pretty sure most everyone itt loves both pe and sade
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:23 (thirteen years ago) link
pretty sure most people not 100% behind this record were into her previous 'sade' moments too
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 17:56 (thirteen years ago) link
also pretty sure most people itt who are not 100% into this record are like... 85% into this record
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:18 (thirteen years ago) link
65%-75% with reservations
― titchy (titchyschneiderMk2), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:25 (thirteen years ago) link
I'm definitely more into this record after having just endured a wobbly tenor sing "Master Blaster" at the karaoke event next door.
― Gucci Mane hermeneuticist (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:29 (thirteen years ago) link
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:23 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
and most like both records. i think there are difft value systems at work in preferring one over the other
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:32 (thirteen years ago) link
sure. but why is one inherently more valid than the other?
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:37 (thirteen years ago) link
theyre not. id say that one is a lil more critic friendly, tho
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:38 (thirteen years ago) link
which matters why?
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:40 (thirteen years ago) link
bcuz it impacts how ppl talk about the relative values they bring to bear on each record & it helps to interrogate not just what ppl think but why they think that way
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:43 (thirteen years ago) link
i completely disagree that any preference between these two particular albums is "ideological" - i know where deej is coming from w/r/t the value systems at play, but there are plenty of other reasons to prefer one over the other.
i think they complement each other just about perfectly, as they're meant to.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:44 (thirteen years ago) link
nah i mean basically all judgments are results of value systems. or are your tastes entirely random? might explain some things
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:46 (thirteen years ago) link
nah i mean basically all judgments are results of value systems
only if you apply the same value systems to all judgments you make. it doesn't follow that preferring the "political"/experimental side of the new amerykah albums over the "personal"/familiar one that you necessarily privilege political and experimental art over personal and familiar art, because those things aren't ever good or bad in themselves, they're just neutral descriptions.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 18:58 (thirteen years ago) link
only if you apply the same value systems to all judgments you make.
theres no way out of this dude
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:04 (thirteen years ago) link
lex otm
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:04 (thirteen years ago) link
it doesn't follow that preferring the "political"/experimental side of the new amerykah albums over the "personal"/familiar one that you necessarily privilege political and experimental art over personal and familiar art, because those things aren't ever good or bad in themselves, they're just neutral descriptions.obv this is true tho -- that doesnt mean that the recognition that these are in fact value systems interacting shouldn't be a part of the discussion
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:05 (thirteen years ago) link
deej, are your reactions to art always consistent? cause if so that makes you quite unique among human beings.
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:06 (thirteen years ago) link
how on earth is that what im talking about
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:06 (thirteen years ago) link
i dont even understand what the question means -- my 'reactions' to 'art' 'consistent'? they are consistently mine certainly, & the values we bring to bear are our own only -- im just talking about the act of openly acknowledging those values
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:07 (thirteen years ago) link
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:04 PM Suggest Ban PermalinkBookmark
????
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:08 (thirteen years ago) link
i would say a better example of a preference based on "ideology" would be someone who doesn't particular rate or pay attention to any badu album except pt1 - someone who wasn't interested in her until she made a political record, say, and who's disappointed that pt2 isn't as ~experimental~ or whatever. which i don't think anyone here is.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:10 (thirteen years ago) link
of course there are different value systems at play, but there is very little, if any, music within pt. 1's system that i prefer to it, whereas there is a fair amount within pt. 2's system that i do prefer. that doesn't mean i inherently prefer one value system to the other, even if i think this whole line of argument is more or less bunk.
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:12 (thirteen years ago) link
you cant help but apply your own values to every critical argument you make. how do you apply someone elses?
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:12 (thirteen years ago) link
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:12 PM (27 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
youre not understanding 'value system' -- thats the broad biases/opinions/values/morals that the critic brings to bear; the piece of art has no 'value system' of its own, just what we bring to it
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:13 (thirteen years ago) link
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:12 PM Suggest Ban PermalinkBookmark
whoever said anything about that?
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:13 (thirteen years ago) link
"only if you apply the same value systems to all judgments you make."
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:17 (thirteen years ago) link
from a critics perspective what values are their other than your own
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:18 (thirteen years ago) link
you can hold different (and inconsistent) values yourself, which is what i assume lex meant by that
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:19 (thirteen years ago) link
not if yr trying to make a convincing argument; if u hold two opposing ideas that in order to convince anyone u have to come up with an explanation for why one system works in one situation and another doesnt
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:20 (thirteen years ago) link
especially in a case like this, when the two value systems aren't even opposed to each other or mutually exclusive
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:20 (thirteen years ago) link
your assuming im making some argument im not if there as a 'situation like this'
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:22 (thirteen years ago) link
i never claimed there was something wrong with liking pt. 1 yeesh
apparently you will only be happy if i admit i always prefer political/difficult music to that which does not fit those descriptions but it might ~blow your mind~ to find out i prefer nina sky to rage against the machine or hell, even al green to sly stone
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:23 (thirteen years ago) link
all i said is that i think its worthwhile for discussion to observe the kinds of critical biases that work to elevate part 1 at the expense of part 2, its not at all about questioning the lex's RIGHT AND TRUE reasons for preferring pt 1 that evade typical ITS AN AGGRESSIVE DIFFICULT POLITICAL RECORD media hype but to observe why critics tend to line up IN GENERAL & IN LARGER NUMBERS on one side rather than the other. i could prefer pt 1 (i dont) & still make this argument
defensive posters are defensive
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:24 (thirteen years ago) link
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:23 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
you're reading so much shit into what im saying that im not actually saying
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:25 (thirteen years ago) link
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 12:24 PM Suggest Ban PermalinkBookmark
good god, deej
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:25 (thirteen years ago) link
dude -- u seriously think im telling you that i think you always prefer 'political / difficult music'?? reread this thread & tell me where i accused you of anything
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:26 (thirteen years ago) link
maybe if you want to have that argument in general, this thread isn't the best place for it? it's a worthwhile topic but i don't think it's going to get anywhere here.
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:27 (thirteen years ago) link
but my point was that in discussing the record i think its an important concept to be aware of
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:28 (thirteen years ago) link
being self-aware of that kind of thing is kind of what ilx is all about at its best
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:29 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm with deej here, i think there are elements of pt 2 that are better executed than on part 1 (melodies, clarity, etc.), but i don't think it's particularly shocking statement to say that the album that's more formally ambitious and artier is going to get more critical attention. and this isn't to say that anyone who likes pt 1 better is wrong or likes it for the wrong reasons.
― emotional radiohead whatever (Jordan), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:34 (thirteen years ago) link
come to think of it, arguing about that as the main point of a thread would be real obnoxious, making it as a contextual argument when discussing a record to which it applies is useful, unless dudes get unneccessarily butthurt abt it
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i will say this, you characterize pt. 2 as more "personal", and while it may or may not be more personal to erykah (i'm sure she poured as much of herself into pt. 1, but being that i'm not erykah badu, i can't exactly say which is more personal to her) but pt. 1 is sure as hell more personal to me, which is to say i more directly identify with it and feel it says more about myself than pretty much any album i've heard
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:35 (thirteen years ago) link
i'm not butthurt, just kind of annoyed
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:36 (thirteen years ago) link
but keep up w/ the ad homs
― king boy swag (The Reverend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:37 (thirteen years ago) link
New board description.
― ilxor has truly been got at and become an ILXor (ilxor), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:38 (thirteen years ago) link
when i called pt2 "personal" - scare quotes intentional as it's totally reductive shorthand - it was more going with erykah's own left brain/right brain distinction between the two
i've actually brought up the inevitability of an album w/pt1's qualities getting more critical praise than an album w/pt2's qualities elsewhere on ilx, but i think a more appropriate comparison might be between pt 1 and mama's gun, which i think of as a monumental work on or near pt1's level, but which got a fraction of the critical luv.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:39 (thirteen years ago) link
but i think a more appropriate comparison might be between pt 1 and mama's gun, which i think of as a monumental work on or near pt1's level, but which got a fraction of the critical luv.
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, August 25, 2010 2:39 PM (35 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
thats just not accurate
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:40 (thirteen years ago) link
callin u butthurt is not ad hom, im not tying yr butthurt state to the quality of your argument
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:41 (thirteen years ago) link
& i havent had any arguments about REV at all itt! thats the problem w your argument, it seems to be assuming im saying all this personal stuff that im not.
― NOT FUNNY NEEDS MORE GUCCI (deej), Wednesday, 25 August 2010 19:42 (thirteen years ago) link