The dB's - Classic or Dud

that said, on the strength of the first album, total classic.

Stamey solo records, I've heard "It's Alright" and his first solo album, the one with "Depth of Field." It's nice, the production is dated, though. "It's Alright" is actually very good, a few duds, but the title track is quite impressive.

They really were one of the first groups to take what Big Star did and extend it into the '80s, and as such always seemed far more credible than, say, Teenage Fanclub, who were always a bit underpowered for my tastes. And Will Rigby is a great drummer.

can i ask which are the other essentials?

Fountains Of Wayne
Let's Active
The Shins
New Pornographers
Ministry

can i ask which are the other essentials?

Why certainly.

I'd say:

Big Star--#1 Record; Radio City
Marshall Crenshaw--Marshall Crenshaw; Field Day
Badfinger--Straight Up; No Dice
Todd Rundgren--Something/Anything (kinda beyond p-p but contains the essential "Couldn't I Just Tell You"
Everly Brothers--Two Yanks in England ('66, roots of American power-pop right here)
Move--Shazam; Something Else from the Move (contains "Fire Brigade" and "Wild Tiger Woman," both quintessential p-p)
Easybeats--Absolute Anthology
Left Banke--Walk Away Renee/Pretty Ballerina (mo' roots of A.P.P.)
Records--The Records (spotty but includes "Starry Eyes" and "Teenarama," essential)
dBs--Stands for Decibels
Flamin' Groovies--Shake Some Action; Now (not entirely consistent but good stuff)
Cheap Trick--"If You Want My Love"; "In Color" I guess--not really as nuanced as the best power-pop, but their hearts were in the right place, and I'd call them the slightly watered-down populist wing of the genre)
"Blue Ash"
Chris Bell--I am the Cosmos
Raspberries--Starting Over

that's really about it. Teenage Fanclub, Jellyfish, etc., did some nice stuff but can't really think of one great album by them. Ditto Diesel Park West, who did the best Big Star rip ever on "All the Myths on Sunday" but whose LPs aren't too good. The Posies don't really cut it for me, although some nice stuff. The Shins are somewhat in the vein, but a bit too folky. 10cc tried too hard, although I like 'em OK. Tom Petty kinda did it, but too fuckin' populist for my taste. The Beatles, Byrds, Zombies, Who are often cited as the roots of the genre and I won't disagree, but I think the Everly Brothers in the mid-'60s were far more to the point of what power-pop became than any of them. The Small Faces and the Kinks certainly had their power-pop moments but overall, no. The Knack were really odious, although of course they had one big hit. Squeeze was good but they were something else, although there are a few things you could call power-pop in their ouvre. The Nazz weren't really very good. Dwight Twilley didn't make a really consistently good album.

I think Greg Shaw and those Bomp! people did the world a disservice with their lame-ass attempt to define the genre. Sweet isn't power-pop, and I don't think the Who is ultimately that important either. The roots of the genre lie in the American attempt to do the Beatles--and I think the Everly Brothers in the mid-'60s were every bit as good as the Beatles and had the necessary American dislocation and melancholy that makes the genre what it is. It ain't never been skinny ties and big chiming guitars and all that, nope.

Let 'er rip!

I like Teenage Fanclub's earlier albums. They seemed to get more streamlined and cleaned up as they went on and I couldn't get into it as much. "Bandwagonesque" is good front to back, even if part of it is a total Big Star rip.

What about Shoes, Rubinoos, and records I've never heard like the Quick's album on Mercury and the Milk 'n' Cookies album on Island?

Ministry, now there's some power pop for ya.

"Amplifier" is definitely classic. Repercussion as a whole... not a dud, but certainly not on the power pop essentials list.

Yeah, those are the ones I like best off "Repercussion."

"The Fight" off the first one is a dud, I think.

As far as the Shoes go, I like them fine, especially the very first one. I guess my problem with it, though, is that they seem like a gloss on the real thing rather than the real thing itself.

And my power-pop aesthetic for what it's worth has not so much to do with "rocking." I want rocking, I'll listen to any number of other things. The Knack just seem one-dimensional to me. As does Cheap Trick, whom I've grown to like more the last few years. For my taste the whole power-pop thing is about not-exactly-rocking, you know? Seems to me there has to be a certain ruefulness about it, which is why I like Big Star or the Everlys so much. I don't see power-pop as a populist form, actually, which when you think about it is strange since the whole thing does kind of derive from the attempt to keep the Beatles alive, who were the most popular group ever (at least of their time).

That's a good comment about the first dB's album, "fucking with my head." That album is insidious in the best possible way, formalism gone nuts.

if you knew me well enough, "fucking with my head" is how i describe pretty much every record i love.

but yes, it is insidious! i remember the first time i heard "black and white" i didnt think much of it and then out of nowhere, i found myself singing it at the most random moments.

I forgot Nick Lowe's "Labour of Lust," which is pretty classic power-pop. "Cruel to Be Kind" is such a great single, and insidious...I mean, what is that weird sound that recurs in that song?

And yeah, Maria, I am pretty much enamored of the insidious...I don't know how much more insidious you can get than "Tearjerkin'" or "Cycles Per Second" or "Espionage" off that first dB's album. I need something offputting in pop a lot of the time; I've always had a blind spot when it comes to straightforward, rocking stuff...I find the Beach Boys insidious, and the Byrds and Love and the Zombies too, they're my favorite '60s groups.

Thursday, Dec. 6, the dB's will be special guests of Yo La Tengo, whose annual Hannukah shows at Maxwell's in Hoboken, NJ, have become an institution. They are $30 benefit shows, on sale now, and likely to sell out.

I yield to no one in my love for the dB's. But as far as power-pop in the 80s (and 90s), all must bow before the mighty Green.

And damn, looks like I'll have to snap up a YLT ticket.

Wasn't Gene Holder in Yo La Tengo? Damn, this is definitely one of those shows I wish I could attend. (It's also my birthday.)

Like This has now been reissued and is pretty damn cheap now.

I saw Stamey playing bass for Yo La Tengo in late 1985.

They're also at Southpaw in Dec. The show they did at Bowery Ballroom earlier this year was fun, but Holsapple has lost range in his voice. Or more charitably, was not having a great night vocally.

That's the Green that usta have Rudy Giuliani's ghostwriter playing bass in the '80s, right Sara?

I saw the dB's once in the '80s (post-Stamey) and once since (first reunion w/ Stamey?).

That's the Green that usta have Rudy Giuliani's ghostwriter playing bass in the '80s, right Sara?

The very same. Ken Kurson was the bassist/ghostwriter. He also had a brief career co-leading the Lilacs (2 singles and 1 LP).

i went to a Built to Spill show with Ken.

SEARCH: "I Thought You Wanted To Know."

Right up there with "Another Girl, Another Planet" if you ask me.

"Black and White" puts a shiver up my spine everytime I hear it. That guitar hook and the way Rigby pounds around it. Mindbending!

SEARCH: "I Thought You Wanted To Know."

The B side of this is a killer too...

more like Stands for Douchebags amirite

'moving in your sleep' is the most romantic song i know

heard "From A Window to a Screen" for the first time in a long time this morning. ah, the sound of being 26...

First two albums twofer is as classic as they come, merely good with some great moments thereafter.

years ago, i covered the entire "repercussion" album out of boredom. gotta go find that...

First two albums twofer is as classic as they come, merely good with some great moments thereafter.

xpost: this is a false opinion! (sorry,i'm kidding) But, Like This is bloody brilliant. "Spy in the house of Love" is one of the best songs from the 1980's that most people don't know, IMO

i have a bootleg somewhere with mainly holsapple demos recorded in the run-up to "like this". it was pretty good, much better than the finished product imho.

that sounds cool. why you no like like this, though? is it the 80's production values?

it's ok i guess, but i really like the stamey/holesapple combo. without stamey, it all sounds a bit..samey. see what i did there?

I take it back: Like This is fantastic really, just not quite on a par with the previous two. 'The Sound Of Music' is OK but pretty ordinary.

I just realised the drumming on stands for decibels is the best drumming ever.

it is pretty great, yeah

The version of "Spy in the House of Love" on Ride the Wild Tom Tom is worth seeking out, I think it's my favourite dB's song alongside "Moving in Your Sleep". Why didn't Holsapple write another twenty like those?

I just realised they put out a single for record store day ("Picture Sleeve") and that they've got an album in the works. the single is a Chris Stamey gem and the drummer does the b-side which is also nice.

I listened "A Spy in the House of Love" last night.

I posted a fantastic Chris Stamey anthology on the sadly misspelled solo Stamey thread:
Summer Sun-Crhis Stamey solo

ah! I would love a copy if it's something you've burned.
I would add I Feel Good (Today)!

this request feels very late 90's, but i'm just going to embrace it: does anyone know where i can find tab/chords for "Neverland"? i love it so much, but never bothered looking up the video til recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfpli2VQtZU

apparently that footage was "lost" until 2008! i love how straightforwardly it captures them. there are some sort of goofy moments, but it also captures them accurately playing along to the song and being into it at all the right moments. they look like people who are really enjoying what they know to be a good thing, it's wonderful to watch. but yeah if anyone has a tab hmu

no joke, my biggest hope for the future is that maybe some day things will be so infinitely abundant and generous that every single new song has a performance captured so naturally, and that it appears as the little "preview" video in your mac finder window for the song.

i guess my more realistic assessment of the future is that not many songs deserve to be held up to our eyes for so long

Here's a top ten.

Cool list. I'd add one more, though maybe I'm biased by the fact that it lives up to the story behind it, which is certainly not always the case. Here's what I said in Nashville Scene ballot comments on 2012 releases:

The dB's--"She Won't Drive In The Rain Anymore": Very good contemporary country jangle-ballad, one of the highlights on a very good reunion album (aren't many of those). The true story, as told by Holsapple to http://dbs-repercussion.blogspot.com:
"It's about my wife evacuating New Orleans during Katrina. I was on the road with Hootie [and the Blowfish]; my wife had taken my daughter and my baby son and my daughter's best friend on a train to Birmingham to buy a vehicle up there. She knew the hurricane was coming, and she did all the things you're supposed to do. We didn't think too much about it — we certainly didn't realize it was going to be a 100-year storm. But when she got to Birmingham to get the car, it was very evident there was no turning back, so she drove literally across the storm path to get to her grandmother's in Little Rock."
Peter goes on to explain the reunion theme in the lyrics. He says his wife "took a day to re-group and then started driving back and she dropped my daughter's best friend off with her mom in Memphis. And then [my wife took] Miranda, my daughter with Susan Cowsill, to where Susan and her husband were living at the time. Then she made a beeline to where Hootie was playing next, which was Baltimore. She got there 15 minutes before we went on. It had been this incredible, tortuous time, unable to get in touch with anybody. Meanwhile, I'm in this sort of suspended state of touring because I need the money, and I can't really stop. Where am I gonna go, what am I gonna do? When I saw her, it was the first time in weeks, she and my son pulled up and I was overjoyed just to get to see her. We didn't really talk very much because we didn't really know what to say; it was all just so overwhelming."
Turns out Holsapple wrote it w Kristian Bush of Sugarland, so maybe they'll do it too (or does Sugarland work that way).

the two best pp acts had the two best drummers, Jody Stephens and Will Rigby. Yeah, and Bill Berry was crucial right off, on "Radio Free Europe" and all the best R.E.M. tracks. Rigby did a good album of his own, and was fine w Steve Earle & The Dukes too.

Your list is 75% Holsapple songs, mine would probably be 75% Stamey. Funny that "She's Not Worried" was one of your three Stamey songs, as I think he ruins the (pretty difficult) melody with a whiny, out-of-tune vocal; he'd become a much better singer soon. I agree with your three picks from Like This; I haven't heard the two subsequent LPs but recommend Fireworks and some of Mavericks.
I truly love "From A Window to a Screen" and "Ups and Downs" as two of the best-crafted songs of the 80s, but I'm enough of a fan that I read Stamey's excellent book.

I'll have to give Like This another listen. I've always been more of a Stamey fan too -- I feel like his songs really took advantage of the amazing rhythm section (thinking "Cycles Per Second," "In Spain," etc.) in a way that Holsapple's generally didn't -- but a Holsapple/Rigby/Holder album that came out not too long after Repercussion really deserves another chance from me.

Looooove "From a Window to a Screen." My Stamey preference also has a lot to do with his vocals, which immediately reminded me of Scott Miller. Both of their voices just sound really *cool* to me.

Related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8bBuPwfST4

My top tunes would be all be from the first 2 LPs: Black & White, She's Not Worried, Bad Reputation, Moving in Your Sleep, Happenstance, From A Window to a Screen, Ups & Downs, Neverland, Amplifier, and I Feel Good. Bought Like This when it came out and I never really got into it.

I saw the Loud Family on that tour, although the cover the night I saw them was "The Story in Your Eyes" by The Moody Blues. I agree that I like both their voices (especially after their earliest records) and never understood why Miller, in particular, was regarded as having an uncommercial or unlikeable singing voice.

The Stamey book goes into a lot of musical detail that I'd never pick up on my own. For instance, the piano countermelody in the second verse of "From a Window" is taken from Charles Ives, referring to the line "Ives was on the stereo".

Ah, was never sure what that "Ives" lyrics was about! Jealous that you got to see the Loud Family on that tour. I wasn't aware of them until the following year.

Apparently, Holsapple & Stamey released an album of re-recorded acoustic versions of dB's classics last year called "Our Back Pages". Looks like it's digital only at the moment.

amazing rhythm section Yeah, Holder's really good too, and he produced Aquamaine and Fields for the Individuals, both later on a CD w bonus tracks, reissued by BarNone, which Individuals' leader Glenn Morrow took over after the band broke up---he was also managing editor of New York Rocker, led Rage To Live and, much more recently, Cry For Help, neither of which I've heard, but the Individuals were real good, "power pop" or "proto jangle" or whatever you wanna call it--they were frequently cited along w dB's and Bongos as The Hoboken 3 or Pop 3---and def rec to dB's etc fans---maybe not up to dB's consistency of songwriting, but some of their known live combo power comes through in the studio, and I always listen for Janet Wygal's vocal boosts.

Janet Wygal and her brother Doug went on to form The Wygals, and Janet Wygal later formed the group Splendora, which provided the theme music for MTV's show Daria. After The Wygals split up, Doug played on albums by Wanda Jackson, Laura Cantrell, Amy Rigby, Wreckless Eric and others. Yes, thanks wiki. Splendidly named Jon Light Klages was also an Individual, don't know what he did later.

No mention of this yet? I guess most of this stuff was already on Ride the Wild Tom-Tom, but I've never heard that so a lot of it's new to me. A good bit of it is Stamey songs that sound kind of like the least interesting Stamey song on Stands for Decibels (i.e. "I'm in Love"), but, you know, that's still pretty good! "You Got It Wrong" has been stuck in my head all morning.

It seems "I Thought You Wanted To Know" and "If And When" are not the original versions on Ork Records?

I think they are but "I Thought You Wanted to Know" has been slightly remixed, at least.

Mark Caro did some podcast interviews with Peter Holsapple and Chris Stamey. Holsapple's is two hours and broken up into two separate podcasts:

https://www.caropop.com/caropopcast/episode/299b4741/peter-holsapple-pt-1
https://www.caropop.com/caropopcast/episode/26268249/peter-holsapple-pt-2

https://www.caropop.com/caropopcast/episode/39fa4bc8/chris-stamey

Found this too, a guest column from 2008 dissecting how Like This flopped (a great album IMHO) - wish the NY Times would bring back this series.

https://archive.nytimes.com/opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/anatomy-of-a-flop/

^good read, thanks for the link

Yes, great stuff, thanks!

Holsapple wrote a similar article which was published in some sort of music anthology, more of a post-mortem of his entire career. He included the anecdote about dancing in the control room, thinking he had written a hit record, but also mentioned such issues as their first two albums not being distributed in the States.
Unfortunately, I gave the song another listen just now, and i was interesting to pick up on the details he wrote about, but I really can't see the song, whoever was singing it, as better than "quite good".

Great piece! Glad he got Butler in there too.

Put these on wrong thread, wrong board, even:
Wow, so Bearsville folded in 1984, same year Like This was "released," two years before Albert died. I remember reading that Dylan supposedly called Sally G. soon after and yelled about what Albert still owed him. She was on the cover of Bringing It All Back Home and in Don't Look Back and saw about the catalog until 2010, according to wiki; as of the wiki posting, Ehino is or was the distributor.

― dow, Friday, July 15, 2022 4:20 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Rhino! Think I'll see what Bearsville product is readily available.

― dow, Friday, July 15, 2022 4:22 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Sorry, she was running it *from* 2010!

Bearsville Records was founded in 1970 by Albert Grossman. Artists included Todd Rundgren, Elizabeth Barraclough, Foghat, Halfnelson/Sparks, Bobby Charles, Randy VanWarmer, Paul Butterfield's Better Days, Lazarus, Jesse Winchester, and NRBQ. The label closed in 1984, two years before Grossman's death. Sally Grossman, Albert Grossman’s widow, was running Bearsville Records from 2010 until her death in March 2021, at the age of 81.[1]
Bearsville's initial distributor was Ampex Records. From 1972 until its folding, the label was distributed by Warner Bros. Records in most countries. In the UK it was distributed by Warner until 1979, and then Island until 1981; its last few British releases were licensed to independent labels Avatar and Lamborghini. Rhino Records currently distributes the Bearsville catalog.

Many of the artists on the roster recorded at Grossman's Bearsville Studios.

also Notable Artists, discography etc---warning says roster unverified, but I've seen some of the records, have a few:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearsville_Records

I've always been interested in the circumstances behind his departure from R.E.M. - it's evidently difficult for him to discuss, but I noticed he didn't state exactly how his request for a credit on 'Low' saw him leave the band.

I’ve always favored the first 2 dB’s albums over Like This. Pretty sure I bought them as a two-for sometime in the mid 80s.

xp it's possible it was an awkward situation where even he wasn't clear on every single detail of how it went down. Think about Lindsey Buckingham's recent departure from Fleetwood Mac - it was clearly one person's demand, but it's not like the others were all that communicative with Buckingham when it went down, even with their long history together. The best was a private "sorry it happened that way, I didn't want this to happen and wish I could do something" from Christine who was probably on the best terms with him. It happens in every profession, unfortunately, but at least Holsapple was able to restore his friendships with Mills and Buck (and maybe the other two) down the road, and not so late that there was barely any time to experience that renewed friendship again.

Re: the dB's albums, I love the debut the most, but I love the second and third albums too - I don't want to knock any of them to elevate the others. I'll have to revisit the fourth and fifth albums some day, I didn't think they were as good as the previous three, but I could find more to like about them now.

So---the dB's were a little older, prob setting an example (incl. what not to do, esp. biz snares to avoid), inspirational, even, in terms of artistic development in a direction of shared interest---plus they're from NC, not that far from Athens, there are connections vis Mitch Easter and so on: Holsapple, more than other sometyme R.E.M support players, was likely an imposing figure, without meaning to be pushy---earnest and articulate, so maybe the suggestion the more off-putting for its plausibility, the chords etc. voiced in a way unforeseen by writer(s)---some others of the inner four maybe saying, "hey that sounds..." maybe not wanting to quite say "better," or maybe insisting on it---
And maybe we get towards other musical insecurities, like Lou Reed in the face of Cale or Quine (also Fernando Saunders said that, after his "New Age" solo was mentioned in concert reviews, Lou took it away). David Lee Roth assembling one of the flashiest bands ever for his first solo album and tour, then acting all threatened----could to a whole thread about that kind of thing, maybe---

May have to put this on more than one thread, considering range of guests:

The Salt Collective, 'LIFE' produced by the dB's Chris Stamey

The Salt Collective releases the power pop supergroup's beautiful mystery LIFE on May 5, 2023

An immensely collaborative new album has miraculously brought together an international "supergroup” joining SALT and their guests Matthew Caws (Nada Surf), Matthew Sweet, Juliana Hatfield, Richard Lloyd (Television), Anton Barbeau, Susan Cowsill (Cowsills), Mitch Easter, Matt Douglas (Mountain Goats), Chris Stamey, Peter Holsapple, Gene Holder and Will Rigby (the dB's).

This new album is produced by Chris Stamey (the dB's) and recorded at Fidelitorium (Kernersville, NC), Ferber Studios (Paris), and Modern Recording (Chapel Hill, NC), as well as at artisan studios.

SALT is a Paris-based collaborative music project led by French guitarist and songwriter Stéphane Schück around a core group formed in the 80s with Benoit Lautridou (drums) and Fred Quentin (bass), SALT offers shivering songs based on transcendently melodic guitars and vocals.

NEW TODAY TO SHARE - Video of "Asylum" (featuring Matthew Caws of Nada Surf and Juliana Hatfield)

Of the immensely creative ambitious follow up, maverick maximum pop recording maven and artist Chris Stamey says, “In the midst of chaos, upheaval, and uncertainty, the impulse to make art remains strong. Matthew Caws sings of having “found asylum [on] this hillside,” and in many ways this recording project became a similar place of sanctuary for an extended musical family during a time when we didn’t know what new calamity the next day might bring. Life persists, hope remains. Always, it was helmed and inspired by the ceaseless optimism of Stéphane Schück, who shepherded and cheered each stage of its circuitous evolution.”

www.xopublicity.com

PORTLAND / DETROIT / SEATTLE / LOS ANGELES

@xopublicity (twitter, instagram, snapchat)

Peter Holsapple and Chris Stamey are playing a show in March for Trouser Press's 50th anniversary:

https://www.ticketweb.com/event/peter-holsapple-and-chris-stamey-the-bowery-electric-tickets/13456803