Batman carries on beginning in ... The Dark Knight

Now, how are they going to fit a gritty, real, Robin into this Bat-verse?

Hopefully not at all.

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how the Penguin can play in any half-way realistic scenario. Goes for a lot of Bat-villains, which may limit how far this series can go.

this is definitely OTM - altho I thought Burton did a great job with DeVito in Batman Returns.

and yes plz no Robin

I think someone mentioned it before, but maybe they go the precocious-youth-gone-wild route, and make the potential Robin into an unwanted follower / acolyte (like the dudes in the hockey gear in TDK) that Bats decides to either set straight or actually train (for whatever reason --likes the cut of his jib / wants to get some booty)?

And then you cast Shia LeBouef. :p

But Nolan probably felt that the transformation of Dent from hero to monster was key to the whole thing...

He's said that he wanted to make this film stand on its own after thinking about going a more-than-one-movie arc, and I'd say he's aware that it's a bit of a squash. Even so, and especially with my rewatch last night (having that entire closing scene film for IMAX makes it incredibly operatic), there's a power to it that is starting to gel for me -- thinking especially of the utterly grotesque moment when Dent talks about what is fair, barking the line and making his disfigured side of his face seem all that much more monstrously alien.

And then you cast Shia LeBouef. :p

And his specially trained batmonkeys on vines.

Bats decides to either set straight or actually train (for whatever reason --likes the cut of his jib / wants to get some booty)

Might be able to tie it in with his argument about wanting to give up the job and feeling that, post-Rachel/Dent/Joker, there's no way it can be fully given up.

And then there's the booty, yes.

With Robin, you could do all that, and even make the gay subtext overt, but the costume everyone recognises is still ridiculous, and he's drawing down the power of . . a seasonal songbird.

Batman and Ratman

Maybe it's just me, but I can't see how the Penguin can play in any half-way realistic scenario. Goes for a lot of Bat-villains, which may limit how far this series can go.

-- Soukesian, Thursday, 31 July 2008 15:39 (4 minutes ago) Link

I agree. I think they've sort of hit the wall for Batman as social commentary/crime drama with this one. Like I said when I suggested a Man-Bat/Catwoman/Killer Croc/Hugo Strange plot, it would be a massive shift in tone.

-- Oilyrags, Thursday, 31 July 2008 15:41 (2 minutes ago) Link

you realize we're talking about a movie where a billionaire dresses up like a bat and seriously calls himself batman

catwoman would be the logical next step. there's so much sexual tension to be exploited in that pairing.

you realize we're talking about a movie where a billionaire dresses up like a bat and seriously calls himself batman

All part of the joy.

Will Halle get a second chance?

xpost

Catwoman seems like a logical choice (esp now w/Dawes dead)

but what about BATZARRO lolz

I'm in favour of Catwoman - it would be great if it was a relatively small-scale ninety minuter just focusing on the weird relationship between the two characters.

maybe catwoman as fellow vigilante minus the "rules" batman assigns to himself? could work...

otoh consider the villains they've already run through - Ras Al Ghul and the Scarecrow were not really obvious villain choices for the first one - its possible they could do something interesting with one of the more minor ones without veering into completely unbelievable superpower territory

Shoot forward in time a few years to make Gordon's kids a little older and go the Batgirl route?

Definitely out: Clayface, Killer Croc. Most other villains could be reworked without too much difficulty into a pseudo-realistic framework.

clayface is the only monstrous sfx villain i can see working in this - get ron perlman back

^^^yeah I can see Clayface working actually and he's one of my favorites but seems kinda like a long-shot

maybe catwoman as fellow vigilante minus the "rules" batman assigns to himself? could work...

Before DC fucked it up, they set up Catwoman as the self-proclaimed protector of a slummy section of Gotham, occasionally banging heads with Dick Tracy-ish crime folks, and also engaging in a little theft now & then (for the thrill of it).

Yeah, A Cooke-inspired Catwoman could be really fun, but again it wouldn't fit the whole 'I AM THINKING VERY SERIOUSLY ABOUT POWER AND FEAR' deal that Nolan has set up.

was Karl Rove a villain in the comics? What's his origin?

A Cooke-inspired Catwoman could be really fun, but again it wouldn't fit the whole 'I AM THINKING VERY SERIOUSLY ABOUT POWER AND FEAR' deal that Nolan has set up.

Seriously? For me, that version of Catwoman & Gotham Central are the closest the funny books have come to the feel & tenor of the Nolan flicks.

that reminds me - the whole subplot about the weaselly guy revealing Batman's identity, that was totally unnecessary. Other unnecessary things that should've been cut:

- super-CSI sequence where Batman contaminates the crime scene to recreate the ballistics from that shell in the wall (what exactly was the point of that anyway?)
- opening bit with the drug deal and the pseudo-Batmen

point of ballistics was supposedly to get fingerprints off the shattered bullet, but then if he was leaving fingerprints on bullets why not elsewhere? unless he loaded the gun at home before he put his gloves on (did he even generally wear gloves i can't even remember?!)

supposedly this gave batman a name for the joker (thomas schwinn? schmidt?) but then later gordon (i think) said "we have no idea who this guy is!" so yeah wtf really i dunno.

Eh, who says it was the Joker who loaded the gun? (Melvin White was the name of the guy with said apartment.)

I guess you're right, David, but "Selina's Big Score" for example works so well because it's really just a Jim Thompson type story. It hardly needs to be in the Batverse at all, that's just a hook for sales, and IMO, it really benefits from not having Wayne show up at all, especially in his longjohns. And if we go that route in the movies we probably end up with Halle Berry again.

opening bit with the drug deal and the pseudo-Batmen

Nah, I liked that. You needed a cool but low key action scene to reintroduce Batman, plus it set up the effect Bats was having on the citizens of Gotham. Also, the Scarecrow's cameo was a really nice touch, it added to the sense of these characters inhabiting a living, densely populated universe. You got the impression it wasn't the first time Crane had escaped and been recaptured.

xxp and he was a paranoid schizophrenic the joker bumped into in arkham? ok makes sense.

point of pseudo batmen was just for the "what makes you so different?" ooh psyche line. plus, hey lookit, scarecrow is still around. xp.

was that really Scarecrow in that opening scene...? I couldn't tell

That was him.

hmmm melvin white why does that sound familiar

Yeah, that was him -- takes the mask off and behold, Cilian Murphy.

point of ballistics was supposedly to get fingerprints off the shattered bullet, but then if he was leaving fingerprints on bullets why not elsewhere? unless he loaded the gun at home before he put his gloves on (did he even generally wear gloves i can't even remember?!)

It wasn't Joker's fingerprint, it was the fingerprint of the guy whose apartment Joker tied the cops up in and left the gun and the windowshade on a timer set up.

ah!

who is btw the same guy that Dent threatens in the street after the mayor shooting - the one with Rachel Dawes on his nametag.

ah, i wondered where he sprang from. where did he spring from? the joker in police uniform fired the shot, right? then it was all chaos.

that's what I thought, I just wasn't sure - he looked different (hair shorter? less collagen?) or something

On the 'bits it could've done without' tip - Gordon faking his own death for no particular reason.

And if we go that route in the movies we probably end up with Halle Berry again.

Wasn't the HalleCat based on some off-the-wall Egyptian super-totem bullshit (as opposed to cat burglar w/ pointy mask ears bullshit)? They'd have to leap through some ridiculous hoops to get to that point.

Set up Catwoman as some phianthropic Robin Hood type more interested in fighting social ills than actual crime -- she robs from purportedly sketchy businessfolk / spice dealers to help support her neglected area of the city (anonymousish donations to homeless shelters / health clinics / &c). Batusi comes along for some reason -- catches her mid-burgle the least ridiculous notion I can think of; probably stealing from Wayne Enterprises -- and then Stuff Happens. Raises the sort of ham-fisted ethical dillemas ground down from the 1st movie, adds a boner component, and keeps things relatively grounded. And allows for more heist scenes!

the real unneccessary CGI scene was the 'white-eyed' batman in the building site in the end. didn't work at all, and was completely at odds with the other subplots going on around it.

x-x-post -- Protecting his family, doncha know. (At least that was the reason his character gave.)

BTW, Dan Perry might like to know that a GIS of "catwoman" turns up a pic of Halle Berry cupping her breasts.

Hey, I'd watch it! I'm just not sure Nolan would want to make it.

can a bunch of dudes talk about catwoman casting without devolving into sleaze?

i'd vote for fairuza balk.

xpost apparently not

lolz @ "boner component"

Rachel Dawes' twin sister seeking revenge?

i'd vote for fairuza balk

Good call. Maybe Christina Ricci.

On the 'bits it could've done without' tip - Gordon faking his own death for no particular reason.

this did seem sorta pointless (why was concealing his identity as the driver important...?) but otoh I loved the scene where Gordon shows up at his house and his wife slaps him

re: protecting his family, uh why wouldn't his family already be under super high-security protection...?