RS Top 500

i don't mean this as a criticism of LARS or anyone who likes it -- it's a great fucking song -- but it's far from my favorite "rock" song, far from my favorite dylan song, and i've never quite understood how it came to assume its unquestioned place on top of the rock heap.

and i can't believe it's simply because it was over three minutes long (i mean, that's worth celebrating in a historical way, but if we're going to start measuring songs by their length, i'm gonna have to start complaining about the underrepresntation of yes, genesis and iron maiden on the RS list. and i really don't want to do that).

and maybe both versions of "blue thunder".

Ah, white people.

Because whenever they do these "Best songs of all time" lists, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is ALWAYS the highest-ranking '90s song. And then there aren't anymore 90s songs for at least ten or twenty spots.

I don't think it's so silly to say that the "rock-and-roll era" had start and end dates, even if the given ones are wrong. It's just like saying "the swing era" -- there are still swing bands even today but they don't have anywhere near the grip on the listening public they did in the 1920s and 30s. I don't think there was any value judgment intended in that.

"More than 200 of the tunes were penned in the swinging sixties, and 144 were written the following decade. The 1980s, known for glam rock and bad fashion, could offer just 55 songs. There were only three songs from the current decade. Eminem's Lose Yourself reached number 166, and the controversial rapper also came in at number 290 with Stan. OutKast's memorable hit from last year, Hey Ya, came in at number 180."

Also: "Spirit in the Sky" is some 100 spaces above "I Feel Love".

I promised myself I wouldn't flip out and get all rage-spaz on this board ever again about anything Rolling Stone ever did, but I guess now's as good a time as any to break that promise.

36. One, U2

162. Nothing Compares 2 U, Sinead O'Connor

169. Losing My Religion, R.E.M.

200. Loser, Beck

256. Paranoid Android, Radiohead

259. Hallelujah, Jeff Buckley

286. Summer Babe, Pavement

331. I Can't Make You Love Me, Bonnie Raitt

346. California Love, Tupac Shakur

353. Tears in Heaven, Eric Clapton

376. Fake Plastic Trees, Radiohead

382. Bitter Sweet Symphony, The Verve

399. Enter Sandman, Metallica

406. I Believe I Can Fly, R. Kelly

407. In Bloom, Nirvana

419. Nuthin' But a 'G' Thang, Dr. Dre

445. Come As You Are, Nirvana

455. All Apologies, Nirvana

475. Sabotage, Beastie Boys

497. Buddy Holly, Weezer

jesus -- how many fucking top XXX lists can these fuckfaces keep shitting out?

-- Mr. Snrub

Yeah Nirvana is honorary classic rock for sure. No song from the 80s in the Top 50. I believe the U2 and Nirvana songs are the only ones in Top 50 after '75.

Haha, wtf?

I mean I guess Clapton used to be an old blues guy and all, but "I Believe I Can Fly?" What a horrible token R. pick.

419 - Dr. Dre - "Nuthin' But A G Thang"
Dre's debut solo single sampled the bass line from Leon Haywood's '75 hit "I Want'a Do Something Freaky to You." Dre on his working methods: "I sit around by myself in the studio at home, push buttons and see what happens."

Didn't know if this was worth a new thread so putting it here. Noticed that RollingStone put up a revised top 500 to reflect the 00s more than the previous top 500. Not a whole lot of changes at the top. Noticed that both The Bends and Kid A were rated higher than OK Computer; I wouldn't think that was the consensus. Also noticed Elvis' The Sun Sessions is now in the top 11.

Anyway, here's the link: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-20120531

Thumbed through this at cvs the other night; the first Arcade Fire album is just inside the top 150.

Actually I tell a lie: it's in @#151.

Oh, so this is its own issue then? I thought it was just some online exclusive.

And because I'm bored to tears, I give you the top ten albums from 2000-2010, according to the new RS 500 list:

Radiohead - Kid A @ 67
Kanye West - Late Registration @ 118
Arcade Fire - Funeral @ 151
The Strokes - Is This It @ 199
Bob Dylan - Modern Times @ 204
Green Day - American Idiot @ 225
Eminem - Marshall Mathers LP @ 244
Jay Z - The Blueprint @ 252
Eminem - The Slim Shady LP @ 275
U2 - All That You Can't Leave Behind @ 280

so what are the major differences between this and 2003/2004 list?

American Idiot? You have got to be kidding me.

I think they re-voted and included 2003-2010 releases. I'm kind of skeptical though. Is there really that many people who think Sgt Pepper is the greatest rock album ever in 2012? I'm fine with the Beatles landing the top spot for various reasons, but that album would seem to be more polarizing.

You missed that Peter Wolf album from 2002 that snuck in the bottom fifty in the old list and somehow (cough, Jann, cough) stuck around.

They claim now that the list was made by working some math magic via combining the old results with the ballots from their "Best of The 2000s" poll.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/best-songs-of-all-time-1224767/

new top 500 songs list, significantly improved on representation of black artists but still a deeply goofy list in typical rs fashion. "royals" at 30 lmao & did the elton john biopic drastically inflate his critical standing or something?

lmao "dynamite" made it there surely can't be anything more embarrassing than that

most 'lol modern rolling stone' pick is harry styles though

That is, if they truly want a more concise list with a wider representation of genres and expertise behind it. I don’t think you get the full picture if you ask a white indie rocker from the 80’s what he thinks are the best hip hop songs of all time or a techno producer what he thinks are the best punk rock singles of all time. Those make for interesting individual lists but for a very unrepresentative global list.

Yeah but wouldn't theoretically a techno producer's ballot have a lot of techno on it, and a white indie '80s rocker's ballot have a lot of white indie '80s rock?

Hell you can even give 50% of the list a rock-adjacent restriction and the remaining 250 in whichever subsets of genres and subgenres you want and 100% guaranteed you end up with a more focused and agreeable general list.

can't believe Rolling Stone's 500 Best Songs of All Time list lacks statistical rigour

Yeah but wouldn't theoretically a techno producer's ballot have a lot of techno on it, and a white indie '80s rocker's ballot have a lot of white indie '80s rock?

― i carry the torch for disco inauthenticity (Eric H.)

In theory yes but the voting was not restricted in any way and if you look at some of the individual ballots upthread you’ll see that the assignment encourages voters to choose their favorite songs of all time rather than what they think should be the most representative ones in any given genre.

I think a little more focus would help. If you have someone voting for idk 4 hip hop songs, but struggles to think of his/hers/their list of 50 best hip hop songs of all time… is that the voice of someone who really loves hip hop and that should be voting for hip hop at all? Not pointing any fingers, maybe several voters are indeed heavy hip hop fans, just saying that having more focus on their core tastes or expertise would make a more interesting or agreeable list.

For me the electronica or electronic adjacent picks on the list are terrible and pretty much inexistent. Even “electronic” artists with a connection to rock that most RS readers would agree deserve a spot like say; Aphex Twin, Brian Eno, Chemical Brothers, Bjork, Massive Attack, Portishead, Tricky are completely missing.

Yeah you can’t please them all but… “get lucky”!? For real? That’s the one? Lol

Björk's got Buñuel syndrome. Too many masterpieces for consensus.

I’ ll take the worse song on Homogenic than whatever is being pushed as electronic pop in this list.

Moka, you … do… know the internet economy is based on clicks and social engagement, right

Like a big goofy list is going to get people talking/clicking more than some baroque labyrinth of genre exercises

Wait, sorry, I see you are petitioning for ONE list

I know I know… but I have a right to dream!

People will still click and discuss both the bad and good list decisions, though.

Yeah… sucks that english is not my first language since I tend to overexplain without making myself fully clear.

Let’s say you get a group of hip hop experts on board and they get to the 50 greatest hip hop songs of all time. Most of them end up voting for idk let’s say “fight the power”. And then most of the rock board decided that “like a rolling stone” is the most voted song. And then the soul/rnb experts went for “respect”… maybe you do end up with the same top 10 than what we got. Who knows?

Or maybe the rock experts can’t make up their mind and the top 20 is filled consensus metal and rap picks.

or maybe we'll die in a fire

Lol lots of what ifs. Anyhow, I’ll stop with that, it’s obviously not going to happen that way ever and it’s a good lost for what it is.

I always like looking at individual ballots in these big efforts. That’s where you find the real good stuff. Hope they included them somehow or made a separate article with them like (I think?) pitchfork does.

*good list for what it is

I look at some of the individual ballots above and they keep surprising me and feeling excited in an “oh yes! That’s a really cool pick for greatest song ever” in more ways than the top 500 does.

The top 500 does have several songs in there which are undeniable classics and some surprises. I particularly love that I’m starting to see finally a latin influence in there with Celia Cruz, Jorge Ben, Selena, Bad Bunny, Daddy Yankee… it’s small steps but they’re significant in my eyes… I very rarely see that representation, I’m used to only seeing idk Santana in rock dominant lists.

this is why the gasolina inclusion was a moment where i was like, hell yea, regardless of my personal feelings on the song it feels like a recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Friday, September 17, 2021 11:37 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Seriously, what's to celebrate in tokenism ? How does Gasolina represent a tradition if the people who voted for this list do not know the first thing about Latin music ? Who in reggaeton needs the acknowledgment or recognition of RS ? To pretend that this has value or meaning is so completely incomprehensible. This list is what it is: 60 years of ongoing biases that are only restated in thinly corrected forms.

"recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented" --> Yeah right, real representativity here, you'd almost think the US is not insulated.

Moka is right, this list can only elicit an endless list of "why ?"

Björk's got Buñuel syndrome. Too many masterpieces for consensus.

If Bjork mixed good martinis too, she's godhead.

Sorry, wrong thread

Seriously, what's to celebrate in tokenism ? How does Gasolina represent a tradition if the people who voted for this list do not know the first thing about Latin music ? Who in reggaeton needs the acknowledgment or recognition of RS ? To pretend that this has value or meaning is so completely incomprehensible. This list is what it is: 60 years of ongoing biases that are only restated in thinly corrected forms.

― Nabozo

I agree. While it provides surprises having idk 1 reggaeton song, 1 cumbia song, 1 salsa song… at the same time being so eclectic doesn’t work. It doesn’t really provide a full picture and honestly nobody is expecting it. I’d much rather prefer more specialized lists. Because now you have to make space for idk an afropop song in the 400-500 and it’s going to be a very obvious choice. I’d rather have a rock song that rarely gets credit in the lower ranks than the token cumbia song everybody who cares knows already by heart.

Tokenism isn’t what I’m celebrating lol my point is the most of the inclusions on this list which I consider a failure make me cringe & that particular example is like the grain of what could be a more interesting list, the moment where you’re like oh this list *could* actually celebrate more of the breadth of music if they were trying.

I thought my whole point in drawing attention to snoop dogg > slick Rick tradition / continuum made it clear this had nothing to do w tokenism …? Gasolina is more than a “token” song anyway but that’s another conversation

Like I’m genuinely mystified how you could read the part directly before the mention of Gasolina as me advocating for tokenism lol

No worries, it was more a point of frustration I was trying to air than an attack against you or your post. As others have said, yourself now included, I just find the list very mediocre, so I took issue at trying to find an angle of analysis to grant it some kind of hidden significance.

i didn’t see if there was any other reggaeton on there, but would be cool if don omar’s bandoleros” made it

― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Friday, September 17, 2021 6:06 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

‘danza kuduro’ imo

lists are funny

Aside from a small handful of choices like "Thank U Next" or maybe "Hotline Bling" or "Thinking About You," the token 2010s entries all feel grossly forced. Whereas more beloved tracks like "Work" or "We Found Love" or "Trap Queen" would probably not seem nearly as awkward. Even "Hard Times" or Charli XCX "Boys" are better choices than most of these. Or any song from Black Messiah.

Wtf are "Savage" or "I Like It" or "Redbone" doing here? Did "WAP" come in at #501?

Not sure if this is mentioned yet but noticing they made room for every prominent musician who died since 2020. Like "Radiation Vibe" is great but it's a very unexpected choice in context and gets me thinking maybe 10 people voted for 10 different Adam Schlesinger tracks and the editors made an executive decisions to combine those votes towards one song.

...which wasn't even entirely his.

10 specialized top 50 lists instead of a gral top 500

Yeah I really like this idea. Or a randomly organized list of 500 songs chosen only by superfans of the artists being polled. "500 Fan Favorites" or something.

Re: Prominent recently dead musicians, this actually worked in a good way for "The Humpty Dance" since it absolutely deserves to be here and sadly would probably not have been considered otherwise.