Batman carries on beginning in ... The Dark Knight

what were you expecting in a comic book movie, David Mamet?

no, not at all. but you can't call it a great movie on one hand and then turn around and say of course it's lightweight nonsense what-do-you-expect on the other. (which maybe you aren't saying, i don't know, it's a long thread.)

hay i seen a hollywood movie (that really horrible bit of dialogue where he has to explain his scars) atleast X 2 yu mean

just dropping by without context. can someone pls link to that thread that resume long threads%?

i expect comic-book movies to be incoherent nonsense, i just hope for them to be better-made and less overbearing.

"yes he was lying. he always lied! or did he! he was just like us, but more honest. or was he? so meta."

huh??

i really want to take my by now probably typical 'youre getting way too philosophical & ignoring the viscerality that is this formats best & primary means of speaking to its audience' tack but id get accused of being a rube

in defense of that line of argument though: the first scene wasnt about depth or explaining the jokers origins (maybe, to some extent, it was intended to be deceptively so) - it was about making us wonder what the fuck he was about to do to this dude, & keeping us on the edge of our seats while we waited to find out. the second scene (iirc, there mayve been another in between or after) was meant to do the same as far as maggie g's charcter was concerned, while expanding the complexity of the joker - if youre so intellectually distant from the movie that you didnt give a damn about its more visceral aspects, i dont know why you bothered to pay for it, except to tell people as much

if youre so intellectually distant from the movie that you didnt give a damn about its more visceral aspects, i dont know why you bothered to pay for it, except to tell people as much

because everybody including my brother, ilx and manohla dargis told me it was better than it is. and i love my brother, i like ilx and i don't have anything against manohla dargis. i just ain't feel it. i don't begrudge warner bros. my $11, but having spent it i'm allowed to say it's a pretty dull event.

well, it was no Goodbye, Dragon Inn...

fewer steamed buns, for one thing.

i do agree that this movie was too long. the hong kong sequence was nifty but will probably be fast forwarded when i buy the DVD.

another big issue i had, and i hope this isn't any kind of spoiler alert at this point in the thread, is that the whole plan with the bombs on the ferries is just impossible to plan in advance. i try really hard to suspend my disbelief for villainous schemes in comic book adaptations, but the idea that he knew the city would be evacuated on these ferry boats, and had the manpower and foresight to load hundreds of barrels of gas or whatever it was onto them was so ridiculous i found myself wanting to rewind to figure out what i missed. i guess the bus backing into the bank thing was pretty bad that way, too.

i liked both this and BB, but agree that they don't touch the Bourne movies. and frankly they didn't come close to bringing me the kind of joy I felt the first time i read Batman: Year One and The Long Halloween, either.

I don't really understand needing to compare the Bourne vs. the Batman films - beside that they came out during the same era, are of high overall quality and star power, and have some absurdly overdirected fight scenes, they don't exactly live in the same universes, you know?

And dear Lord, don't ever pay attention to Manohla Dargis, she is terrible.

another big issue i had, and i hope this isn't any kind of spoiler alert at this point in the thread, is that the whole plan with the bombs on the ferries is just impossible to plan in advance. i try really hard to suspend my disbelief for villainous schemes in comic book adaptations, but the idea that he knew the city would be evacuated on these ferry boats, and had the manpower and foresight to load hundreds of barrels of gas or whatever it was onto them was so ridiculous i found myself wanting to rewind to figure out what i missed. i guess the bus backing into the bank thing was pretty bad that way, too.

compare and contrast "no, I shoot the bus driver" and a bus immediately ploughing through the wall vs trying to blow up a hospital with the detonator in his hand and it not going off and him mashing the keys over and over and looking really stupid

the latter still raises questions about his ability to make explosives be everywhere tho

When he drove out of the bank into the convoy of other buses, didn't one of the other drivers think "hey there's a bus driving out of a bank, and lookie here's a load of police cars coming towards the bank, that's a bit sus..."?

Could've done the boat thing with a more modest and undetectable bomb, instead of a whole engine room full of oil barrels.

Hadn't the Joker mined the tunnels leading out of the city (or done something to them, at any rate) so he knew the ferries would have to be used for the evacuation. Of course, how he arranged to get one ferry full of convicts and another full of civilians was the major leap of logic for me.

It wasn't neccessary to prove his point that it was so, would've worked as well with two ferries of civilians. It was a nice bonus I suspect.

I think the key thing people are forgetting is that this is a film.

I knew if this thread went on long enough all the joy would be sucked out of this movie.

A thread either dies a hero or lives long enough to suck all the joy out of a movie.

i try really hard to suspend my disbelief for villainous schemes in comic book adaptations, but the idea that he knew the city would be evacuated on these ferry boats, and had the manpower and foresight to load hundreds of barrels of gas or whatever it was onto them was so ridiculous i found myself wanting to rewind to figure out what i missed.

-- rockapads, Friday, August 1, 2008 1:03 AM

Hadn't the Joker mined the tunnels leading out of the city (or done something to them, at any rate) so he knew the ferries would have to be used for the evacuation. Of course, how he arranged to get one ferry full of convicts and another full of civilians was the major leap of logic for me.

-- Stone Monkey, Friday, August 1, 2008 7:59 AM

Yes, when the Joker makes his announcement, you see a bunch of people sitting in a bar watching it on TV, and they all start to run out in a panic, then he says that perhaps he's mined the tunnels and bridges, and everyone comes to a stop, not knowing how to proceed.

Do people just get instant amnesia when they leave theaters these days, or do they not pay attention if something isn't exploding?

yes

Do people just get instant amnesia when they leave theaters these days, or do they not pay attention if something isn't exploding?

to be fair, it is easy for details to get lost in overlong movies with nonsensical, convoluted plots in which characters repeatedly do dumb things for no good reason except to set up the next nonsensical, convoluted action set-piece.

GO WATCH A MIKE LEIGH FILM, BORING PERSON

i like action movies. (that's why i mentioned the bourne films in comparison, so as to avoid directives to go watch mike leigh films.)(although i like some mike leigh films, it's true.) but this is just a fitfully entertaining brainless big-budget jumble. it's your basic 2-star movie.

the one voice of honest reason amid the blind hyperbolic masses

Alfred Soto: I just caught up with with this thread and your recent thoughts and I agree mightily with your comments on Nolan's disinterest in Wayne/Batman and a lot of other things you've mentioned. I think that Nolan is uninterested in probing character motivation in films, generally.

Well, thanks! tipsy mothra also OTM.

GO WATCH EVIL FRENCH / ASIAN SHLOCK MOVIES, STUDENT PERSON

scik i agree with you more or less utterly about this movie, i was doing something there known as "holding up a mirror"

I was taking the piss, Louis. I know yr a graduate now.

the one voice of honest reason amid the blind hyperbolic masses

ha. no. it's just, this is a long thread about this movie, i saw this movie yesterday, i like talking about movies. i'm just doing the same thing as the other 150 people here who have commented on it. i don't share the consensus enthusiasm and find it a little puzzling, but i'm sure the consensus will somehow survive that shock.

this movie looks like some old bullshit to me

well fair enough! just wish you'd made your subjectivity a bit more obvious y'know. :P xpost

Personally, I thought it flew by, and the lack of a formula worked in it favour. It was like an (awesome) extended television drama in its pacing.

ive seen tipsy comment on other movie threads & he's always insightful as fuck, which is why i'm sorta taken aback by how BORING (no offense meant srsly, but SM is right) his criticisms are: tips i think maybe you unfortunately bought the line that this movie is truly beyond its genre, when its not, it just does it really really fucking well. i get the idea that this kind of movie isnt really yr cup of tea (could be totally wrong) but that you were led to believe this one was truly special or something, & it is (imo), but if youre not willing to buy into the spirit of the genre youre still going to hate it. thats sort of my take on yr criticism anyway, i dunno.

i would like to hear more about how everyones decision making is non-sensical & stupid outside of the set pieces tho, ill probably hate what you have to say & roll my eyes but i dont remember feeling that right now

I don't know jack about comics but this movie inspired me to buy "batman:year one" and "the long Halloween" and "the killing joke" from amazon! I don't think I've read a comic in 15 years.

all three of those are really good, Moore one is probably the silliest

Year One probably the best thing Miller ever did imho (good thing he didn't draw it)

Ah really? I thought Moore was like the comic genius dude?

yeah he is and the book is good but its pretty tossed off. it is not representative of his work in general at all.

(beyond its reliance on narrative/graphic symmetry - a trick he uses fairly consistently)

Killing Joke is really good as a non-Moore comic, I think. It's just that with Moore's name attached, fans get really disappointed.

as Moore says "its just a Batman Annual"

Pretty much with tipsy here. I thought it was an okay film, but by no means a great one (speaking as someone who has no strong feelings either way about the superhero genre). Plot was an incoherent string of implausible schemes; Dent/Two-Face was a pointless character who contributed nothing more than a nice piece of gross-out SPFX; Bale as Wayne was okay, Bale as Batman was laughable; fight scenes were inept and far too plentiful; the oppressive brutality and seriousness made the comic-book contrivances seem glaringly ridiculous; and the last hour was a slog. The film does raise some interesting philosophical and political questions, and a lot of the acting was top-notch (fine work from the supporting players and a star turn from Ledger), but that's all I got out of it. Want to see it again, but mostly 'cuz I'm sure I must have missed something.

Felt the same way about the LotR movies, though, so maybe it's just that I don't like fun.

I'm more or less with you, contenderizer. It occurred to me a few days ago that I didn't discuss Dent/Two-Face much in my review; but a "nice piece of gross-out FX" plus (I'd add) "most purely symbolic figure in the film" is a good way to go.

incoherent, pointless, laughable, inept, ridiculous, brainless, nonsensical, embarassing...these are the problems with the movie?

ok, that's just a bit hyperbolic, don't you think? you can dislike a movie without actively insulting everyone who did like it!

i mean i dont really get why everyone has to either think it's a genius perfect masterwork or a brainless incoherent mess. surely it's a work of art/commerce that deserves at least a slightly more measured response?

yes, maybe a few thousand more posts

i will MURDER those who dislike it with my bare fucking hands

Wet Nap?

You can dislike a movie without actively insulting everyone who did like it!

-- ryan