TEARS FOR FEARS - SONGS FROM THE BIG CHAIR (1985) POLL

SHOUT = so very clearly an influence on ...MASSES era depeche it hurts. especially NEVER LET ME DOWN AGAIN.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World never loses its magic. Ever. I don't know why.

Listen

No way is this album any worse than The Hurting. They never made one remotely perfect album, and, anyway, they were made for arena synth-pop, not the miserabilist kind.

Yeah fucking Hurting. I should bloody well listen to that one again. I've got it right here on my iPod.

Also fucking Curtis is right. I still don't have the Chameleons Tony Fletcher CD ripped, but never mind.

The Working Hour has always been a personal favorite. What a great record.

This thread seem to die a little early (and I admit I got pretty off topic, but damn that Timi Yuro didn't help matters :)) so I'm gonna give it a bump to help it out a little.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Still voted for "Head Over Heels" over "Everybody Wants to Rule The World." That chorus! The opening keyboards!

Alfred remains my proxy in all things.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

Woohooahh! Head Over Heels nearly in a landslide! I didn't see that one coming at all! Twice as much as Everybody...wow. ILMers have spoken. I love it.

Surprising but nice.

Now I hope "The Hurting" is next up?

SHOUT = so very clearly an influence on ...MASSES era depeche it hurts. especially NEVER LET ME DOWN AGAIN.

yah both are produced by david bascombe. dm used him for "masses" because they loved his worok on "big chair" (i think they said as much in reissue notes)

Which was quite pointless, as Depeche Mode had always been much better than Tears For Fears. Even when Tears For Fears were at their very best, as on "The Hurting" (which is a much better album than "Songs From The Big Chair"). Frankly, Depeche Mode might have benefited musically from continuing to have Daniel Miller as their producer on every album. They have been great afterwards too (partly except for "Songs Of Faith And Devotion" and "Music From The Masses" - their two least synthpop'y albums), but not as great as they were in the Daniel Miller era during the 80s.

http://softporal.ucoz.ru/Music/DepecheMode-Wrong.jpg

in fact 5:07 into 'mother's talk' sounds *just like* the intro to 'never let me down again'. i'm starting to realise how our man Bascombe was much more massively key to the succes of DM The American Arena Years. the drum machines on Big Chair are basically *the same ones* as on Music For The Masses.

How do I know I didn't vote in this poll?
6. Broken – 0

Between the searching and the need to work it out
I stopped believing everything will be alright

I love the crazy fucking siren guitar, too! The whole song sounds like a really polite & clean mental breakdown.

And in that way I see the song as an extension of their stuff on "The Hurting" moreso than any other song on this album though.

This album is fucking great BTW! I love both of them all the way through.

Save The Robot once wrote that Donnie Darko makes Head Over Heels seem like the greatest song of the 80s.

I remember being taunted by a guy on my Little League team when I told him my sister had bought this record for me for my birthday. Can't remember what he said exactly but it was something along the lines of "faggot shit." Mind you, we were twelve...

If I'd voted in this poll when it happened, I more than likely would have voted 'The Working Hour'. Listening to it right this very moment, however, 'I Believe' is really really doing it for me.

"The Working Hour" is a really odd track for a big-selling album, don't you think?

It's always been a huge favourite of mine... the way it introduces itself with the saxophone and keyboards, then the programmed rhythm arrives and that big, powerful sounding piano.

You're kinda right in a way, for a big selling album this really only has three obvious singles on it: 'Shout', 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' and 'Head Over Heels', although I think 'Head Over Heels' loses something when taken in isolation, and it's best heard as part of the 'Broken'/'Head Over Heels'/'Broken (Live)' suite on the album.

'Mothers Talk' and 'I Believe' were both released as singles, and even though I like 'Mothers Talk' (that BIG drum sound) and I *LOVE* 'I Believe', I wouldn't have had either down as contenders to be released as singles. 'Broken' and 'Listen' could never have been singles in a million years.

The best parts of 'The Working Hour' for me are the build in the intro and the sheer power of the "find out... find out..." outro, rather than the actual SONG itself. I feel that editing it down would have proved to be a bit of a headache, and it would have been necessary to do so if they were going to put it out as a single. I definitely think it would lose something if those parts were fucked with in any way!!

In fact, I think I remember a review of a reissue of Songs From The Big Chair which described 'The Working Hour' as "over-inflated rot"... christ, no! Every single part of that song has a purpose!

Agreed. Even better, I had the UK cassette which had a bunch of bonus tracks including this version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4G6XYm8hoc

Thanks for that, I hadn't heard that version before! :D

The part of "The Working Hour" where the band does the Bo Diddley riff/rhythm = wow.

"Working Hour" might seem an outlier, but it underscores the innate proggy-ness of a lot of this stuff. If anything, it's a much better job of prog as pop than anything Genesis did in the '80s, save perhaps bits of "Invisible Touch." ("Broken" is a total "Invisible Touch" song.) I remember reading an interview with the drummer on this, Manny Elias, and he readily admitted copping all sorts of Collins stuff.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World is one of the greatest singles of all time

'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' is such a great single, it got to #2 in the UK chart. Then, a year later, it was re-released as 'Everybody Wants To Run The World' as a charity single and got to #5. Both versions of the song re-entered the UK chart for a second time after they'd dropped out. Of course, 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World' was also an American #1.

During the early summer of '85 a brief window in the American charts allowed this and Paul Young's take on "Every Time You Go Away" to both hit #1; it was a flash of something ruminative and self-evaluating done at a Sirk-esque devotion to surfaces and decor.

The album itself had EXACTLY the same highest chart positions as 'Everybody Wants To Rule The World', funnily enough. #1 in the US, #2 in the UK. Both The Hurting and The Seeds Of Love made it to #1 in the UK, whereas Songs From The Big Chair didn't.

and neither of those albums hit #1 in the States. C'est la guerre...

It was held off the UK #1 spot by No Jacket Required, so I've just discovered. Ah well...

http://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/9da1aac3899034701b5f117e08b2c172/tumblr_n0uo6szY3R1rjggr6o1_500.png

Jeez, no votes for "Mothers Talk"? At one point that was just barely behind "Shout" for me.

Nothing screams "this is a record made in 1984-1985" quite like the production job on 'Mother's Talk'.

Nothing screams 80s Genesis like "Mother's Talk."

Be that as it may, I still dig it. There's a at least half a dozen versions, too:

LP version
7" version
12" extended version
Beat Of The Drum mix
US remix
Alt US remix

I like this song and Genesis!

so did TFF lose fans for recording such a brazen arena move? It could've gone so wrong – it could have been Once Upon a Time.

Good question. I was a fan of "The Hurting" and loved SFTBC. I don't think fans felt it was as blatant a stadium move as Simple Minds. I was rather shocked at TFF's success in America. It's much more complex and lyrically daring than the top 40 of the time.

That "Everybody Rules the World" took off doesn't surprise me. Even now the band mixed the thing so that it jumps out of the speakers AND sounds nothing like ruled the charts in spring and summer '85.

In interviews, Roland has made it clear they aspired to chart success but not at the cost of their artistic souls.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World is one of the greatest singles of all time

― Master of Treacle, Monday, September 17, 2012 5:48 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the first four songs even

It can be found easily if you f/w torrents

I was thinking wow Roland Beelzebub is looking quite old all of a sudden then a friend pointed out that he lost his wife suddenly a couple of years ago, poor guy :(

thank u for putting me on the path maresnest

it's on YouTube.

watching now while air drumming to "The Working Hour."

No mention of The Way You Are, oddly, a very definite nod to Japan and stepping stone between the first two records, perhaps they just didn't have time to fit it in.

boy, Roland and Curt always boasted regrettable hair, eh

they were among the few 80s stars who had even worse hair in the 00s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9Z1zZkSpQk

I never would have guessed that the album was so influenced by Talking Heads, let alone Ryuichi Sakamoto or Robert Wyatt

'i believe' proudly wears the wyatt influence on its sleeves imo.

omigod just heard Oleta Adams' live version of "I Believe."

I never get tired of the Oleta Adams story. Just think about that, a huge pop band hears a singer in a lounge in Kansas, then has her not only sing lead on the first song on the next album, but more or less get a solo showcase to open the subsequent tour.

'i believe' proudly wears the wyatt influence on its sleeves imo.

Absolutely. I just never made the connection, honestly, given I always listened to this album in a different context.

I love the tales of collaboration in the doc, who contributed or encouraged what. Songs that would have been discarded or ignored had someone not stepped in, often independently, with a good idea.

"Sea Song" is one of the B-sides iirc

Despite 'Sea Song', I never made the connection either, I don't really hear much of Wyatt in the vocal, unlike the producers.

I think the chunky knitwear is a bigger crime than the hair, it's almost its own genre.

Also, Roland (and others in the doc) OTM that one reason the album has stood the test of time, despite being so "'80s," is the depth of his lyrics. As he says, it's pretty remarkable that at 57 he isn't embarrassed singing songs written by his 20-year old self 35 (!) years earlier.

The use of grand piano + synths was striking at the time too, and the sax solos aren't grueling.

wold love a Seeds of Love doc too tbh

the production on this album is pretty absurd in the best sense, you could tell they just went in and wanted to make it sound expansive and ocean deep.

The intro to the album version of "Mother's Talk has always sounded to me as if TFF were mimicking a Trevor Horn production.

I remember in the liner notes to the deluxe edition they mention Steely Dan being an influence. I can’t really hear it, apart from maybe a comparable yearning in the vocals. And maybe “everybody wants to rule the world” was influenced a little by “I.G.Y.”?

not that influences have to be necessarily audible/perceivable

it’s funny how Depeche Mode were like “um we need to sound like this NOW” and got the same producer to make music for the masses

They always seem to ignore a track in these documentaries. Poor "Broken". The way it book-ends and extends "HOH" (and binds the whole of side two together) is a little bit brilliant in context, IMHO.

I was thinking wow Roland Beelzebub is looking quite old all of a sudden then a friend pointed out that he lost his wife suddenly a couple of years ago, poor guy :(

Yeah, sometime around late July of 2017, as far as I can remember? But don't worry, he's found a new love in a young woman named Emily and they're ENGAGED!

Back to the topic of this discussion, I'm glad a lot of y'all caught the Classic Albums episode. I've been meaning to catch the uploads of it available online but am suffering from a severe case of "too much to watch and too little time to watch it all"-itis right now and cannot watch it in its entirety yet, but the intro looked super promising. The fan community has been abuzz about them omitting Manny Elias from the discussion while also including Ian Stanley, and it was nice that they included Oleta Adams.

BTW, "Mothers Talk" is insanely good and I don't get why it didn't get any votes in the original poll.

Why wouldn't Ian Stanley be there? He co wrote almost every song, and played on every track.

Manny Elias missing is a better question. Sounds like the drums were a mixture of programmed and real playing, but the documentary (misleadingly?) implied Chris Hughes did a lot of the playing himself.

Oleta Adams looked fabulous.

Where is this doc? I can’t find it online.

It was this one if that helps:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000f8xc

Not on iPlayer anymore but you might be able to find a torrent

If you'd just asked two weeks ago it'd still be on iplayer!

I've found a torrent link for it so you should be able to get it

I have long been a stan for this hammered dulcimer version of EWTRTW - something about it really brings out the sweetness of the melody. I love when he hits that tuning peg like a metronome too. There's also a version where Curt Smith came to his house and sang over it, but I like it as an instrumental better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6QOr-oCTwU

That's great

They're pretty lax with the DVDs of these things; the Amy Winehouse one was first broadcast years back and there's no sign of a release. Still haven't seen it, gah.

xp Yeah there are torents knoking about of the Big Chair one.