maybe catwoman as fellow vigilante minus the "rules" batman assigns to himself? could work...
― ryan, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:02 (fifteen years ago) link
otoh consider the villains they've already run through - Ras Al Ghul and the Scarecrow were not really obvious villain choices for the first one - its possible they could do something interesting with one of the more minor ones without veering into completely unbelievable superpower territory
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:03 (fifteen years ago) link
Shoot forward in time a few years to make Gordon's kids a little older and go the Batgirl route?
― Pancakes Hackman, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:05 (fifteen years ago) link
Definitely out: Clayface, Killer Croc. Most other villains could be reworked without too much difficulty into a pseudo-realistic framework.
― chap, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:05 (fifteen years ago) link
clayface is the only monstrous sfx villain i can see working in this - get ron perlman back
― and what, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:09 (fifteen years ago) link
^^^yeah I can see Clayface working actually and he's one of my favorites but seems kinda like a long-shot
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:13 (fifteen years ago) link
Before DC fucked it up, they set up Catwoman as the self-proclaimed protector of a slummy section of Gotham, occasionally banging heads with Dick Tracy-ish crime folks, and also engaging in a little theft now & then (for the thrill of it).
― David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:14 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, A Cooke-inspired Catwoman could be really fun, but again it wouldn't fit the whole 'I AM THINKING VERY SERIOUSLY ABOUT POWER AND FEAR' deal that Nolan has set up.
― Oilyrags, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:16 (fifteen years ago) link
was Karl Rove a villain in the comics? What's his origin?
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:18 (fifteen years ago) link
A Cooke-inspired Catwoman could be really fun, but again it wouldn't fit the whole 'I AM THINKING VERY SERIOUSLY ABOUT POWER AND FEAR' deal that Nolan has set up.
Seriously? For me, that version of Catwoman & Gotham Central are the closest the funny books have come to the feel & tenor of the Nolan flicks.
― David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:20 (fifteen years ago) link
that reminds me - the whole subplot about the weaselly guy revealing Batman's identity, that was totally unnecessary. Other unnecessary things that should've been cut:
- super-CSI sequence where Batman contaminates the crime scene to recreate the ballistics from that shell in the wall (what exactly was the point of that anyway?) - opening bit with the drug deal and the pseudo-Batmen
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:21 (fifteen years ago) link
point of ballistics was supposedly to get fingerprints off the shattered bullet, but then if he was leaving fingerprints on bullets why not elsewhere? unless he loaded the gun at home before he put his gloves on (did he even generally wear gloves i can't even remember?!)
supposedly this gave batman a name for the joker (thomas schwinn? schmidt?) but then later gordon (i think) said "we have no idea who this guy is!" so yeah wtf really i dunno.
― ledge, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Eh, who says it was the Joker who loaded the gun? (Melvin White was the name of the guy with said apartment.)
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:25 (fifteen years ago) link
I guess you're right, David, but "Selina's Big Score" for example works so well because it's really just a Jim Thompson type story. It hardly needs to be in the Batverse at all, that's just a hook for sales, and IMO, it really benefits from not having Wayne show up at all, especially in his longjohns. And if we go that route in the movies we probably end up with Halle Berry again.
― Oilyrags, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:25 (fifteen years ago) link
opening bit with the drug deal and the pseudo-Batmen
Nah, I liked that. You needed a cool but low key action scene to reintroduce Batman, plus it set up the effect Bats was having on the citizens of Gotham. Also, the Scarecrow's cameo was a really nice touch, it added to the sense of these characters inhabiting a living, densely populated universe. You got the impression it wasn't the first time Crane had escaped and been recaptured.
― chap, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:26 (fifteen years ago) link
xxp and he was a paranoid schizophrenic the joker bumped into in arkham? ok makes sense.
point of pseudo batmen was just for the "what makes you so different?" ooh psyche line. plus, hey lookit, scarecrow is still around. xp.
― ledge, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:27 (fifteen years ago) link
was that really Scarecrow in that opening scene...? I couldn't tell
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:28 (fifteen years ago) link
That was him.
― Oilyrags, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:28 (fifteen years ago) link
hmmm melvin white why does that sound familiar
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:29 (fifteen years ago) link
Yeah, that was him -- takes the mask off and behold, Cilian Murphy.
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:29 (fifteen years ago) link
It wasn't Joker's fingerprint, it was the fingerprint of the guy whose apartment Joker tied the cops up in and left the gun and the windowshade on a timer set up.
― Pancakes Hackman, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:29 (fifteen years ago) link
ah!
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:30 (fifteen years ago) link
who is btw the same guy that Dent threatens in the street after the mayor shooting - the one with Rachel Dawes on his nametag.
― Roz, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:34 (fifteen years ago) link
ah, i wondered where he sprang from. where did he spring from? the joker in police uniform fired the shot, right? then it was all chaos.
― ledge, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:35 (fifteen years ago) link
that's what I thought, I just wasn't sure - he looked different (hair shorter? less collagen?) or something
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:36 (fifteen years ago) link
On the 'bits it could've done without' tip - Gordon faking his own death for no particular reason.
― chap, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:39 (fifteen years ago) link
And if we go that route in the movies we probably end up with Halle Berry again.
Wasn't the HalleCat based on some off-the-wall Egyptian super-totem bullshit (as opposed to cat burglar w/ pointy mask ears bullshit)? They'd have to leap through some ridiculous hoops to get to that point.
Set up Catwoman as some phianthropic Robin Hood type more interested in fighting social ills than actual crime -- she robs from purportedly sketchy businessfolk / spice dealers to help support her neglected area of the city (anonymousish donations to homeless shelters / health clinics / &c). Batusi comes along for some reason -- catches her mid-burgle the least ridiculous notion I can think of; probably stealing from Wayne Enterprises -- and then Stuff Happens. Raises the sort of ham-fisted ethical dillemas ground down from the 1st movie, adds a boner component, and keeps things relatively grounded. And allows for more heist scenes!
― David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:40 (fifteen years ago) link
the real unneccessary CGI scene was the 'white-eyed' batman in the building site in the end. didn't work at all, and was completely at odds with the other subplots going on around it.
― darraghmac, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:40 (fifteen years ago) link
x-x-post -- Protecting his family, doncha know. (At least that was the reason his character gave.)
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:40 (fifteen years ago) link
BTW, Dan Perry might like to know that a GIS of "catwoman" turns up a pic of Halle Berry cupping her breasts.
― David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:42 (fifteen years ago) link
Hey, I'd watch it! I'm just not sure Nolan would want to make it.
― Oilyrags, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:44 (fifteen years ago) link
can a bunch of dudes talk about catwoman casting without devolving into sleaze?
i'd vote for fairuza balk.
― Edward III, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:45 (fifteen years ago) link
xpost apparently not
lolz @ "boner component"
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:46 (fifteen years ago) link
Rachel Dawes' twin sister seeking revenge?
― Oilyrags, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:46 (fifteen years ago) link
i'd vote for fairuza balk
Good call. Maybe Christina Ricci.
― chap, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:47 (fifteen years ago) link
this did seem sorta pointless (why was concealing his identity as the driver important...?) but otoh I loved the scene where Gordon shows up at his house and his wife slaps him
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:47 (fifteen years ago) link
re: protecting his family, uh why wouldn't his family already be under super high-security protection...?
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:48 (fifteen years ago) link
He could've at least got someone he trusted (like, say, Batman) to tell his folks what the score was.
― chap, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:51 (fifteen years ago) link
TRUST NO ONE
― David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:52 (fifteen years ago) link
Actually I was trying to figure out who he did tell, if anyone. (I presume that the van detail that day didn't involve them going "Yeah, get that driver in the fetish outfit.")
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 31 July 2008 16:53 (fifteen years ago) link
one problem with catwoman - has christian bale ever demonstrated any sexual chemistry with a woman?
― Edward III, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:00 (fifteen years ago) link
Does Jared Leto count?
― David R., Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:00 (fifteen years ago) link
he had a tender physical interaction with his mom
― and what, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:01 (fifteen years ago) link
oh yeah what was that bullshit with the "i need an alibi, i'll just go yacthing with the entire russian ballet"?
― ledge, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:01 (fifteen years ago) link
ahh that was funny.
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:02 (fifteen years ago) link
I'm kinda stuck on the fairuza concept now and would be disappointed if it were anybody else. let the write-in campaign begin.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/156/353415499_de233a5d4c.jpg?v=0
― Edward III, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:03 (fifteen years ago) link
she should play harley quinn
― and what, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:06 (fifteen years ago) link
eh but harley requires the Joker
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:09 (fifteen years ago) link
or they could just bypass all that and go straight to the poison ivy subplot. who of course would be played by
http://www.carrollsweb.com/rockndog/ivy.jpg
― Edward III, Thursday, 31 July 2008 17:12 (fifteen years ago) link