What the hell is going on with Miles' Second Great Quintet?

http://www.sonymusicstore.com/coverimages/SME_0101_CGK_034976.70Q_200x200_72dpi_RGB.jpg

Got this yesterday. Really interesting.

Is it good? I haven't heard any of the VSOP stuff, though it's intriguing in theory. I have heard the "Tribute To Miles" CD from the early 90s, which has Herbie, Tony, Wayne, Ron and ummmm someone else who isn't Freddie Hubbard. It's pretty OK!

I can't speak to this, but the Leo Smith/Henry Kaiser electric Miles tribute band is pretty cool.

I like this one a lot.

If the 60s SGQ stuff is on one side of a wall and Bitches Brew is on the other, this stuff stands firmly in the former territory but is making an effort to fuck the bricks.

I have heard the "Tribute To Miles" CD from the early 90s, which has Herbie, Tony, Wayne, Ron and ummmm someone else who isn't Freddie Hubbard.

Probably Wallace Roney? He was the trumpeter in the Tony Williams quintet I saw in '91 or '92. He even stood like Miles! Fine show that was - Tony played the most musical drum solo I've ever heard, and employed only tomtoms, didn't hit the snare or cymbals even once.

(Incidentally, I've never been crazy about those '67-69 Miles recs either - not high-strung enough for my tastes.)

Yeah i think that's the guy. He's good! Though Tony Williams kind of owns that set. Sounds like he's pretty determined to not let things get too maudlin, despite the occasion.

i never listened to that VSOP album more than a few times, i should revisit but i remember it having some really great moments but on the whole being pretty boring and poorly recorded

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the VSOP stuff.

Roney was also Miles' understudy at that Montreux Jazz Festival event where Davis and Quincy Jones ran through the orchestral material. He was there just in case Miles couldn't hack it, but his services were not required, as it turned out.

Geri Allen's husband, as I recall. I've got an album with the two of them (and some other folks) doing originals in a SGQ style.

Sorry, my mistake, it's Carlos McKinney playing piano on this record.

http://www.wallaceroney.net/disc/infoAlbum.php?albumid=18&releaseid=23

I was just listening to that recent Wayne Shorter quartet with Danilo Perez, John Patatucci (sp?), and Brian Blade and thinking about how much the Miles quintet sound owed to Shorter's compositions.

Shorter is amazing yeah

Having finally heard the Complete Plugged Nickel I think I get it now.

Tony Williams on "Footprints" is breaking my head. The 4/4 samba (I think?) stuff against the 6/4 tune is @_@

nice tune too

That would be a good song to do a "Hey Jazz D-Bags! Post a version or several of..." thread for.

yeah, that metric modulation shit on footprints is all-time. so influential too (like all the similar stuff that wynton did with his '80s band, just for one).

Here is a discussion of "Footprints" that was linked to once before, but the images seem to be missing http://www.bassplayer.com/article/ron-carters-groove/aug-03/794

ohhh 'footprints' is probably my favorite tune from this quintet. talk about the 'lightness of touch' mentioned upthread & also how carter's bass line totally underpins things.

i had these albums for a couple of years and like hoos i couldn't really discern what was going on. but one time 'footprints' just totally clicked for me, it really became my gateway into this period, and after that i started to really see the genius behind these albums. i think this is my favorite miles period tbh

and 'miles smiles' prob my favorite album from this band, maybe my favorite miles ever

Tony Williams on "Footprints" is breaking my head. The 4/4 samba (I think?) stuff against the 6/4 tune is @_@

Sometimes I think that Tony Williams was sent from another planet.

think i mentioned it on another Miles thread, but I've been knocked out by the recently released Monterey 1963 set (featuring the pre-Shorter band). Just an amazingly sweet performance -- and yeah, Williams sounds ridiculous. I mean, he was what 17 or 18 at that point -- and he OWNS that band. Must've had incredible confidence in his abilities. Or he just didn't know any better!

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/oct/13/miles-davis-second-great-quintet

"Tony and I had got into the habit of playing all kinds of mixed rhythms ... so we started playing some of those rhythm things behind Miles too, things that were hard to predict, would sometimes swing and sometimes float. The first night we did it he stopped a lot in his solos, jerked around as if he was uncomfortable, not sure what to do, trying to find his way. Next day, he was more at ease, playing longer phrases, but still not into it. Then by the last set on the next day, he wasn't struggling with it any more at all. In fact he played so many unexpected things himself that it was me that was jerking around! In less than 24 hours Miles had not just grabbed the ball, but run beyond us with it."

does anyone know exactly what is going on on the title track of "Nefertiti"? It sounds like Miles' horn line is either being double-tracked a bit behind the beat, or double-tracked with a delay, or (although it doesn't sound like this to me) being doubled a bit out of time by another horn, maybe the saxophone? Is this just Macero at work here? It's a great effect but I'm curious how it was done, since this pre-dates a lot of the more aggressive shit Macero did later.

it's just Miles and Wayne Shorter playing off each other. but yeah, around 5:25 in, they do a nice faux-echo effect sans any editing at all

their tones are so close! it's uncanny

I've been losing it over Water Babies this week, it's the only record of this era I hadn't heard. I think I thought it was another electric era live show bootleg that got repackaged, or something?

Anyway, it's so spacious and effortless and playful, and sounds amazing. It captures this moment when they moved away from swing, but it's still super rhythmic and interactive without a backbeat for the most part. The straight 8th approach makes it sound like it could have come out today, or maybe it's a Rosetta stone for a lot of contemporary groups.

God I love it so much too. Always thought I was crazy for loving it so much! Just a perfect vibe.

Wayne Shorter does a couple of those tunes on Super Nova too but they’re pretty different

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1109974-W-Process

W. Process is the secret sauce, he crushes it on that track

Water babies has artwork by same guy who did On The Corner. Probably because it wasn't released for a few years after recording.

I’m a big fan of the “silently judging” lil dude in the ill fitting suit

big fan of the artwork on this 80s reissue:

http://imgur.com/PuayoTw

http://i.imgur.com/PuayoTw.jpg

Miles is glowering at some kids playing in a fire hydrant spray just off camera.

haha so much (mostly) unintentional hilarity surrounding this album. I <3 JAZZ!

e.s.p. is just the greatest goddamn album ever

My son bought the big 20 Original Albums box and I've been gradually working my way through it chronologically. Some I have heard previously of course, but some are brand new listens for me. I'm just about to start on this period, beginning with E.S.P., so I'll use this thread as a reference.

There are many days where I think this is probably the greatest combination of five utterly god tier musicians to have ever played together

Water Babies sounds amazing right now, thanks thread!