should i give the grateful dead a chance?

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That's weird, mine came with both.

walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:06 (eighteen years ago) link

This thing looks fairly amazing!

Man, I didn't even know about that. Nor did I know a new Dick's Picks was out .... from '71! Man it's so crazy how they crank those suckers out; if you don't check back often you wouldn't even know that like 5 Dicks Picks had come out since you last browsed the site.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, nevermind. I re-read your post and I see what you mean. I'm listening to it now and all of that noodling is turning my brain to noodles.
xpost

walter kranz (walterkranz), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:07 (eighteen years ago) link

god, that '71 disc has some Pigpen composition I've never heard called "Empty Pages". wonder what that's all about. Also, a "Brokedown Palace"!! You can never hear too many "Brokedown Palace"s

Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:10 (eighteen years ago) link

It filled my heart w/ happiness when David Berman mentioned Grayfolded in the Pfork interview. Always been a favorite of mine. For some reason, a lot of GD fans haven't even heard it.

And one Broke-Down Palace I don't like is Will Oldham's cover of it. I was excited to hear that he was doing it, but I wasn't a big fan of the execution, esp. the second half. Oh well.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:21 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm listening to DP 26 right now ... opens with an acoustic "Dupree's"/"Mountains of the Moon" .. oh baby..

Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:23 (eighteen years ago) link

I think I sent this track to like Chaki and Ian before we all got all YSI'd out, but for all my fellow brethren and sistren here's an insane "Cream Puff War" from '67 -- nine minutes of amphetamine-fueled Jerry blowing his brains out, total punk rock--

http://s57.yousendit.com/d.php?id=1H1UAEBDB90GCBSMTALVHSLK4

Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:36 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm surprised that Dick's Picks hasn't released anything from the Acid Tests, from '65. I guess the sound quality would be horrendous, but whatev.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:39 (eighteen years ago) link

One of my favorite things about the Grateful Dead was from this old Richard Meltzer piece where he was talking about having had a conversation with Jerry Garcia. Somehow, they got on the subject of guitar strings and Garcia says to him, "Some people really have the string trip together."

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 05:58 (eighteen years ago) link

I'll try to fish out their list and post it on here so you can find some good ones.

that would be great, thanks suzy.

amon (eman), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 11:09 (eighteen years ago) link

Sure thing, amon. I've got a busy day today, but when everything calms down, i'll track down the list and post it here. They tried to give each era its due, but giving special attention to the special periods (ie late 70s)

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 13:16 (eighteen years ago) link

but his voice can never be trusted.
But can his bass playing be trusted?

k/l (Ken L), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 13:21 (eighteen years ago) link

But of course! I don't think he'd ever played bass before he joined GD (was more intereested in the carnival aspect of the Acid Tests and probably wanted to check out that scene, I'd suspect), but he had a strong background in AGarde music (w/ Luciano Berio). I think that it took him about 3 years to be a good bassist, and 4-5 more years to unlearn how a bassist plays rock music, and from about '72 on, he had his own particular style. Some of his bass lines still amaze me - he never goes particularly fast (in fact, almost never goes fast), but his lines are so fucking quirky.

OK, the list forthcoming.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Instead of digging for the Top 100 shows, here is a list of the Top 25 shows. A couple have been taken off Archive.org b/c they've been officially released in the in-between time. Ta da:

02/14/68
02/28/69
02/18/71
04/29/71
08/06/71
08/27/72
09/21/72
02/09/73
02/15/73
06/10/73
11/11/73
11/17/73
02/24/74
06/18/74
06/28/74
10/19/74
10/20/74
02/26/77
05/07/77
05/08/77
05/09/77
06/09/77
07/08/78
06/30/85
09/18/87
07/17/89
10/09/89
03/29/90
09/10/90
09/10/91

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Hurting, would you be willing to play in a rhythm section with Phil?

k/l (Ken L), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 19:51 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost - 25 is more than enough. thx again

amon (eman), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 21:25 (eighteen years ago) link

"rhythm" section

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 23:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Some of the two-drummer stuff does really groove though, esp. the studio stuff.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 10 August 2005 23:37 (eighteen years ago) link

1976 = the dead's most underrated year? just been listening to a show from July 17th 1976 in SF, and there's an aboslutely mindblowing comes a time>drums>other one>eyes of the world>other one jam that's as far out as anything from 72 or 77

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 19:57 (eighteen years ago) link

man that top 25 list seems well screwy too - not a single Europe 72 show? the last night at the lyceum might well be my v. fave dead show

Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 20:04 (eighteen years ago) link

it's a list of shows that were up on Archive.org, not an overall list

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 August 2005 22:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah, I think the lack of Euro '72 shows has to do with what GD Corp is gonna release soon (ie they've forced Archive.org to stop sharing them). Honestly, if I'd made that list, there would be a few less '77s and '74s, replaced by some '76s and 90s stuff.

'76 was a strange year, though. Caught between two styles for the most part. Although I know it's from 1975, a lot of '76 stuff reminds me of "One from the Vault" - sounds great but a little cautious.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Thursday, 25 August 2005 00:34 (eighteen years ago) link

One thing I will say, there is nothing else anywhere in music that is remotely like the way Dead fans talk about the Dead. Maybe Bach fanatics.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:19 (eighteen years ago) link

or wine connoisseurs?

amon (eman), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:37 (eighteen years ago) link

nothing else anywhere in music

Actually, it also reminds me of baseball fans.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 25 August 2005 03:41 (eighteen years ago) link

The only people more fanatic are fans of baseball-playing musicians

BEHOLD! NY YANKEE BERNIE WILLIAMS AND ... THE JOURNEY WITHIN!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00009VGX9.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Bernie sLaYz

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Thursday, 25 August 2005 18:38 (eighteen years ago) link

The way people talk about the Dead is a big part of the fun IMO -- books and books with reviews of every show they ever played, all the small details examined to within an inch of their lives. Definitely comparable to baseball stats people.

Mark (MarkR), Thursday, 25 August 2005 18:52 (eighteen years ago) link

I think the difference is quantitative, not qualitative. The reason deadheads can pore over so many details is that there are 30 years of recorded and documented shows to pore over. So yeah, you can talk about endless different versions of eyes of the world or dark star or even me and my uncle. You can talk about trends in setlists and length of shows and when the band changed their positions on stage.

But it's not like Dead fans are MORE rapturous than any other really rabid fans, at least the ones I know (including myself).* I guess baseball is the best analogy. It's not that baseball fans love baseball more than basketball fans love basketball, it's just that there is a lot more data produced in a baseball game for the fan to pore over.

Scott CE (Scott CE), Thursday, 25 August 2005 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link

from David Gans (not particularly eloquent or inventive, but nonetheless ...):

"Grateful Dead concerts are like baseball games: no two are ever alike. The plays are always different, and there's always fresh hope. Sometimes the game's an all-timer even though individual performances are sloppy; sometimes everybody plays great but the team loses anyway.

Some people thrive on yesterday's moments, and aren't too keen on the way the game's played today. Some have only been fans since last year and don't care what happened way back when. You can cherish the great victories and triumphant seasons and chart them across decades, or you can go simply for the enjoyment of tonight and to hell with the standings. Like all the great teams, the Dead have their pennant years and bleak innings, perfect games and whippings, hits and foul balls, heroes and goats.

To many they're an institution, to some mere child's play, and to others the Grateful Dead is more or less an indispensable part of life. There are those who say the game's too slow, that the brief moments of action and excitement are too few and far between. Like "America's Favorite Pastime," the Dead are both celebrated and criticized, and some people will never see what's to enjoy.

Like big-league fans, Deadheads are as varied as the game is long. There are scorekeepers who record every detail for statistical analysis and a place in the Hall of Fame; camera buffs and video freaks; armchair umpires, die-hards, groupies. Some are bleacher bums who'd be in the stands no matter who was playing; and there are even spousal fans who go because if they didn't, they'd be left home alone. A lot of people attend because they've always gone and really don't care to stop.

It may take a few visits to grasp the subtleties, but if you let yourself into the flow of things, there's something to enjoy from the very first moment you're there. As the old saying goes, the mind believes what the mind believes: Grateful Dead is cerebral if you choose to analyze it, but it's basic and instinctive too. Like the game of baseball."

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Thursday, 25 August 2005 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, and there is a show up at archive.org, in the Phil Lesh and Friends section, of a show Phil Lesh did in 1959, with Phil playing some mean trumpet.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 01:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Another trumpet-playing bass player.

k/l (Ken L), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 01:48 (eighteen years ago) link

How common is this?

And this just occured to me - I can't think of any other rock musicians (besides blues guitarists) that are still playing music after six decades.

http://www.rockstar.it/img/Phil_Lesh.jpg

Godspeed, weirdo.

Suzy Creemcheese (SuzyCreemcheese), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 01:59 (eighteen years ago) link

three months pass...
Buy Jerry's toilets!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 30 November 2005 16:03 (eighteen years ago) link

ten months pass...
Results 1 - 10 of about 220 for "good old grateful dead"

(Result 3: Xgau)

Jack Straw - about rebellion in the sense of escape? or revolution? both?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 23:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I finally got a copy of the infamous Cornell '77 show that eman and Suzy talk about above.

Wow. It does live up to the legend. Freakin amazing, some of their best playing.

And to think, I thought I hated them live post-73!

Stormy Davis (diamond), Wednesday, 11 October 2006 23:48 (seventeen years ago) link

77 and 78 are a bit of a different kind of GD than earlier eras, but there's amazing stuff there. 5/9 is less epic but maybe almost as good as 5/8.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 12 October 2006 00:12 (seventeen years ago) link

.... ysi?

disappointing goth fest line-up (orion), Thursday, 12 October 2006 01:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Yep, there's a reason that Cornell '77 show gets hyped above all other Dead shows.

Pretty much all of May '77 is worth listening to. That 5/8/77 show though ... just has everything you'd want. Even the band banter telling the crowd to TAKE A STEP BACK is classic.

No one is gonna blame you for taking so long to leave the pre-hiatus '70s comfort zone, though. When I first started listening to GD I loved all that early '70s stuff, heard a bootleg from '87 and stayed away from post-hiatus double-drum line-up for years.

5/8/77 - fiercest Scarlet -> Fire, best Morning Dew climax, REALLY solid 1st set, etc. etc. It's pretty easy to find, too; plus the sound quality is A+.

Jamesy (SuzyCreemcheese), Thursday, 12 October 2006 01:55 (seventeen years ago) link

one year passes...

I think I sent this track to like Chaki and Ian before we all got all YSI'd out, but for all my fellow brethren and sistren here's an insane "Cream Puff War" from '67 -- nine minutes of amphetamine-fueled Jerry blowing his brains out, total punk rock--

stormy i want this again!!!

chaki, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 20:33 (sixteen years ago) link

oooh i want that

Mr. Que, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 20:37 (sixteen years ago) link

The problem with the defenses of American Beauty and Workingman's Dead as "concise" is that the conciseness still doesn't come close to solving their main problems: a lazy-ass sluggish rhythm section, and lazy-ass sluggish singers.

Sara Sara Sara, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 20:52 (sixteen years ago) link

How about "relaxed" and "loping" rather than "sluggish"? Plenty of great bands aren't speed demons.

I still haven't gotten the Cornell '77 thing, even though it seems to be a piece of cake to find.

Bill Magill, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 20:56 (sixteen years ago) link

yea, the relaxed thing is one of the things i like most about the dead. it makes me feel relaxed and happy.

they're over-praised, obv, which lends itself to intense criticism.

Surmounter, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:02 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm no fanatic, trust me, but in a certain time, place and mood they are perfect.

Bill Magill, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:04 (sixteen years ago) link

when casey jones came on the radio the other night i nearly cried. it was perfect.

Surmounter, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:06 (sixteen years ago) link

lololololol @ calling bill and phil "lazy" motherfuckers are work horses.

chaki, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:08 (sixteen years ago) link

Seriously. Bill is the fucking MVP of the Dead.

Trip Maker, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:14 (sixteen years ago) link

How about "relaxed" and "loping" rather than "sluggish"? Plenty of great bands aren't speed demons.

It has nothing to do with speed. Al Jackson and Jerome Brailey are relaxed and loping as fuck. Kreutzmann and Hart always struck me as just plain uninterested and unfocused. I swear, it's like they're high or something...

Sara Sara Sara, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:19 (sixteen years ago) link

i like the dead - theyre kinda a downr tho

jhøshea, Wednesday, 5 December 2007 21:23 (sixteen years ago) link


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