week...just knowing that everyone will know his terrible secret as soon as the segment airs...god what could it be!
― Z S, Sunday, 10 April 2011 23:18 (thirteen years ago) link
It'll be interesting to see him sitting under a high-powered lamp, sweating, getting the third degree from Leslie Stahl.
― clemenza, Sunday, 10 April 2011 23:22 (thirteen years ago) link
Maybe he'll finally admit that he's really 34 years old, right Shasta?
― Matt Groening's Cousin (Leee), Sunday, 10 April 2011 23:33 (thirteen years ago) link
7 GiDPs...
― City of Jorts (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 02:05 (thirteen years ago) link
i think he noticed how much the yankees overpaid jeter and is trying to emulate his game at all costs
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 12 April 2011 02:07 (thirteen years ago) link
man.
― Z S, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 03:39 (thirteen years ago) link
even when the cardinals are winning, it's just not much fun when pujols isn't effortlessly dominating
sorry, it's just a comment from some random on albert's fangraphs page but:
Fun Fact:ALBERT Einstein had an IQ of 160. That means he is 60% more intelligent than the average human.
ALBERT Einstein had an IQ of 160. That means he is 60% more intelligent than the average human.
that is wrong on so many levels
― Z S, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 03:41 (thirteen years ago) link
wait, sorry, albert einstein, not pujuls...so the 160 part may be correct. the other part, not so much. i will stop talking to myself on this thread...when albert finally gets a hit.
― Z S, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 03:42 (thirteen years ago) link
didn't he open cold a couple of seasons back and wind up with 40+ HRs?
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 06:29 (thirteen years ago) link
I think it was 2007, when his final line was .327/.429/.568
― boots get knocked from here to czechoslovakier (milo z), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 06:32 (thirteen years ago) link
One thing that wouldn't surprise me would be if, at 31, Pujols is on the other side of his peak, and that last year's slightly less imposing line is where he settles in for the next couple of years. He starts at a place where he could probably decline 5% a season and still be the best hitter in the game five years from now.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 11:25 (thirteen years ago) link
he could have entered a decline phase, for sure. i mean beyond the age issue, one only needs to look back to who was arguably the previous "best righthanded hitter in the game", frank thomas. 7 eye-popping offensive seasons, a couple of off years in his 30-31 age seasons, one more MVP-caliber year, and the rest of the way he was dealing with injuries and only had two more seasons which could be considered HOF-caliber or even approaching his peak. i think big hurt had other issues that pujols does not have (body size, nagging injuries, lost seasons) but sometimes these epic hitters just drop off out of nowhere.
― omar little, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 17:52 (thirteen years ago) link
2 AB hitting streak right now
― it's time for the fish in the perculator (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 01:57 (thirteen years ago) link
xp no doubt big first basemen have an annoying habit of falling completely off a cliff.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 03:10 (thirteen years ago) link
yep, really falling apart
― your generation appalls me (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 16 April 2011 03:43 (thirteen years ago) link
all the cards needed was to feast on the nl west to get it together
― strongly recommend. unless you're a bitch (mayor jingleberries), Saturday, 16 April 2011 03:46 (thirteen years ago) link
― City of Jorts (Steve Shasta), Sunday, April 10, 2011 1:52 PM (1 month ago)
Is it okay to talk about this yet? Free agency looming and all...
.267/.336/.415MLB leading 13 GIDPs.327 w/ RiSP (major improvement)5 Errors (total of 4 in 2010, projecting to 16, a career high)
This is a pretty major statistical depression compared to his career #s for a supposed 31 year old ya? Is he hurt again?
― it's a meme i made and i like (Steve Shasta), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 05:26 (twelve years ago) link
errors are a subjective irrelevancy
― the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 11:26 (twelve years ago) link
13 XBH, 14 GIDP
― A Chuck Person's Guide to Mark Aguirre (Andy K), Wednesday, 25 May 2011 12:37 (twelve years ago) link
back to full market value, haters?
― the gay bloggers are onto the faggot tweets (Dr Morbius), Monday, 6 June 2011 05:35 (twelve years ago) link