Pitchfork: The Top 200 Tracks of the 1990s: 20-01

that one can actually have [an expensive] education and breeding and still be as poor as a church mouse

what quirks of the british class system bring this about? because i mean the song is quite specific: "She told me that her Dad was loaded", "'cos when you're laid in bed at night Watching roaches climb the wall If you called your Dad he could stop it all" , "everybody hates a tourist". i don't know the culture in the flesh and we can never underestimate people's ability to ignore lyrics, but these points are pounded home in the arrangement. if your dad can't stop it all you're not this type of tourist.

You're right. I will *never* live like "Common people" and, in fact, I absolutely *refuse* to live "like common people" because I refuse to see it as something negative to aspire towards the extraordinary, the sublime, thegoodthebeautifulthetrue. This song, for me, really encapsulates this kind of negative anti-cultural-Thatcherism which produces some pretty questionable aesthetic results and political conclusions if taken to the logical conclusion.

this is complicated and i don't want to be presumptuous but isn't this part of what he means when he says "you'll never fail like common people" beyond the financial safety net. i mean the lyric is "You'll never watch your life slide out of view And then dance and drink and screw Because there's nothing else to do". couldn't u be armed by your education and background in a way that makes this refusal more possible, less heroic, than it would be for a "common person". i think this is so.

history mayne: it's a poorly-written song because cocker doesn't actually manage to portray this character as unsympathetic enough

what the song's doing is showing u it may take exactly this much to engender this sort of snarling resentment. that u haven't seen it i wouldn't blame on the songwriting, no offense.

Just because something is "just a fucking pop song" doesn't mean that it can't be *more* than a pop song. In fact, I think some of the more important cultural truths about the society we live in are revealed by the more ephemeral aspects. Hence, it's really important to dig inside pop songs if they stick in your throat in a particular way.

I mean, I hate Common People, but I do agree it should probably be on a list of "important songs of the 90s" because it managed to catch such a zeitgeist.

x-post to jess

it's a fucking pop song

Silly me. A music critic discussing the meaning of a pop song on a messageboard about pop songs. What was I thinking?

all i meant by that is that berating a three-four minute rock song for being "simplistic" is sort of massively missing the point of what it can do. i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything. the compression of the form almost requires reduction.

my beef was merely with using "simplistic" as a criticism.

I'm also trying to imagine how hard this poll would be if it had pitted, say Don't Know What To Tell Ya vs. Polynomial-C or Try Again vs. Cock/Ver10 and watch my head explode.

Surprised it was "Hyperballad" over "All is Full of Love" but I agree completely and xp on the "car parts" line mmmmmmm; it's her launching point from club/dance into thinking-x's pop, head in both spaces.

Is "Sandstorm" the one with Sting and an Algerian dude?

that wasn't me who said that?

the chick is greek so the song's connection to the british class system is sort of indirect; and the narrator/jarvis is not someone whose life is sliding out of view: he is at the prestigious st martin's school of art. the bit about the dog is weird. but it's an undeniable tune and i don't rly mind about all this, 15 years on.

xposts to zvookster

OMG, Jess, you might actually be being stupider than I initially thought. Are you really trying to tell me that a pop song or lyrics or poetry or something is really not capable of *not* being simplistic? That a lyric really can't capture something ambiguous and complex and multifaceted?

Because fuck me, that is *exactly* what I go to poetry and the more ... lyrical of lyrics to *do* for me.

...

oh sorry i see now that was lex! xp to mayne

i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.

I mean, jesus h. christ, yeah, OK, this is why you write for fucking Pitchfork, and this absolutely encapsulates everything about why people around here bitch and moan and complain about said organ.

Time for me to bow out of this conversation now, because this direction of conversation actually *is* going to piss me off.

"Common People"'s lyrics seem amazingly appropriate for what's going on here.

Is "Sandstorm" the one with Sting and an Algerian dude?

― jaymc, Friday, September 3, 2010 11:41 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

thats desert rose dummy

i actually phoned st martins the other week to check that in fact there is no apostrophe there

so i amend my earlier post

well my work here is done

sandstorm is the one that goes "duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh [goes higher] duh duh duh duh duh duh duh [goes lower] duh duh duh duh duh duh duh"

I wonder where this kind of ferocious, articulate working-class voice exists in indie these days. Pulp had it and the Manics had it but the current crop are almost universally privileged - not rich, necessarily, but relatively comfortable. It's a constant in hip hop - it's all over the Tinie Tempah album - but I don't hear many (any?) new indie musicians with years of financial struggle behind them. I'm not saying that it's better to have that - I hate the tired old Alan McGee point-scoring - but there should be somebody voicing that kind of experience and outlook.

i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.
i can't even imagine a rock song that takes a "nuanced" view of anything.

Oh my god, people are having a lively debate about something I MUST STOP THAT RIGHT NOW - you actually make me want to go on talking about this with Lex and Dorian until the lights go down.

this is kind of awesome, i forgot about this

thats desert rose dummy

I know. ;-)

I don't know what "Sandstorm" is, though.

could we take this to the sandstorm thread so i can continue trolling kate

sandstorm is the one that goes "duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh [goes higher] duh duh duh duh duh duh duh [goes lower] duh duh duh duh duh duh duh"

― max, Friday, September 3, 2010 11:45 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Oh, I got it - it's 'Enter Sandstorm' right?

xpost I feel The Streets' first album, which was certainly not indie, but had a massive indie listenership, captures some of this class consciousness you're referencing here. I might be wrong, but I feel lots of people listened to his writing in the same way as Cocker or Strummer or Morrissey in the past, in addition to all the dance culture references on that record.

I wonder where this kind of ferocious, articulate working-class voice exists in indie these days.

new labour and everyone got rich.

the north is all elbow and doves these days.

Skinner=Moz is ©2002 me.

Common People: A lyrical discussion/dissection

you know 'sandstorm' even if you think you don't

it's probably more omnipresent than the beatles

don't much like 'sandstorm', but i guess out of principle big euro-dance floorfillers > weezer

you know 'sandstorm' even if you think you don't

it's probably more omnipresent than the beatles

― ciderpress, Friday, September 3, 2010 4:53 PM (32 seconds ago) Bookmark

yeah -- feels like it's still around in a weird way

srsly though

ould we take this to the sandstorm thread so i can continue trolling kate

― strongohulkingtonsghost, Friday, September 3, 2010 3:48 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

k8 is pretty much worth 100 of you, you utter twit

ah that old black magic

are you having a nice time there, dear?

I think I've said everything about Common People/Pulp that I really need to.

I'm gonna spend the rest of the afternoon listening to Aaliyah and Aphex until my head explodes. And probably end up voting Aphex because I want to eat up his little boolies even though that's one of my least favourite songs of his.

really i'm just bored as shit at work before a holiday weekend

tbh this list is p decent, glad to see the outkast choice, protect ya neck, gold soundz, aaliyah etc.

is this thread huge just because lex read pitchfork again?

another bored office worker being a twat to people on the internet, wouldn't have ever guessed

iirc it's that lex thinks when people like music he doesn't like it's really appalling

sam the irony is i genuinely haven't clicked on the actual list, i've no idea what's on it beyond the 20 in the poll!!

For Pitchfork's worldview it's a great list. Plenty of omissions, inevitably, but I like everything here except Weezer.

lex, you're being just as big a twat

early 90s man. that was our sixties. and we blew it

I love this. Voted for 'G Thang'.

i'm not the one admitting to deliberately trolling someone to make them upset?

not admitting to it, no

because being disingenuous is so much better xpost

even though that's pretty much exactly what you're doing, and you're smart enough and self-aware enough to know that

This thread has turned into Summer Heights High. I approve.

"i'm a loser so why don't you kill me?" - OK THEN, happily!

^^ still my favorite moment of this thread