White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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Like I said, I wouldn't personally let my kid do this but I don't think it's remotely comparable to things you are comparing it to! It's just a buncha dumbasses, the kid just wanted to dress like his hero and his parents didn't care enough/know enough to suggest something else. I think that comparing it to the things you are comparing it to is the same thing as like when Orbit goes off and accuses everyone on ILX of being sexist cos Spencer thinks Paris Hilton is hot or whatever the hell she goes on about. Seriously. We all think it was not the best move. But we also realize why the kid would want to do it. For all anyone knows his parents don't even know he did it, to be totally honest (I mean to be honest Andy doesn't seem to indicate how old these kids were).

And I mean if they didn't "black up" but kept on the synthetic afros to signify Ben Wallace, is that ok? Cos Andy is saying it isn't. I mean is it just not ok for them to be Ben Wallace for Halloween, or is it just the blackface?

xpost, I guess not. Why is THAT bad? I've seen white dudes with actual 'fros, you know.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:35 (eighteen years ago) link

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/images/he/photo/tv_pix/nbc/saturday_night_live_episode_photos/_group_photos/billy_crystal3.jpg

― when something smacks of something (dave225.3), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:35 (eighteen years ago) link

"realizing the specifics of the situation."

Huh?

that its an 8 year old most likely emulating someone he admires rather than a frat kid at "pimps and hos night" or Al Jolson in The Jazz Singer

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:36 (eighteen years ago) link

can somebody just post icy hot stuntaz now and get it over with?? this is like the lord custos logistical beatdown pt iiivx

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:36 (eighteen years ago) link

haha, every time someone posts 'i wouldn't let my kid do this' or similar i momentarily think WTF WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:37 (eighteen years ago) link

i dont blame the kid for that any more than i blame 5 year olds on the bus screaming 'fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck' at the top of their lungs, its the parents responsibility
-- _ (...), November 1st, 2005 4:35 PM. (later) (link)

I'd blame rock music for that, personally.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:39 (eighteen years ago) link

i wish nitsuh or somebody would just come here and restate my argument in big paragraphs so people could finally start listening

This is probably the most ostentatiously offensive thing written on this thread so far. Good job!

― Dan (I Won't Play Your Field Nigger, Either) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:41 (eighteen years ago) link

so if everybody agrees this is more a case of parents needing to school a kid as to why blackface gets people upset, what's being debated here? whether or not we should call it "inexcusable"? whether one poster is being pious or the rest of us aren't being pious enough?

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:42 (eighteen years ago) link

so wait nobody actually disagrees with me yall just thought i was overreacting to white kids in afro wigs and blackface, on a messageboard where 90% of the threads are about wanting to kill your co-workers for misusing the word "literally" and people who have the wrong number of groceries at the 15-items-or-less checkout line

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Quite frankly, if you want to start playing the "white people can't say 'nigger' when quoting a black person" card, you need to just shut the fuck up because YOU ARE WHITE AND I AM BLACK and ergo you are not allowed to tell me ANYTHING about race by your own stupid, fucked-up logic.

― Dan (PEACE OUT) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan you're bitching out a bunch of people who basically agree with you because we don't agree with the extent that this is troublesome. I mean seriously, what the hell? I think you're overreacting, that this is not "inexcusable" or in any way comparable to any of the things that have been brought up. It's not on the same level, the same spectrum. The blackface is OTT, you're right, I wouldn't have allowed for it myself, but it's not anything beyond a "What the hell? You shouldn't do that." kind of response.

I still wanna know if it's just impossible for a kid to do this at all, minus the blackface. Why would it be bad for a kid to put on a wig and a jersey and be Ben Wallace?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

dan otm. ethan you need an ile break.

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:45 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan, give your peers some respect or fuck off. we're not saying its acceptable, just showing a bit of sympathy for the kid, realizing the specifics of the situation.

well, i don't think i need to point out the irony of this, but what the hell. "give your peers some respect or fuck off"... um, okay... and, to be fair, i thought that

and yeah i dont blame the kid but its the parents job to teach them whats deemed racially insensitive just as it is to teach them all cultural standards.

shows some sympathy to the kid. i think alex's comments that a child deserves to be beaten up are far more offensive than anything else here.

― sfxxx, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:46 (eighteen years ago) link

dan go fuck yourself- i said nitsuh because comes in threads and sums up things with big paragraphs, not on some racial shit, you cant pretend i was saying i wanted a black person to agree with me because candice is already posting here

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link

I like how people whine about how no one is responding to their "real points" when they refuse to respond to a direct question stated now about 17 times. :(

haha jess are you his dad?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan if you're overreaction wasn't coupled with "OMG AM I THE ONLY PERSON ON ILE WHO UNDERSTANDS RACISM AND THE WHITE POWER IMBALANCE???" it probably wouldn't have been so insufferable.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:50 (eighteen years ago) link

i wish.

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

is it perfectly inoffensive to say that black people are predisposed to being able to write with big paragraphs?

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

seriously dan you sure are coming with a lot of stupid, petty race-baiting for someone who believes that "we are all people and should be treated the same", especially towards someone you know genuinely likes and (usually) agrees with you

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

dan go fuck yourself- i said nitsuh because comes in threads and sums up things with big paragraphs, not on some racial shit

Yeah, right.

― Dan (Like I Buy That) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:51 (eighteen years ago) link

To be fair, I didn't consider the racial dimension to the Nitsuh mention until you brought it up, Dan.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:53 (eighteen years ago) link

there is the assumption that Nitsuh would agree, as well.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I read it the same way Dan did.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Are the Birmingham Black Barons playing in a new stadium with their cut?

the birmingham black barons became the birmingham barons, and are the AA affiliate of the chicago white sox (famously, you may remember michael jordan getting some at-bats as a baron). their stadium isn't incredibly old, i'm gonna guess it was built in '89 or '90? it's in hoover, tho.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:55 (eighteen years ago) link

i didnt even say just nitsuh i said "nitsuh or somebody" but yeah hes generally considered one of the most, if not THE most, reasonable person on ilx, who explains his arguments very thoroughly without specious logic or ad hominem attacks, and since i think he would agree with me in this case i would really like if him (or "somebody"!! stelfox!! candice!!!) would explain my argument better than i can

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:56 (eighteen years ago) link

do you even have an argument now that you finally got through your head what we were saying all along? aside from that nobody else on ILE gets racism?

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:58 (eighteen years ago) link

ned & dan let me get this straight, its racist to see white kids in black face and think of minstrelsy but not racist to see nitsuh's name and see him as "black" before you do as a logical thinker & explanatory writer????

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 16:59 (eighteen years ago) link

You're a dumbass.

― Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:00 (eighteen years ago) link

ned & dan let me get this straight, its racist to see white kids in black face and think of minstrelsy

i'd like to reaffirm my "show your peers some respect or fuck off" stance.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:01 (eighteen years ago) link

when did i say nobody on ile "gets racism"? i said i cant believe im explaining imbalance of power to people like you and ally, which i cant, but plenty of people on this thread seem to understand and really i know yall do too youre just being assholes and pretending that theres no racist context for blackface and white people doing shit to black people means the same thing as black people doing shit to white people as long as it makes a good halloween costume

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:01 (eighteen years ago) link

miccio thats exactly what dan said upthread

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:02 (eighteen years ago) link

roflmao

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:03 (eighteen years ago) link

really if theres anybody out there who thinks it would be racist to wish for a big 3 paragraph nitsuh post right now to end the thread theyre insane

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link

there's a quicker way to end this thread.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:06 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan I'm going to stop debating with you because you're continually and pathologically warping the positions of other people on this thread, including myself ("pretending that theres no racist context for blackface"? "white people doing shit to black people means the same thing as black people doing shit to white people as long as it makes a good halloween costume"? wtf?). the self-pity inherent in your nitsuh comment only makes this more annoying.

and I'd appreciate a cut'n'paste of dan's comment that thinking of minstresly when seeing a kid in blackface is racist, as I can't seem to find it.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:07 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost "more reading less typing"

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Exactly what does that say about how you view people like Ben Wallace that that was your first reaction to seeing the child? In my mind, this is the racist liberal issue rearing its ugly head again.

-- Dan (Excruciating Back Pain) Perry (djperr...), November 1st, 2005.

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:09 (eighteen years ago) link

[For the record, the kids last night were either wearing shoe polish or something that looked exactly like shoe polish.]

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:10 (eighteen years ago) link

Can we ban ethan?

― jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

so are you agreeing that this kind of projection and generalisation is wrong?

xxpost

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

ok, wait, I found it. I don't think there's anything racist about the concept of minstrelsy coming to mind when encountering blackface. it's a logical mental connection based on American culture.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:11 (eighteen years ago) link

"white people doing shit to black people means the same thing as black people doing shit to white people as long as it makes a good halloween costume"? = Or do white people have to dress as white people, blacks as blacks, men as men, women as women, etc etc etc? I don't see anything wrong with a totally innocent Halloween costume.

"pretending that theres no racist context for blackface" = You haven't explained how a kid dressing up as his favorite athlete is racism in any way, still.

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:12 (eighteen years ago) link

really fuck this alex in nyc said the kids deserve to get beat up, i just said it was offensive!!

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

ethan, why is wearing a wig to go in costume as a person with actual long hair, be it a fro or whatever, a bad thing? Are you saying that it is unacceptable to go in costume as Ben Wallace on all levels?

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:13 (eighteen years ago) link

also livin in athens (most racist spot in GA that dont know its racist) the college guy "pimp" costume went real strong every year, no blackface (usually) but always in that damn afro wig, its gettin hard to remember that before it got neutered by ironic white assholes and vh1 pop culture that growin your nappy hair out was actually a controversial act at one time
-- _ (...), November 1st, 2005.

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

i dont think its automatically racist but i think rich white dudes from all-white frats in "hilarious" afro wigs trivializes what was once a specific political act, in the same way the kill whitie club does

― _, Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:15 (eighteen years ago) link

Alex in NYC believes everyone should be beat up, including people he agrees with, we're totally used to him saying people should be flayed alive at this point!

xpost wearing a freaking miniskirt was a controversial act at one time. Also there are plenty of white people and jewish people with "nappy hair," labelling them as assholes for choosing a hairstyle is a little odd. Please explain to me how someone can go in costume as Ben Wallace without sporting a wig.

― Allyzay knows a little German (allyzay), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:15 (eighteen years ago) link

those equal signs are a little shady, ethan, but everybody's double-backing all over the place and getting seriously testy so I'm going to stop telling you to fuck off. whatever argument here is basically based on semantics and personalities rubbing the wrong way.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Okay, new topic momentarily: I know I might be the crazy one, here, but it seems to me an awful lot of people have NO IDEA what the historical/racial implications of blackface/minstrelsy ARE. There's been some passing reference on-thread to "ignorance" and etc but I would bet that some ridiculously high percentage of the gen pop falls into the Ignorant category.

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:16 (eighteen years ago) link

what about a dylan '66 costume?

― strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 1 November 2005 17:17 (eighteen years ago) link

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