Robyn

I don't think Fembot is her best song, but yeah, what he said. xpost

I adore "Dancing on My Own," didn't much care for "Fembot" and haven't heard the rest of the Body Talk stuff. Though, both are arriving in the mail this afternoon(!) from Amazon, so I'll be more informed in short order.

Indexed: I hope "Fembot" works as an effective bridge, I didn't really like it in isolation.

soooo

i have to admit. Dancing On My Own has really come together as a whole song for me, and it pretty much destroys everytime.

Rich is absolutely OTM:

If you love her voice, great; if you don't, it will cloy you to death. Robyn's interpretive skills are minimal at best: She opens her mouth and smiley faces come out. Her perpetual upward lilt and limited range give her delivery a detrimental sameness

Really excited about Pt. 2 now. Does anyone know if their distribution in the US is to larger chains, or will I have to seek out a record store?

Indexed, I don't know how you can get that deep into internal rhymes and then ignore all the more important and obvious horrible stuff going on around it. Fembots have feelings too? What the hell is she talking about? "I'm sipping propane topped with a cherry"? "Once you've gone tech you ain't never going back"? Does she get a pass for this stuff because she isn't a native English speaker? The "I've got some news for you" tag is sing-song awful and her voice is extra cloying in the verses. She doesn't even sound especially robotic--the backing vocals do that for her. And not to turn this into Common People chapter 2 but the word "fembot" has a Rush Limbaugh meaning over here in the States that I can't ignore.

"Don't Fucking Tell Me What To Do" is also a stupid song for anyone over the age of 13 despite the shoutouts to adult problems. Again the production is interesting but to enjoy it you have to hear a grown woman say "don't fucking tell me what to do" over and over again.

most lyrics sound pretty stupid to me so i don't pay attention to them. it's all fine by me.

skip, when was the last time a pop star was hailed for their meaningful lyrics? In the context of pop, I primarily care about two things: production + melody. The song isn't "about" anything. She probably just wrote down a bunch of words that somewhat relate to technology and computers and worked them into a song. My question isn't, 'What does she mean?,' it's 'Who cares?'

The production + melody equation stands up on the whole of Body Talk Pt. 1, but fails throughout much of Pt. 2. Here's where I take issue with the crux of Rich's argument: for the most part, I just don't care. I very rarely listen to this type of music for the quality of the voice. In fact, it is regularly the pop singers with the best chops (i.e. Christina and Mariah Carey) who put out the most bland albums. Say what you will about Britney's talent as a singer, she's had an incredible musical career due to her production and melodies (let's not start down the 'superstar'/image road).

The songs I dislike most on Part 2 are "Love Kills" (which has great production) and "We Dance to the Beat." They fall flat because the melodies aren't there. Let Beyoncé sing "Love Kills" and it'd still fall flat, because the melody is boring.

I'd like to say a couple more words on Robyn and what she's trying to do as a whole this year, which is really something that should be admired. Pop music is typically exciting because it comes in 3 minute snip-its. Try listening to a pop album released in the last decade, however, and by its 73rd minute, you'll be clawing your ears out. Then wait three years for the artist to tour and run out of singles to finally put out a new record. What Robyn's doing should be the model for pop. Release 30 minute albums, because who wants to listen to more than 45 minutes of this stuff? And release them often because it boosts your profile each and every time, and keeps the consumer/fan excited for what's next. I sure hope she doesn't quit at the end of 2010 and wait another 5 years to put out her next batch...

Try listening to a pop album released in the last decade, however, and by its 73rd minute, you'll be clawing your ears out.

rong

I like the idea of 30-minute albums as much as anyone, but my problem's with Robyn herself (outside a couple of really good singles).

when was the last time a pop star was hailed for their meaningful lyrics?

all the time? or at least, if not "meaningful" in the profound sense, then at least pithy or witty or evocative or any of the manifold ways pop lyrics can be good.

In fact, it is regularly the pop singers with the best chops (i.e. Christina and Mariah Carey) who put out the most bland albums

rong, both specifically re: xtina and mariah, and as a general rule.

Try listening to a pop album released in the last decade, however, and by its 73rd minute, you'll be clawing your ears out.

rong, so many counterexamples to even list (though obv most pop albums don't even make it to 73mins)

the three-part mini-album is a great idea, though labels have been experimenting w/pared-down mini-releases for a while, and of course if anything proved the legitimacy of this model it was the fame monster

Rich is absolutely OTM:

If you love her voice, great; if you don't, it will cloy you to death. Robyn's interpretive skills are minimal at best: She opens her mouth and smiley faces come out. Her perpetual upward lilt and limited range give her delivery a detrimental sameness

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 9 September 2010 16:09 (3 hours ago) Permalink

def the most otm thing i've heard about robyn, sums up my feelings to a T.

lol @ mariah putting out bland albums as compared to britney though. the idea that a good voice oft makes for bland albums is pretty laughable on the whole.

I'd say it's almost OTM but not quite, as I don't really hear smiley faces on "With Every Heartbeat" or "Be Mine". She isn't the world's most versatile singer but she also is not as monolithic/one-note as pre-Rated R Rihanna.

The "meaningful lyrics" standard is a bit of a straw man but I don't disagree with you on the general importance of lyrics in pop music. Parsing Robyn for deep meaning obviously misses the point. That said, lyrics can be bad enough that they distract, and the words on the Body Talk project are so in-your-face on that they are impossible to ignore. "Include me out", "don't fucking tell me what to do", "none of dem", "once you've gone tech you never go back" are cringeworthy and distracting.

Hang With Me is probably my track of the year and that's because the lyrics melt into the background and let me enjoy the songwriting and production. The combination of Robyn's distinctive vocal delivery, the front-loading of the vocals in the mix, the ridiculous lyrical content, and occasional moments when the melody itself highlights the ridiculous lyrical content make that impossible on much of the rest of Body Talk. I wish it were otherwise.

the idea that a good voice oft makes for bland albums is pretty laughable on the whole.

I think this statement is deeply OTM and says more about the laziness of listeners than anything else; if you want a reason for why a Mariah Carey album is unsatisfying, the answer is likely going to be found in some of the material she's singing, not because her voice is "too good" (not that anyone's saying that about Mariah these days)

xp: lol "Don't Fucking Tell Me What To Do" is the only song on Body Talk vol 1 that I've played more than twice

"once you've gone tech you never go back" are cringeworthy and distracting.

Didn't even know this is what she was saying.

I got into Robyn at the same time I was into Rachel Stevens and Girls Aloud in a big way, so limited vocals are cool in my book.

Right, I don't think there is an implied correlation between "good" voices and "bad" albums (i.e., a good voice guarantees neither a good album, nor a bad one). The point is that there is NO correlation; and, that those listening to pop albums solely on account of good voices are not necessarily listening to the "best" albums, specifically because there is hardly any correlation between good voices and interesting pop songs.

xp to HI DERE

Though, I am hesitant to start talking about anything related to good voices w/ HI DERE, on account of the last convo we had on that subject...

i actually do think Hang With Me is a pretty great, wide-reaching pop song.

Try listening to any released in the last 10 decades, however, and by its 73rd minute, you'll be clawing your ears out.

50 mins then gtfo

Parsing Robyn for deep meaning obviously misses the point.

I can't even understand this. Criticism is "parsing" anything for "deep meaning."

, that those listening to pop albums solely on account of good voices are not necessarily listening to the "best" albums

That is entirely dependent upon why you are listening to the album!

If you primarily listen to music for singers' voices, particularly singers of a certain style, the intricacies of the songwriting behind them is going to be important to you only insofar as it shows off the person singing the song. One of the reasons why both Celine Dion and Beyonce get away with singing some of their more egregiously awful songs is because people really, really love the way they both sound on them. Delving into the songwriting is likely to remain the province of the minority of listeners.

That Voice review is good prose but obnoxious criticism. He's very self-important about taking down Robyn's fans (with exclamation marks to denote sarcasm!) and has a real bee in his bonnet about her perceived narcissism (again in relation to her fans). Does he think Dancing Is My Own is a true story? He's not a humourless writer but he's completely missed the humour in Robyn's songwriting.

Cuz she's not funny?

also she has the gall to appear in her videos.

It's one thing to not enjoy Robyn's sense of humour, it's quite another to pretend it isn't there at all. I hate critics who slam an artist for not being what their "loudest fans", "champions" and "music snobs" claim, without specifying what those claims are. I also hate critics who write lines like: "As she transitioned from Max Martin–molded tart to a dish of her own design…" Ugh.

It is coming across more like you hate critics you disagree with.

That article smacks of the guy not only not liking her music, but annoyed that the indie fans like it and claim it as their own for some reason. So on top of 'she's not that good' (fair enough) he wants to show her up as no more than your standard pop artist.

also this

the broken booty bass of "Criminal Intent" would get her ass laughed out right out of Miami

annoys me.

xpost. Not at all. I like plenty of critics I disagree with - I just find the tone of this review weird and offputting. It's too pedantic, full of misreadings, and, as Gukbe says, depends too much on ranting about strawman "music snobs", ie people he disagrees with.

I've never read this guy before - maybe he was having a weird day.

the broken booty bass of "Criminal Intent" would get her ass laughed out right out of Miami

HI DERE

actually, Rich is one of the more generous and thorough critics out there.

http://fourfour.typepad.com/fourfour/2010/07/a-collage-for-a-collage.html

Another of his pieces

Oh that was him? Loved that.

the idea that a good voice oft makes for bland albums is pretty laughable on the whole.

― janice (surm), Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:15 PM (55 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I obviously wasn't arguing that good voices make bad albums, but rather that good voices are neither necessary nor sufficient conditions for good pop albums. I will likely get laughed at for this opinion, but fuck it: I prefer the new Kesha record to the last Mariah record. Now, I recognize that Kesha is pretty obnoxious, can't sing for shit, and writes terrible lyrics. Compared to Mariah Carey, she's nothing. But try listening to E=MC2 and I guarantee you'll turn it off by the fifth track. It's just boring. At least Kesha sounds young/fun.

That said, lyrics can be bad enough that they distract, and the words on the Body Talk project are so in-your-face on that they are impossible to ignore. "Include me out", "don't fucking tell me what to do", "none of dem", "once you've gone tech you never go back" are cringeworthy and distracting.

Hang With Me is probably my track of the year and that's because the lyrics melt into the background and let me enjoy the songwriting and production. The combination of Robyn's distinctive vocal delivery, the front-loading of the vocals in the mix, the ridiculous lyrical content, and occasional moments when the melody itself highlights the ridiculous lyrical content make that impossible on much of the rest of Body Talk. I wish it were otherwise.

― skip, Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:17 PM (54 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Honestly, I don't find those lyrics cringeworthy at all.

As for "Hang With Me," she didn't write it (neither the lyrics nor the song). So that's probably why you like it more. I love it. It's tremendous. And I'm glad we agree on that front.

That article smacks of the guy not only not liking her music, but annoyed that the indie fans like it and claim it as their own for some reason. So on top of 'she's not that good' (fair enough) he wants to show her up as no more than your standard pop artist.

― a cankle of rads (Gukbe), Thursday, September 9, 2010 2:47 PM (24 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

OTM

But try listening to E=MC2 and I guarantee you'll turn it off by the fifth track. It's just boring. At least Kesha sounds young/fun.

Do you realize who you're addressing here?

yeah, Mariah is not the way to go here.

I get where you're coming from, though that was covered by the Celine Dion mention upthread. It's like Olly Murs singing 'Twist and Shout' on X Factor.

first of all, Indexed, E=MC2 is not the last mariah album. second, it is a bad example of a Mariah album. it is definitely boring by the 5th or 6th track, but this is not the case for most of her albums.

I obviously wasn't arguing that good voices make bad albums
not so obvious. you said "In fact, it is regularly the pop singers with the best chops (i.e. Christina and Mariah Carey) who put out the most bland albums." same difference, in terms of argument.

also i would listen to mariah carey's worst album over kesha's best any day. any. day.

i'm pretty upfront about when mariah's music is shit, and she's definitely had her moments. but i wouldn't even dream of spinning a k$sha record in my house, like, ever.

Haha, fair enough, janice.

Just found this on NME's tracks you have to hear this week. I know Lex is really going to hate this but I think it's rather lovely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB27jQkO0Cs

xp :D

funnily, i heard that bjork cover the other night

But try listening to E=MC2 and I guarantee you'll turn it off by the fifth track.

i've spun e=mc2 many a time and never turned it off by the 5th track. the 5th track is "side effects", for heaven's sake, one of the best songs of her career! and the 6th is all-time classic 4eva spring jam "i'm that chick"! i would probably skip the 7th track, "love story", though. can't even remember how that goes. but even then the second half still holds the excellent "o.o.c.", "for the record", "i wish you well"...

the broken booty bass of "Criminal Intent" would get her ass laughed out right out of Miami

this doesn't annoy me, because robyn gets a lot of undeserved plaudits for her beats, most of which are pretty weedy takes on club music. that track is booty bass for people who've heard of, but never heard (and aren't interested in hearing), booty bass.

rich j is maybe my favourite critic around, even when he's wrong (nicki minaj) he's basically right (that "family guy approach to referencing" line is seriously the only thing i've ever read about an artist i love that's made me genuinely reconsider for a minute).

actually, lex is right about the first 6 tracks on e=mc2. thanks for that reminder, lex. there is only 1 track in those 6 that isn't wonderful ("i stay in love," tho i know lex and i disagree on that).

however, e=mc2 definitely does boast a few decidedly bland tracks, and "i stay in love" really is a clunker as it is in the tracklist.

Fans thinking a critic's singling them out = very lame.

i like "i stay in love" but i wouldn't call it wonderful. shameless, maybe. i would sometimes skip it, but only sometimes.

i'm pretty embarrassed i said that about the 1st 6 tracks, considering a few of them are some of my favorite moments in her career.

but i still get what Indexed was saying about the record.