― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 5 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Anyway, I believe we've gone over and over the Erotica thing in the past (a big decisive split amongst the Madonna faithful - those who like Erotica and those who don't just plain don't get along at all), and you might or might not recall that I agreed with your views 100%. The subtext of the album is fascinating, but just besides that, almost all of it sounds great. Bad Girl is sumptuous, Waiting is fierce, Erotica is a classic, Deeper and Deeper is fantastic (and the self-referentialness of the ending cracks me up), Rain is one of Madonna's most gorgeous songs. I could go on and on and on. It trails off a bit towards the end but it's still a good solid chunk of music, and I find it to be her most consistent work. Like a Prayer is a good album butI still think it's terribly overrated - undoubtably Express Yourself and Like a Prayer are two of the best things Madonna's ever done, but stuff like the Prince duet and Dear Jesse make me cringe.
I've noticed a huge "reevaluation" of Erotica myself, but then again I didn't notice a huge dissing of it when it first came out. It's curious - or maybe the right word is "expected" - but it wasn't until after SEX was released that the album started getting trashed (and even worse when Body of Evidence came out). The problem with SEX was that the public wasn't ready for it combined with the fact that unfortunately Madonna didn't get her point across very eloquently. If she'd never done SEX, I don't think this would even be a discussion.
― Ally, Wednesday, 5 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 5 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Wednesday, 5 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Blasphemy, alright. That album deserves 3.5/4 just for "White Heat" alone. Madonna is probably REALLY embarassed about that song, which is why it's so good. Plus it has some of her most underrated singles on it as well. Not as good as Erotica, obviously.
― EdwardO, Wednesday, 5 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dave q, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Ally, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Yeah, believe me, I think it's really bizarre. ;) Ally, "A" always appreciated your wit. (Of course, I got to see your picture so I appreciated other things, too). I know you didn't care for Ray of Light but never minded' it was only the ("real") fan-atics and sick- sychophants who objected. And when did we ever pay attetion to them? :P As for giving Aaron a message, I'm afraid I can't do that since I haven't posted there in years myself. It sort of imploded when a schizo started spamming the place.
I don't really know if viewing the videos would have made such a great difference in your appreciation of the music, but if it's helped you on earlier albums (I myself can't stand to listen to the first one without visuals - just can't stomach the voice on half the cuts) you might want to give her '93-'99 video collection a try. The best videos, Bad Girl and Rain, are on there; Bad Girl was basically everything Body of Evidence SHOULD have been - an arresting, tragic narrative on the promiscuous life of a self-loathing "liberated" woman - propelled by David Fincher's razor sharp direction and. Another Christopher Walken contribution to the art of video (he plays an angel? demon? cigarette dispatcher? aerobics master - WHAT?), gotta love that. =) Cinematography, still the most accomplished. Rain was cultural appropriation of the highest order, with the Japanese studio-characters providing a nice contrast to the endless depth of Madonna's aquamarine contact lenses. (For cultural appropriation of the lowest order, check out "Nothing Really Matters.") I think Erotica and Deeper & Deeper are effective too; still don't understand why they got left off. Fever was the only one that was lame in spots (the flower covering the vagina spots, in particular). Deeper & Deeper was the video, after all, that spear-headed the entire 70s' retro-fashion chic with her "video shoot" in the middle of it. Well that and Eddie Vedder's neo-classical locks, : ) made the 90s into the 70s again starting in '92! Thank god we didn'tcontinue on with wherever the 80s were going, fashion-wise...
I wrote Fred Solinger an email, he never replied. Ah well...
And yeah, Sophia sucks. Virgin Suicides sucked *big* time, but I love the Air score...
:P Vic
― Vic, Thursday, 6 September 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
Hey Ally, if you don't mind me asking: what *is* your sign anyway ? Still have a Spice Girl appreciation-thing going on, or has that branched out into A-teens/All-Saints fandom? Just curious. ;P
V
Anyhow, I do think Dave is right and it's been something I've thought for a while: the complete disregard for Erotica does come down to, on some level, sexism. There have been loads of male rock stars who've gone as far as Madonna, but I don't see anyone raising much of an eyebrow, besides the extreme right. Madonna does it and it becomes an "issue".
As for Like a Prayer, I think that's a good point, that it's a very girly, feminine, pink-elephants-and-lemonaide type of album. It's like a musical version of a stereotypical slumber party. Erotica, on the other hand, is a very hard edge album (by Madonna standards), and as such comes off as "inappropriately" masculine. *shrugs* But I always thought that sort of traipsing back and forth between stereotypes in art was supposed to be applauded, not vilified. At least when the aforementioned David Bowie does it ;)
revive!!!!!
― geeta, Monday, 20 June 2011 00:15 (twelve years ago) link
great first paragraph there
― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Monday, 20 June 2011 00:18 (twelve years ago) link
best opening post to an ilx thread ever?
it just brings you back to the basic fact that, yknow, cut through everything - god i love madonna
― the smoke cloud of pure hatred (lex pretend), Monday, 20 June 2011 01:17 (twelve years ago) link
i just found some demos dave q sent me eight years ago, for an ambitious concept album he was working on based on donna summer's 'bad girls'. i wonder if he ever did any madonna covers.
― geeta, Monday, 20 June 2011 02:20 (twelve years ago) link