Britney Spears: Classic or Dud?

I do know that everything I've heard of Britney's stuff smacks of Autotuner on the vocals, and yes, I can hear the effect. I've even used it on my own vocal tracks on occasion and I actually do own the software. (It's a legitimate registered copy even...)

Autotune is commonly used to correct the playing of bass, particularly fretless bass (where it much more possible to be slightly off even if your instrument is completely intonated and in tune). I've also been present at a recording session where it was used on a theramin... another instrument difficult to control with perfect pitch.

I have never seen or heard of Autotune being used on guitar although it's certainly possible. It'd have to be the software version though, as the hardware units simply don't track quickly enough to handle any kind of hammer-on or pull-off technique. Not to mention how badly the hardware box would completely freak out the second a guitarist hits more than one string at the same time.

I have never met a professional guitarist who can't at least tune a guitar to itself. But then, I grew up in Nashville where throwing 10 rocks means you injure 9 session guitarists and one struggle Christian or Country songwriter.

we're pretty good at throwing rocks here in new york city, too, but we're not quite as adept at tuning our guitars.

and, yup, fretless bass is where i've most seen autotune used. my general point, which i think you agree with, is that everyone's getting help from somewhere these days, electronic or otherwise.

Tim, I find your line of thought about doing post-marxist, pomo, etc. readings of Britney troubling, not because I don't think you should do it, but because, again, I think you're trying to justify music's value by how good an object of critical inquiry it makes. I'm not saying that's the only reason you like it, but I don't think it makes a valid point as to why the music is good. An interesting reading could be done of almost any cultural object.

Yes, I agree with you... I was being facetious like I said. But I do think the tuner's not the same as the Autotuner is all. Nit-picky perhaps...

I don't live in Nashville any more, and I did live in NYC for quite some time before I ended up here on the west coast (Seattle). My rock-throwing comment was a joke about Nashville. (You'd be amazed at how many session guys are around, seriously. They are a totally different breed of musician who get paid to play whatever the hell you want and play it well. It's as baffling to me as it is impressive. And no, I'm not one of them. Nor do I think I could be one without an assload more training and practice.)

Autotune, when I notice it, just sounds weird to me -- it flattens the voice.

Well yeah, the problem is that the human voice isn't pitch perfect even when it's singing a single note... You don't notice the slight deviations that give the sound of a voice a distinct character, but you do notice when they are gone, and Autotune can and does get rid of a lot of them.

heck the recording process itself is "help".

Absolutely. And the use of tape instead of digital media does something to the sound at least as significant as Autotune. It's a totally different discussion (and no I'm not an analog snob or anything), but I think the current trends in the recording/mastering process are qualitatively less good than they have been in years past. Not because I think "the 70s sound" is better than "the 90s sound" or whatever, but because overcompression (among other things) has left us with music that actually causes listening fatigue even on equipment designed to minimize this effect. It's not a question of "Oh I think tape sounded better" or "The way they used to record [instrument] before the dawn of [newer technique] sounded much better." It's actually "I can't listen to this for more than an hour without getting a headache even though I actually like the song."

Martin, that last point about listening fatigue is intriguing. I've never heard of that before. Is there anything I can read about this?

It's not a marketing fabrication though... It actually does happen. Find a discussion forum about recording or engineering records and you'll see guys who spend hours recording and mixing bands talk about it and are concerned about it when purchasing monitors or headphones or whatever.

I would spend more time going into the details, but I'm headed out the door to an appointment...

Hurting, correct me if I'm wrong but it was you who brought up the ideology or worldview of Britney's songs as a valid basis upon which to dismiss them. Any ideological reading of a song is treating it as an object of critical enquiry. I brought up post-marxism and deconstruction because these areas of critical thought have greatly undermined the stability of the sort of surface level ideological reading you seemed to be attempting. My point being, if we are going to bring ideology into this, let's do so properly.

I'll state for the records that I don't need to draw on cultural studies in order to love a lot of Britney's music.

And nobody knows what Britney sans Autotune sounds like.

Going by the live SNL 'I'm Not A (Real) Girl, Not Yet An Upgraded Sexbot' of 3 years ago, not too bad.

What might be the broad outlines or the paragraph abstract for a "proper", non-surface ideological reading of Britney's songs?

then they had a segment on black pop beauties (beyonce, ashanti and then i stopped watching to post that britney trivia fact above).

not relevant to current focus of thread i know

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RujDatFeb0&search=Sang%20Won%20Park

Jonathan if you're still interested in reading involved dissections of pop ideology I can point you to numerous tedious (my fault mostly) threads on dissensus.

her face

i recently heard "toxic" for the first time in years and holy jesus has it got to be one of the best pop songs of the decade, if not ever.

True.

And Blackout is outrageously good.

We know!

I really really like "blackout" but couldn't give a shit about the latest album.

^^

you're missing out on some killer songs. it definitely has a few that aren't good. blackout didn't have that problem. but still, missing out.

http://i36.tinypic.com/r0o3ef.jpg

I won't hold it against her!

Lies. (Maybe not.)

Her US chart history really is odd, I would have thought "I'm a Slave 4 U" and "Piece of Me" were top tens also

I love “Til the World Ends”

listening to it now

what about "3"?

Huh I thought “Slave 4 U” was a top 10 hit in the US. In Europe and LatinAmerica it definitely was. Was the video too much or got censored for American audiences?

the "i'm a slave 4 u" video was really big on mtv. it was radio that didn't play it much compared to a lot of her other songs.

What is this #freebritney shyt?

Seems like fans reading too much into things?

Does the new song ("Swimming in the Stars") slap? I'm trying to decide.

I briefly got very excited in the final thirty seconds when it threatened to go drum & bass, but turns out it's the cruellest mirage ever.

beat the press by the butthole surfers sums up her material!

she's no William Orbit, that's for true