Bashir's Michael Jackson circus......

I think by any standard that's a pretty weird thing to do - certainly unhealthy for children psychologically - there are very few socio-cultural (abject poverty, for example) circumstances where that's acceptable.

Ben: they aren't the sole measure, but when it comes to music, for me that's a massive part of it. Certainly it's a criteria for calling anyone a "genius" (a term I also cringe at using - hell, I don't even believe there's such a thing as "talent"...)

Very sound reasoning, Shakey, but I've since lost interest in the debate, nor relish the notion of being further branded as a hate-monger.

Hmmmm....well, I didn't *KNOW* Charles Manson either, but I think it's pretty safe to assume he's a crazed wing nut....but I guess I'm just a slave to the media that way.

i do actually seriously think that the judgment whether someone is fit to look after children shd be left to something more substantial than the mass TV audience of a piece of rubbishy tabloid television, especially when the presence of camera/interviewer etc, and the stress of the specific interview situation, may be the actual cause of (apparently relevant) oddity of behaviour

I don't give a fukcing shit about either michael jax0n or m4rtin bashir, for the rekkid.

I remember a thread about whether there is such a thing as talent, but I can't find it...

"Come on, you think Quincy Jones and Berry Gordy could have made just anyone into Michael Jackson? "

Not just anybody, but somebody else? Sure. Why not? Star-making machinery is uber-powerful.

alex, manson was tried and convicted in a court of law not by a television audience based on one TV programme

Oh that's right.....we only got wind of Jackson's weirdness this week. Prior to his chat with Bashir, everything was perfectly rosey and wonderful at Neverland, with no black clouds on the horizon at all.

Also, Manson didn't have the financial means to hire legal representation of the same might that Jackson entertains.

So everyone who's famous in the industry is there because they really are the most talented people around? Not anyone could "be" Michael Jackson, you're right. You need someone especially twisted to "be" Michael Jackson. In that respect, you're right. But truly, is Britney Spears so incredibly talented that what she does no one else who's been trained since birth to do what she does couldn't do it? Or for that matter, be better at whatever it is that Britney Spears does?

Of course media is "uber-powerful". As it has proven time and time again, it can shove crap on society that it doesn't want, until through repetition, it accepts it (eg, Limp Bizkit). That doesn't mean Michael Jackson is devoid of talent or ability, but to believe that he's the only person who could have sung those songs and danced like that is absurd. Perhaps they wouldn't have sold 25 million units and made 15 minute music videos, but they could and would have been successful.

-
Alan

-
Alan

I can point you to numerous psychological studies that conclude that children who consistently sleep w/adults (usually their parents, but I'm sure it applies to non-family members even moreso) past the age of 4 or so demonstrate various developmental/emotional problems. Let me know if you want me to look some up.

and i have a friend who is 44 and great with kids who i totally trust and my kid likes him, and mom and pop have to go off somewhere but not with kid bcz of school, and my pal babysits - except my kid has a nightmare and climbs into bed with my pal

Q: should i worry about this?
A: it depends...

why i objected to the original question = it's just way too vague to make any kind of sensible judgement, despite alex's increasingly dotty frothing

Don't be so sure.
I know someone who served 12 years in prison for being at the scene of a crime and attempting to help the person.
Obviously, he is black.

When I start dottily frothing, you'll fuckin' KNOW IT, mate!

Frankly, no.

My children are not allowed out of the Skinner box.

http://sfgate.com/gallery/pod/

"Warrant Issued for Jackson's Arrest" - 751 related stories