Armond White:"Can Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop?"

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You just know that collab is coming too, dontchya.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:58 (nineteen years ago) link

haha there's kind of a fine line separating "perfect drug" from "is that your bitch" i guess

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 00:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Jesus H. Christ on a goddamn fucking crutch. I want to hit the author of the piece with one of those scaly fish that causes bleeding scrapes on skin.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:01 (nineteen years ago) link

ROCK IS BACK!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:02 (nineteen years ago) link

ARGH.

I mean seriously, Gear, you say his music criticism is okay and his FILM criticism is what sucks?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:03 (nineteen years ago) link

he's not talking about production values! or music!

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

so is this the long delayed answer video to monster magnet's 'alt-rock videos = boring ass; hip-hop videos = super fun time' salvo?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:06 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahah.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Fish beatings?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:10 (nineteen years ago) link

The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

― Sym (shmuel), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link

I get too distracted by the girl in the Kanye video to even notice that he's rapping. It's a good video like that.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link

the kanye video is an oblique meditation of the toll child acting takes on the actors themselves

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:22 (nineteen years ago) link

(and also stacey dash's very fine breasts and behind)

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:22 (nineteen years ago) link

Who is the child actor in the Kanye video?

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:24 (nineteen years ago) link

the small asian boy who squirts mustard on him

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Fish beatings?

The sledgehammer is used for Rush L. tonight.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link

also, kanye was played by emmanuel lewis.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:25 (nineteen years ago) link

Stacey Dash has a great name. I can't believe she was NEARLY 30 when she did Clueless!

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:27 (nineteen years ago) link

Hahaha I totally don't remember her from any of these TV shows.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:27 (nineteen years ago) link

when she gets married she will be mrs. dash

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:28 (nineteen years ago) link

Sprinkle some of that shit over here, honey.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Salt free, even.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I was damning with faint praise, Raggett! the article is hilarious.

I mean As Romanek's images keep coming at you—pulsing to producer Rick Rubin's sullen, reverberating beat—they fall into line as maybe the truest-ever hiphop portrait of New York life.

Thank you Rick and Mark for saving hip hop from itself!

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:32 (nineteen years ago) link

he is worse as a film critic, believe it or not. Apparently if you didn't like 3000 Miles to Graceland, Misson to Mars, A:I, etc and you DID like anything shot on DV, Guy Maddin, etc. you're a moron.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:35 (nineteen years ago) link

I like the first, hated the next two (well M2M is fine enough for comedy, I guess). I don't like Guy Maddin though and I am ambivalent about DV.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I don't mind his opinions but his tendency to villify those who disagree or just happen to feel differently. I'm sure among NYC writers he's pretty notorious for being a dick.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:41 (nineteen years ago) link

That would be the pot calling the kettle black.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:42 (nineteen years ago) link

true true

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:45 (nineteen years ago) link

usually Armond White is frothing at the mouth with racist conspiracies than ILM, shame he handled this one with kid gloves.

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

with *more* racist etc, that should've said

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 01:54 (nineteen years ago) link

I was damning with faint praise, Raggett! the article is hilarious.

Just checking. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:11 (nineteen years ago) link

The Kanye video isn't just T&A. And I'm pretty sure Jay never raps "let me reintroduce myself"

he does rap it, but it's "allow me to" and it's in the second interlude/psa. i haven't seen the 99 problems video yet; but i know at least parts of this interlude were mixed into the dirt off my shoulder video so i guess anything's possible.

― andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 02:52 (nineteen years ago) link

I read this thread as "Can, Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop." Heh.

― Laszlo Kovacs (Laszlo Kovacs), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 04:20 (nineteen years ago) link

http://www.furious.com/perfect/graphics/can1.jpg
gerades outta Deutschland

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:20 (nineteen years ago) link

Lights in the city went dark, then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

I wonder if Hova lectured the director about the importance of misunderstood life-force during the filming of "Dirt Off Your Shoulder."

― Erick (Imbroglio), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 05:58 (nineteen years ago) link

he actually can be an ok movie critic sometimes, i have to admit

― amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 06:42 (nineteen years ago) link

haha when?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:44 (nineteen years ago) link

He may be over the top and largely wrong, but you have to admit that's a well written piece.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 07:56 (nineteen years ago) link

he's made such an exercise of wringing every bit of MEANING out of "99 problems" (and "dirt off your shoulder", sheesh), you'd think he'd have more trouble dismissing every other bit of hiphop that doesn't see the music video as a minor branch of independant cinema.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:25 (nineteen years ago) link

over the top + largely wrong = not well written (unless you mean "he wrote complete sentences and punctuated them correctly" = well written, which is wrong, too)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean he made his points, defended them well and used good examples.

I think he's wrong and that his compliments towards the video were over the top.
i don't see how that precludes it being a well-written piece.

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:28 (nineteen years ago) link

(sp = independent)(sorry, its a bugbear)

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:30 (nineteen years ago) link

actually, I'm being kneejerk. AW has written very well about lots of things--his piece on the Lovin' Spoonful's "Summer in the City" a couple years ago put his overblown tendencies to excellent use. I just think he's being shortsighted here, and that his good points ("Most hiphop videos don't document New York so much as portray its mean-streets myth") are outgunned by his not-so-good ones (see Strongo upthread)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:31 (nineteen years ago) link

the logic is sort of like "the Roots are so much better than the rest of hip-hop because they take rock values (live instrumentation rather than samples and turntables) and transpose them to hip-hop!" and I like "99 Problems" fine, but I didn't think I was seeing anything all that out of the ordinary for a hip-hop vid.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:35 (nineteen years ago) link

... then all the ghetto folk began to glow like images in a thermal x-ray. Their phosphorescence symbolized life-force, a misunderstood (often misrepresented) energy.

this is pretty funny.

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:41 (nineteen years ago) link

who knew predator vision had such emancipatory promise?

― m. (mitchlnw), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (nineteen years ago) link

reminds me of

http://images.google.ie/images?q=tbn:dce0zKbAxUcJ:www.timelinestudios.com/images

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Ronan now that you've figured out how to post pictures you're just going nuts, aren't you?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:45 (nineteen years ago) link

yes! but that actually did remind me of that!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:46 (nineteen years ago) link

how!?

― Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 08:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Skipping 32 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I said I liked the movie upthread, but reading that review you'd have no idea it was actually good.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Did you like it for the same reasons or is he just insane?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:14 (nineteen years ago) link

No, I like it mostly despite the things he talks about liking. Yes, he is insane.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:15 (nineteen years ago) link

So I figured.

Seriously, looking at the original article again, what the flying fuck. You couldn't have done a better parody article on the subject if you tried.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:16 (nineteen years ago) link

oops, looks like I didn't like Duets either, sorry.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Strangely I agree with him some of the time, but he clearly not only thinks he's right about everything, and that not only is everyone else wrong, everyone else is morally suspect and possibly evil.

He has a hard-on for DePalma, Altman, Walter Hill, Alan Rudolph, Tupac, the Smiths, and few others.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Having a hard-on for Alan Rudolph makes you morally suspect in my book.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Sure hope he googles himself and comes here and complains. I'll be deeply entertained!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:36 (nineteen years ago) link

Fuck him for liking shit like Afterglow and Welcome to LA.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

The funny part about the New York Press is that he and the other critic (Matt Zoller Seitz) don't seem to like each other, judging from the occasional sniping. Seitz is actually one of my favorite film critics. A more lucid thinker, a better writer, and his opinions always seem to be his own, he's never reacting against what others have said about the film in question.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:42 (nineteen years ago) link

For the record, I think Walter Hill and Brian Depalma are underrated, too. Altman is overrated though (except for Nashville and McCabe and Mrs. Miller which can't be overrated enough.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Wednesday, 12 May 2004 23:44 (nineteen years ago) link

The "99 Problems" video is cool, but no one should be paying any attention to Armond White. As a (film) critic, he's so far up his own bungy that he can say "hi!" to Thanksgiving Dinner.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Gear OTM about MZS

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:05 (nineteen years ago) link

Though the image of some "wiggers" shouting out Puffy as he enters Stage Left is pretty fun.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:06 (nineteen years ago) link

my favorite Armond White review is for American Beauty, he went real apeshit on that one and for the most part I agree.

― Al (sitcom), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:07 (nineteen years ago) link

He was made that it was too mean, right? (I'm just guessing.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link

made=mad

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:21 (nineteen years ago) link

There was another overblown piece about this video in the Sunday NYT too.

― C0L1N B3CK3TT (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 13 May 2004 01:37 (nineteen years ago) link

first off, "stigmatization is perpetuated..." fuck that shit. jay-z just has talent like louie armstrong, or whoever that trumpet player was who blew in front of all white bands and audiences. duke ellington! it's a total white-guy "keeping it real" retard notion. i can't believe this

I actually like his movie reviews. I mean he doesn't shy away from letting you know how he really feels. Also, they tend to be pretty memorable. I think I see his "overblown tendencies" as strong emotional resposes. Not what you usually get with movie reviews, i guess unless you count "hated it" or "loved it."

strong emotional responses are overblown tendencies when you can't write well. so many words i'd rather read "hated it" or "loved it" with a picture of him smiling smarmy, lips hiding teeth, eyes hollow. hated it!

― $corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 04:55 (nineteen years ago) link

key phrases redux:

1) "partake in its spectacle"

― $corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 05:02 (nineteen years ago) link

1) "...partake in its spectacle"
2) "the familiar edifice of ghetto-fabulous determinism"
3) "pauses for condescension"

― $corpium ($corpium), Thursday, 13 May 2004 05:06 (nineteen years ago) link

(1) lots of black musicians played in all-white clubs during the '20s and '30s; not sure what yr overriding point there is.

(2) Armond White is, in fact, black.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:15 (nineteen years ago) link

(a photo and interview: http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/winter2004/features/the_critic.html)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:17 (nineteen years ago) link

yeah, i was gonna say, the guy is black.

i actually don't like reading his essays per se but he sometimes has short little pieces in film comment that are ok, sometimes he has interesting reasons for talking about something. his taste is really perverse and unpredictable, which is good and bad.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 13 May 2004 06:54 (nineteen years ago) link

five years pass...

http://altreport.hipsterrunoff.com/2010/04/jay-z-drops-ultimate-douchebag-quote-describes-bono-using-dirty-projjies-lyric-stillness-is-the-move.html

^^ amazing

― Big Fate (as Alvin 'Xzibit' Joiner) (history mayne), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:38 (fourteen years ago) link

while he did throw shapes abt these indie bands to drum up publicity for blueprint 3, the common source of this for both jay-z & d projectors is probably new-agey self-help stuff. it's a p ancient idea.

― tbrrprint (2) HD (zvookster), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:52 (fourteen years ago) link

jayzheadnod.gif

― nakhchivan, Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (fourteen years ago) link

haha!

― tbrrprint (2) HD (zvookster), Tuesday, 13 April 2010 13:53 (fourteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

Armond on The Smiths' Girlfriend in a Coma

― flappy bird, Friday, 11 August 2017 04:22 (six years ago) link

God I hate to be "well actually" but girlfriend in a coma isn't even in the top 10 of controversial morrissey/smiths songs

― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 11 August 2017 06:51 (six years ago) link

i've never been a fan of armond but that was a pretty decent piece imo

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Friday, 11 August 2017 07:23 (six years ago) link

did we ever get this sorted lads

― for sale: clown shoes, never worn (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 11 August 2017 08:33 (six years ago) link

somewhere in my hellsite of a flat i have a copy of a new york city sun (from 1992 i guess?) which contains two long articles by armond white (while it lasted he was its critic-in-chief)

1: is a long detailed look at malcolm x the historical figure and malcolm x the movie
2: the other is a long favourable look at morrissey, who AW was very evidently drawn to

given both their subsequent trajectories i think this is both telling and -- to be fair to AW -- perceptive

(the movie came out the exact month of the madstock/union jack controversy, which is where inklings of doubt did begin elsewhere; can't recall if the city sun piece discusses this or predates it; should probably look it out and report back, perhaps a month off-line wd do me good)

― mark s, Friday, 11 August 2017 10:45 (six years ago) link

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