Leonard Cohen: Classic or Dud

oooh sweet didn't even know about that, thanks.

also, best comment on leonard's appeal came from the singer out of lamb, appearing in some documentary: "he's like isaac hayes, for poetry girls"

i fucking hate this notion. lyrics and music ARE NOT TWO SEPARATE THINGS. they are fundamentally intertwined.

that's a nice opinion, but it's not true; one can reproduce the lyrics of a song on paper, and there you go, the lyrics, all by their lonesome; one can do an instrumental version of a song, and what do you know, the music, a totally separate thing. you can argue that they're best together but your present argument is that there's no such thing as a hot dog or mustard, just a dog with mustard because the flavors intertwine

of course you could always say "for me, the two are fundamentally intertwined, and it's hard for me to imagine how people don't think of it that way," and who could argue with you there?

Of course most people don't care about lyrics. Consider the fact that the hot new thing is Best Coast, while Simon Joyner probably couldn't sell out an in-store. Even (relatively) popular artists who happen to be excellent lyricists - like Bill Callahan, Will Sheff, Sam Beam, etc - are celebrated more for their eccentricities, their 'style,' or the fact that this song or that song features a harpsichord or, God forbid, has good 'production' (which I'm still convinced most indie fans don't know from 'engineering' anyway).

Sorry for the rant. Leonard Cohen rules, duh.

Melody is where they intertwine. But Cohen is such a formal poet (other than his actual poetry, which is often free verse) that the lyrics aren't dependent on the specific melody. Never Any Good has great lyrics, is a great "song" from the lyrics alone, but has a crazy arrangement that doesn't serve it well. "A Thousand Kisses Deep" has an identical meter to "Coming Back to You," and so the melodies could be switched on them as well. Once you get into free verse, harder to impose a melody on individual lyrics without changing the "song."

Consider the fact that the hot new thing is Best Coast, while Simon Joyner probably couldn't sell out an in-store.

these aren't really an ideal comparison, though; simon joyner is not jumpin' electric guitar music excised of the woos and wailing. arguments that discount the lyrical value of 'simple' lyrics blow, ignoring the poetry and articulacy of chuck berry. i think equating 'don't care about lyrics' with 'eschew bill callahan's meditations on faith' is wrong - people get a lot of wisdom and communion out of shangri-las records. if it's that leonard cohen is a guy who writes esoteric meandering verses and doesn't throw a lot of bones to foot-tapping hip-swingers, maybe that's so.

You raise some very good points. I didn't say lyrics need to be meaningful or 'deep' to resonate - "She loves you, yeah yeah yeah' is as good a pop lyric as any, I reckon. My issue is that a lot of contemporary bands barely try, and worse, no one seems to mind. The new Black Keys album would be terrific if it were instrumental, but as it is I can barely enjoy it because it sounds like the lyrics were improvised on the spot. You'll say lyrics aren't the point of Black Keys's specific brand of juke garage blues, and fair enough, but, I mean, these make your average Fat Possum also-ran sound like Balzac.

I guess I just don't see why a band like Best Coast, with all their bone-throwing to foot-tapping hip swingers (who prefer their vocals obscured by cowardly reverb, anyway) can't ALSO feature lyrics as devastatingly great as Simon Joyner's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIR5ps8usuo

does anyone not want to grow up and be leonard cohen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_223jKXKgQ

p.s. new album is predictably dope as hell.

Meantime:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0413-cohen-verdict-20120413,0,3990744.story

oh no biggie, my manager threatens to kill me all the time! come on, leonard.

she looks like a GOP lawyer.

Also: this man is an asshole:

http://www.lowtimespodcast.com/the-insufferable-adam-cohen/

Which man, the author or the subject?

This is brilliant:

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2012/pc/pod-v-29031207m26stjmsquiz2-pid0-446376_audio.mp3

It's a clip from an LC competition ("Knowin' your Cohen") held on Ireland's RTE 1. The contestants are hopeless.

Hey how's that Isle of Wight reissue thingy with the DVD? Want it but it's 'spensive

The cd is good - you get the concert in full, with great sound.

The dvd - not so much... It's a standard Murray Lerner botch job. Most of the songs don't appear and those that do are edited down. Instead you get a few dull interview clips (Joan Baez...) and some footage of the festival

Thanks dude. That sounds about right.

seeing leonard tonight at home.

You paid the Kickstarter to get him to play your living room?

That was, what, $500? Deep pockets!

"Hello, I'm Leonard. What do you have in the way of snacks?"

magnificent live performer

"Any tea? Oranges even? From China?"

Really wanted to ee him in Cicago last week but wasn't around. 3.5 hiur show.

That's because he sings very slowly.

(sorry for the typos above)

3.5 hrs

how was it
other than in length

210 minutes

Does he still recite a couplet from the song he's about to sing before it starts?

what insights did you glean
about the soul of a poet

Does he still recite a couplet from the song he's about to sing before it starts?

― 2 Chain Pizzas (to go) (Eazy), Thursday, November 29, 2012 12:36 AM (9 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he did that a bunch, as well as some poetry. it was awesome.

i love the bootleg where he intros sisters of mercy w/ an improv -- "i love to spend the night with two girlssssss...it's better than one ... and it's better than none."

has he acknowledegd that democracy is not coming to the USA?

in a brief powerpoint presentation

HEH. HEH HEH. THE MONKEY.

he has a song where he talks about rosicrucianism and it was the only place or time or association i have with that word and then last weekend i was reading something and it mentioned rosicrucians ('money', maybe? now i cant remember where) and i was caught off-guard, i think i half-thought leonard cohen had made them up

they can give you back your hope

recent songs is a masterpiece, I am a little in love tbh, what an amazing album that I have overlooked for all these years

this is has been one of several nights recently when I have gotten a little drunk and put on some leonard cohen and marvel at the man

"The Window," "Ballad of the Absent Mare," and the rest. It's really the bridge between his early style and his mature style.

In the sleevenotes of this album Cohen thanks his mother, "for reminding me of the kind of music she loved before she died"

tonite is i'm your man and various positions, these are so amazing despite their imperfections, the title track on im your man and everybody knows and then dance me to th end of love are just so perfect

oh shit and then coming back to you

everything is all so good, wow leonard you've been there all along and I've finally noticed

:-)

when I saw him the 2nd time in london he had a few various positions songs in his set inc. night comes on!

marcos if you haven't already you need to hear the field commander cohen album