Arabic music (not elsewhere classified)

The way the song unfolds and builds is just impeccable. I like the way the lines get repeated and there is a different melody for each line (is there?), which incidentally may mean that this is following a relatively classical sort of approach to song structure. If I remember my Ali Jihad Racy.

I'm pretty sure he writes most of his own material, incidentally.

Not that it's considered polite to mention such things on ILM.

Listening again: these rhythms feel soooooo comfortable to me and they have from the beginning as far as I can remember. I may not actually dance to this, but I definitely dance inside, and it's hard not imagine some sort of movement, though I don't think I'm quite up to doing what the music asks for. Too bad the audio is even worse than what I have on cassette.

Love the seemingly compulsive ornamentation on the keyboard parts too.

You guys have no ears!

I realize abuse is not actual helpful, but come on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4fO5NYfck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4fO5NYfck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4fO5NYfck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4fO5NYfck

It's a shame the way the distinctive Arab sounding (monophonic? I think it's monophonic) chorus came to dominate so much of this music. I'd probably listen to far more Arabic music if it weren't for this chorus sound being all over the place. Right now I am checking out clips from some Sabah and Wadi el Safi CDs. I love the lead vocals. I like the material being sung. But the choirs are kind of annoying. It's not that I can't tolerate them, but I don't need to hear dozens or hundreds of albums with that same sound. And if it's so essential, why did Oum Kalthoum successfully do without it for most of her career?

If I were the Arabic Music Czar. . .

Way to ruin a lot of great music, guys!

This is the sound that has pretty much dominated Arabic popular music since, at least in Egypt (but Egypt tends to export the most music to the rest of the Arab world). I'm pretty sure this track is from the original "new sound" album. This is the sound that initially drew me to Arabic music, really, although I pretty immediately liked some other things once exposed to them (not Oum Kalthoum though).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FUb4PomhOI

I find rmi3000's channel fascinating because it covers the early history of "new sound" which is where my personal history with Arabic music begins (give or taking a very small amount of dabbling before that).

Just kinda lazily wrapping up loose ends here, I think.

One of my personal nicknames for this music at the time I was listening to a ton of it was "clap clap music."

Well then, here's Milhem Baraket performing what I'm pretty sure is just a song everybody covers, but I'm not sure exactly how old it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvFuNdTGki8

a song everybody covers

Every Lebanese male singer anyway.

I mentioned Nour Mehanna upthread, but I never linked to any yootoobs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91XirXm2t3o

Pretty amazing vocalist. (Syrian.)

Also does stuff like this, and various others points in between a more classical/traditionalist approach and pop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3Q_113ENN0

Lebanon 80's Top 100 Arabic Hits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0SxMRLcdjc

I recognize #39 (in fact, I wish I knew who it was), so it was still kicking around on mixes in the first half of the 90s.

I love it when Rudipherous talks to itself.

It's sad that no one else here (including me) knows anything about this music to converse with him. I wish more folks familiar with Arabic music who could converse in English knew about this board.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128431817

Fairuz from Lebanon on NPR

And a Radio Lebanon dj's summer faves on NPR (well, a story about one, and a listing of others)!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128668709&ps=cprs

She still refuses interviews

Pretty sure I've seen recent interviews with her.

Anyway, curmudgeon, don't worry. I have the music itself, though it would be nice to know more about it, just on a basic "what is this song so I can look for a better copy of it of some sort" kind of way. It's funny that I'm all excited to find a song like that Milhem Barakat song on youtube after all these years, only to be met by silence here when I share it. But it's okay. I have no doubts about the song.

The weird thing for me in hearing that Barakat song is how his intonation and scale-climbing at the very beginning reminds me vaguely of some cantors I have heard in synagogues. Middle East conflicts will go on and on but at the risk of sounding cliched, the peoples share certain cultural similarities.

He's a Christian, like a lot of prominent Lebanese singers, so that strand of liturgical tradition (probably the Maronite church specifically) would be a source for him. I'm not sure if that's closer to Jewish cantorial tradition than Qur'anic recitation (etc.), but possibly. Let me mention again that those Ghada Shbeir recordings Syriac liturgical music are worth hearing (and some of this music is clearly a source for Lebanese popular music, or shares a common source).

Interesting. Thanks.

Rudipherous: As far as I know, that Milhem Barakat song you posted a few days ago (يا عين صبى دمع) is an original of his.

Thanks. What would an English transliteration of that title look like (roughly)?

Oh wait, that one. I think the one at the beginning is traditional, but the other one they go into is his. You are talking about the last Barakat clip I posted? There's a mawwal, then there's a song I recognize from other singers (and it sort of goes back and forth between mawwal and the song, which is how the song goes anyway), then it goes into another song that I think I have heard on one of his tapes before (and which sounds like it's in his style). But for all I know, that first song is his too. I just know I've heard George Wassouf sing it (and it seems odd to me that he'd cover a Barakat song since they are more like competitors, where covering Oum Kalthoum or Warda songs makes more sense since they are clearly in another league) as well as another Lebanese singer whose name is escaping me (maybe another George).

On here: http://www.maqam.com/store/p/1358-Sahra-Ataba-Mijana.html

Oh Eye, Shedder of Tears = يا عين صبى دمع

Yeah the first part is a traditional extolling the virtues and beauty of Beirut, the real song doesn't start til the real drums kick in. As for Georges Wassouf's cover, I'm not familiar with it, I do know Ilyas Nakhla had a pretty popular cover.

Also, for some reason I am really digging Georges Wassouf - Allah Kareem (الله كريم - جورج وسوف) even though last year I couldn't stand the song when half the taxi drivers and half the satellite channels were playing it nonstop. Dunno why, can't really explain it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jPoSDffKWk

Can anyone give me a starting point (and maybe a bit of background for her deification) for Kalthoum? I'm sure there's plenty of stuff already in the thread, but hey I'm lay-Z.

Here's a starting point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYH1GzFZOkw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLmDUk4g7xg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-ne4kVWnY

The Oum Kalthoum thread:

Oum Kalthoum, Om Kolthom, Om Kalsoum, Omm Kalsoum, Omme Kolsoum, Oom Koolsum, Oum Kalthoum, Oum Kalthum, Oum Kalsoum, Oum Kaltsoum, Oum Kolthoum, Oum Koulsoum, Oum Kulthum, Oum Kulthume, Um Kalthoum,

My favorite CD to recommend as an introduction is Robaeyat El Khayam, but I've yet to have anyone I recommend it to return as a grateful new convert.

As for her deification, a lot of it has to do with her having an incredibly powerful and expressive voice, and her great facility in improvisation. I don't think I've just been brain-washed, she really towers over just about all the competition. She is the embodiment of a certain form of Arab musical ideal, I think. (She also, of course, got to work with the best composers and musicians.)

For discussion of the overall picture, Virginia Louise Danielson's book on Oum Kalthoum is worth checking out (or if that's too much, try one of the shorter articles of hers that will turn up online).

http://www.afropop.org/multi/interview/ID/73/Virginia+Danileson+on+Umm+Kulthum

Thanks for that. I think the main reason I've not been struck by her is that I have no great love of the human voice compared to other instruments.

In that case you might be more interested in her later recordings, which tended to have lengthy instrumental sections. Still, the focus of the overall work is going to be on the vocals.

Also, you might want to consider Ana Fe Entezarak (lots of possible spellings as with everything else) because of the amount of interplay with the accompaniment. I wouldn't go as far as saying that they are equally in the foreground as her vocals, but there's a lot of instrumental work in that recording that stands out.

Or you might want to go for instrumental recordings of her songs, to at least get a sense of the material. The best instrumental versions I've heard are by her violinist Ahmed el Hifnawi. This CD in particular:

https://www.hollywoodmusiccenter.com/productDetails.php?1=1&userId=X2xG6qM7tL9vM3iA&productId=1316&language=english&

Or you might want to not bother if you aren't big on vocalists.

Also, I won't to go back and say it's not just her improvisatory skill but her mastery in general of phrasing, ornamentation, etc.

Wait, you are Rockist Scientist? Or do you both just have very similar tastes/posting styles?

Hahaha. Yes, this is the new Rockist Scientist screen name. I think it's probably permanent.

Oh lots of things make sense now. Did you move from Chicago to New Mexico then? that's interesting.

I moved to New Mexico, but I've never even been to Chicago. (It was Philadelphia.)

Incidentally, I even made a note in my profile about my name change this time, so this was all very above board.

George Wassouf is a difficult subject for me. He was one of the first Arab singers I clicked with in a big way, but I tended to already not like his newer music as much as his older music when I was just getting started listening. Then I got a clearer idea of what a technically good singer is in this context, and maybe partly because of that I drifted further away. I have to admit I was influenced by various Arabs I discussed these things with online. People (muso people anyway) who know about this music seem to really hate him. Yet he's obviously a superstar of some sort. I think I've come back around to enjoying some of his work without qualms. Having said all that though, his voice is really shot at this point.

Ivor, are you an expat from somewhere else, living in Lebanon?

Wait, you are in Africa now, according to your profile, not Lebanon.

Re: Georges Wassouf and popularity. He is mega-popular in the Levant and the Gulf but so are a lot of other bad Arab pop stars like Nancy or Haifa.

You mentioned that his voice is shot, which I totally agree and is also one of the reasons I am digging on the song I posted earlier tonight, Allah Kareem. It's almost the epitome of his style, the over-produced clubby backing track with him drunkenly moaning in the foreground. I love how the backing chorus is totally on-point and then Georges just stumbles on top and crowds them out. Kinda hilarious.

Also, I think a good start for Umm Kulthum is Anta Omri. (ام كلثوم - انت عمري). Clips can be found on youtube but I seriously recommend the 60 minute version that is easy to find on cd. It's a good demonstration of her vocal talent, power, and interplay with the chorus and backing musicians. Also, I'm spelling out everything in Arabic for youtube searching because arabic romanization varies from writer to writer.

Rudipherous: I've only spent a few weeks in Lebanon but have lived for years in the region in various places so am familiar with a bunch of styles found in the Arab world though not as familiar as I should be, sadly. I need to change my profile now, though, as I'm currently in DC.

Also, I'm spelling out everything in Arabic for youtube searching because arabic romanization varies from writer to writer.

Good idea. I've learned to try out the Arabic labels in youtube searches, once I've found an artist I want to hear.

I've said before, but I prefer the studio version of Inta Omri, which is inexplicably difficult to find on CD. I don't think it's a piece that really demonstrates what she's about as a singer. It seems more about Abdel Wahab, than Oum Kalthoum.

I can see your point about the GW song in the abstract, but it doesn't change my level of enjoyment any. The GW I got into initially was mostly live recordings, many of them early.

I'm not saying I like this (it pretty much runs against my taste on every level), but I'm drawn to it, or at least the album cover (seen on the related videos on the right):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTxHwdpUbd4

Pretty much "mook house" with standard current Arab pop vocals overtop.

this song has been my jam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egXdSgF3qk8

the original blog post where i read about dina alieva calls it "MUSLIM TRANCE," but she's from chechnya, so i guess that's eastern european not arabic? here's where i discovered the track:

http://dismagazine.com/blog/3674/global-wav-muslim-trance-superstar/

i need more stuff like this!

Thanks for posting that. I don't know anything about Chechen music, but I definitely hear a continuity with Arabic/Turkish music in the rhythms. Maybe not so much in the melody or the pitch and timbre of the vocals? I can't tell the age of the singer, but to me she has the voice of a girl, but maybe that's just the vocal convention?