Pitchfork: The Top 200 Tracks of the 1990s: 20-01

i voted shadow.

Whoops. I can only apologize for the sensitivities I've discombobulated with what I thought was quite clearly a joke.

Am I really the only person who prefers Hypnotize to Juicy?

no

And I should say I really like Kate as a poster here, I like the way she sets her stall out now matter how anti-canonical the stuff she has to say it's always well thought out and she's never looking round nervously to see if anyone else agrees with her or not. I'm not surprised that she comes across as slightly embattled sometimes the amount of yapping tools she gets on her back.

But I still think hers is a pretty clear misreading of Common People.

No one else think that Beers, Steers and Queers (remix) should be at number one?

just gave gold soundz a relistening....and much as i love pavement, this was the pinnacle of the entire decade? a sloppy, self referential song? it innovates in fucking nothing. i suspect a rewrite, a la the greatest albums of the 90's list.

Thanks, I appreciate that, Doran.

But I think it's a bit ironic to call my personal response to a song "a pretty clear misreading" when you haven't even grasped what I think about it accurately enough to lampoon it. <- this was my issue with what you wrote, not whether it was a "horribly formed" "joke" or not.

Say It Ain't So is fine and all, but top 20 of the decade, really?

xp: I understand what your gripe with the song is clear enough - I'm just calling it as a misreading.

You seem to have some kind of issue with something that's happened in your personal life, which in turn suggests that the way that the song rankles with you means the song writing is actually pretty good if it's having these effects of recognition and projection. Cocker is talking specifically about an incident, apart from at the end when he has a broader point to make. And I think your confusion on the terms of cash (told me that her dad was loaded/poor as a church mouse) suggest that you're mixing up something from your own experience with the 'message' of the song (if there is much of one at all...)

"I will never *really* know what it's like not to have an expensive education. "

They met at St Martin's College. They are educationally identical. It would be like a Billy Childish character meeting a M.I.A. character. This has nothing to do with the education system.

"(that one can actually have education and breeding and still be as poor as a church mouse) this does *not* mean that I do not know what it means to live with lack or poverty or difficult choices or narrowed horizons."

If you called your dad he could stop it all.

Breeding?!

"You're right. I will *never* live like "Common people" and, in fact, I absolutely *refuse* to live "like common people" because I refuse to see it as something negative to aspire towards the extraordinary, the sublime, thegoodthebeautifulthetrue. "

Common people should, to be fair, be in quotes on the lyric sheet. The girl from Greece wants to live like common people. Cocker is just answering her statement. You are using common people here to mean people with no imagination and no drive. That is not how the word is being used in the song.

Suede were my favourite britpop band because they were aspirational. Living in the gutters looking at the stars. Sleeping on a bare mattress saving up for the one night of the week when you can strut it like a film star. Blur were the worst because they were downwardly mobile. I don't want some dick who's got a double first from Oxford geezering me around the park going on about pigeon racing. Pulp were observational and everything they said was a lot less militant and a lot more subtle. Whoever (Dorian?) said about Mis-shapes has got it spot on - if you're looking for a message from Pulp that year then you need to listen to Different Class as a whole - it tells a remarkably different story to the one you're giving.

"negative anti-cultural-Thatcherism"

Wrong. The only remotely Thatcherite person in this song is the girl from Greece or her dad. Everyone else - bar Cocker, it should be mentioned - is disenfranchised. Cocker is a freeloading observer, as he clearly makes out. You hear vindictiveness in Cocker's voice where I can only hear warning.

Warning: Everyone hates a tourist. Warning: Like a dog lying in the corner...

As for Neutral Milk Hotel, still haven't heard'em, don't remember'em at all at the time. Were their tapes passed around in college dorms or something? Were they played on college radio?

― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, September 3, 2010 7:36 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

alf did you seriously forget on one of your own threads like a month ago when i pointed out the CMJ chart that listed NMH as one of the top 10 most played albums on college radio in '98? Billboard Modern Rock Hits - 1998

While calling me out for projecting mine own personal experiences onto the song (which I have admitted AGAIN AND AGAIN that I am) - you are projecting equally strongly about who you think I am and what my experiences might be.

I'm sorry, but that does not make for a conversation.

You are using common people here to mean people with no imagination and no drive. That is not how the word is being used in the song.

I am responding, directly, to words used in the song, Describing that "common people" "drink and dance and screw, because there's nothing else to do" <-if that's not description of having no imagination and no drive I don't know what is. Jarvis's words, not mine. This assessment, I am rejecting. This definition of "common" I refuse, point blank, to live.

Now you can just go and argue with your own class prejudices some more because we're not talking to each other, we're taking to sets of assumptions that come from very different lives.

And this really is the last I'm going to say on this thread because I'm sure people would prefer more carping about Pitchfork when THERE ARE TWO OTHER WHOLE THREADS ABOUT THIS SONG & ALBUM.

Hey working class dudes, shall we play pool and listen to Northern Uproar? Where are you going 'Geezers'? Come back and talk about ferret racing with me. I've brought a flask of Tetley's mild with me...

Was kinda horrified to read that Damon Albarn had an Oxford double-first, feel very relieved now I've checked and found it's not true.

(Horrified in an I've been getting this band wrong way obviously, not a how dare he one!)

I am responding, directly, to words used in the song, Describing that "common people" "drink and dance and screw, because there's nothing else to do" <-if that's not description of having no imagination and no drive I don't know what is

Then you don't know what is. Lots of people have imagination and drive but have not only no resources, but no means of leveraging the scarce things they do have, and no way of even learning how to leverage then. Or perhaps no opportunities to because other responsibilities supercede them. At least in the US, there's an urban/rural aspect here which goes beyond class that I don't even think you've considered.

Describing that "common people" "drink and dance and screw, because there's nothing else to do" <-if that's not description of having no imagination and no drive I don't know what is

No, no, no. How can you write this? The point of the bitterness is 'how it feels to live your life with no meaning or control' and watching it slide out of view - because it's all in the hands of people with art school and money and dads who would stop it all. And who can't see it, even when faced with somebody who's done all they can to clamber out of that trap. Calling it lack of drive is pretty ironic when you're the one who suggested that bringing in more heiresses might ameliorate things.

"It doesn't matter that you don't have money or prospects or control over your life! As long as you can color your hair purple and play a guitar or paint, you'll never be common!"

This has become almost comical at this point, the total mutual lack of understanding going on at this point.

Just carry on putting words in my mouth. I'm not even going to bother trying to contradict you any more. Just make up whatever shit you feel like and attribute it to me. Because I really give up on trying to get you to understand what I think and it doesn't seem to make a difference what I actually post.

Enjoy.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand cut

Disappointed at Lex's take on Pulp. I hated britpop with a passion at the time and think it was the worst thing to happen in living memory in British music. But then there was all the more reason to cherish the few good 'indie' bands that were round at the time. Pulp were certainly one of them. Have very happy memories of spending two years going to the Blue Note, Turnmills, The Albany, Bar Rhumba, Dog Star, The End when I first moved to London... but listening to Mogwai, Pulp and Suede as much as possible as well. There was no way I was going to hang out in some pub that smelled of piss in Camden, wearing braces, cultivating a cockney accent and pretending to like The Faces and Sleeper. But Pulp were clearly a cut above Oasis. It seems senseless to lump them together.

Gravel: I was over exaggerating for comic effect but Blur have, partially gone on to show their true colours in Alex James' politics and profession.

I had much more time for Justine Elastica who was posh, rich, well educated and didn't give a fuck. There's nothing wrong with having money per se.

I'd fucking love some.

There's nothing wrong with having money per se.

wait what?

the whole point of 'common people' is that rich people suck

what is the greek chick to do?

obvi not try to enjoy herself among the poor folk, because they're unsmiling, canine types who'll rip you apart if you even try to bro down with them

so i guess just stick to her own?

Or not run round Bermondsey swigging Special Brew shouting 'ee by gum, when does the bear baiting begin?'

yeah honestly the biggest wtf for me on this list was "say it ain't so" getting so high. fine track but wwwwwwwwwwwwwtf. and i fucking hate neutral milk hotel, i heard that album and though it was awful -_-

Buddy Holly has the stench of Windows '95 all over it. Say It Ain't So is a relatively laid back number with more interesting lyrics that featured a video where his mother was doing laundry in the garage and they were playing with a hackey sack in slow motion while wearing a t-shirt with a storm trooper helmet on i really don't know what's so strange about all this to you guys.

I think I like all of these songs except for DJ Shadow, voted 'Fade Into You'

Buddy Holly is a cute song but it almost certainly wasn't even the best song released that week.

Let alone that decade.

yes i am biased b/c many have noticed my fervent fantacism for mbv, but i really truly think almost any song on loveless can be considered one of the greatest achievements of the 90's. pavement could've been a band today.

1. Beck - "Loser"
2. Neutral Milk Hotel - "Holland, 1945"
3. DJ Shadow - "Midnight in a Perfect World"
4. Wu-Tang Clan - "Protect Ya Neck"
5. My Bloody Valentine - "Only Shallow"
6. Pavement - "Gold Soundz"
7. Aphex Twin - "Windowlicker"

OutKast - "Spottieottedopalicious"
The Notorious B.I.G. - "Juicy"
Dr. Dre [ft. Snoop Doggy Dogg] - "Nuthin' But a 'G' Thang"
Daft Punk - "Da Funk"
Aaliyah - "Are You That Somebody?"
Björk - "Hyperballad"
Wu-Tang Clan - "Protect Ya Neck"
Radiohead - "Paranoid Android"
Pulp - "Common People"
Nirvana - "Smells Like Teen Spirit"
Aphex Twin - "Windowlicker"
Weezer - "Say It Ain't So"

^^^like all these

Beck - "Loser"

^^^don't like

don't know the others don't even know what mazzy star is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fF0lRYhhiwI

funny thing about Mazzy Star is they were real shy during live performances, and if the crowd got too loud they'd threaten to end the concert. they had one song the fans dubbed the "shh shh" song because Mazzy Star demanded total quiet during it.

hope sandoval is so cute like that isn't she. i mean if you find corpse-like vocal delivery cute. which i do.

i like the lighting in this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H88g_Eew4PY

Voted for 'Loser'.

probably wouldn't have voted for "Common People", even though it's a great song (and good for karaoke, as someone mentioned way upthread) and I've been replaying Different Class a lot lately... but its ability to set off enormous clusterfuck threads 15 years down the road has to count for something, right?

PS as an American who is 'class-conscious' but doesn't really know about the specifics of the British system, it seems obvious to me that the target is more a certain romantic (young person's?) view of "common people" than, like, every wealthy person in England

read the thread!
in short, for british people who were around then, the context was a big part of the story.

Pavement - "Gold Soundz"
My Bloody Valentine - "Only Shallow"
Neutral Milk Hotel - "Holland, 1945"
The Notorious B.I.G. - "Juicy"
Wu-Tang Clan - "Protect Ya Neck"
Radiohead - "Paranoid Android"
Dr. Dre [ft. Snoop Doggy Dogg] - "Nuthin' But a 'G' Thang"
Weezer - "Say It Ain't So"
Nirvana - "Smells Like Teen Spirit"
Depeche Mode - "Enjoy the Silence"
OutKast - "Spottieottedopalicious"
Pulp - "Common People"

xpost I did read the thread! and like half of the other one. just sayin'.

Who honestly thinks gold soundz is the best song of the 1990s?????

some dudes at pfork. read yr blogs.

xpost I have thought that before, altho not right now (RIP summer)

someone put on protect ya neck at a party i was at friday night and me and a friend switched back n forth verses and rapped the entire thing. having some girl troubles and was feelin really bummed out all night but it cheered me up so much

Anybody else think that "When You Sleep" is twice as nice as "Only Shallow"? What a lazy pick.

it's arbitrary. i probably would have gone with "to here knows when"

Someone else mentioned their tendency to cite a (usually indie) album's first track if there are no famous singles. It's the usual conceit you get in pfk reviews in weird and futile attempts to forge experiential consensus. 'That was the Sebadoh album we had been all been waiting for after the generational trauma of Waco, and it didn't disappoint'. Though I guess every pfk person shares a certain memory of feeling awed the first time they heard the opening chords of Loveless, whether they did or not.

"pfk person"!!

voted 4 the weezer jam cuz its so fukken righteous

"i'm a loser so why don't you kill me?" - OK THEN, happily!

^^ still my favorite moment of this thread

when i read this i srsly snapped my fingers & shouted OWNED! at the screen

"pfk person"!!

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Sunday, 5 September 2010 19:15 (2 minutes ago)

Their writers. The more doctrinaire readers too maybe. No need to be alarmed, they seem harmless enough.

"pfk person"!!

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