MIA

^ big-budget

this thread makes me want to hear it because skinny puppy has come up a few times! i hope they become a band to namecheck soon

strongo is a big supporter of contenderizer

of course im being a dick -- i posted in a thread just to express annoyance at a circular conversation

dan is treating deej like the gingers were treated in the mia video

open ur eyes sheeple

but the thing with the label of "radical activist" is that it works as a kind of free crit pass (until the ~backlash~ i guess, which would appear to be now) not available to artists without it - talking about politics is automatically a Good Thing (regardless of how well or coherently it's done) whereas talking about love or sex isn't seen to be (no matter how well it's done). i don't like it when people judge based on what something is rather than how that thing is done.

This is because there are literally thousands of artists who bang on about nothing other than love and sex whereas political musicians are few and far between.

(Relatively speaking, that is. I think MIA's political statements are clumsy as hell but no one else had been doing it anywhere near the mainstream. New subject matter is refreshing, the reason people are starting to attack her now is because it's stopped being so).

I like lex's final line but I think he's overstating the free pass. You might get one from Robert Hilburn or (to some extent) Greil Marcus or Christgau, but the average P4K/ILX/blog reader seems to be fairly intolerant of political content - ever since MIA first appeared there's been a significant number of sceptics who liked the music in spite, not because, of what she was saying.

But lex and I are coming from different angles here, so maybe it's like the way conservatives think the media has a liberal bias and liberals think the opposite.

i guess "free crit pass" might mean more "disproportionate crit ATTENTION" - even now, when a ton of critics plain dislike her latest album, she's the hub of conversation (and i admit i'm contributing to this), which i guess is fine until i think about the many similar-but-way-better artists who get none of this attention or conversation, let alone any sort of free pass, just b/c they're not ~*political*~

also dorian, re: your other examples of "political" artists who weren't given as rough a ride as m.i.a. - lol do you really think i'd have been all that accepting of eg the clash or whoever if i'd been alive then? fucking HATE the clash! would've gone in even harder!

You're not the kind of critic I was thinking of, lex - I don't think you're particularly tolerant of politics in music generally. And the Clash were critiqued at the time - if the fuss about MIA's cavalier use of gun/bomb imagery reminds me of anything then it's Nick Kent and Jon Savage's reviews of the second Clash album - but not so savagely.

i think about the many similar-but-way-better artists who get none of this attention or conversation, let alone any sort of free pass, just b/c they're not ~*political*

Dude you are massively overstating the extent to which politics factors into the MIA hype - the buzz around Arular and Kala was almost exclusively round "OMG this album is full of bangers".

she's the hub of conversation (and i admit i'm contributing to this), which i guess is fine until i think about the many similar-but-way-better artists who get none of this attention or conversation, let alone any sort of free pass, just b/c they're not ~*political*~

thing about the "political", lex, is that it's only one way to court controversy and public interest. the artists that get talked about most are the ones who build a story, who keep feeding wood to the fire. in terms of the ability to get tongues wagging, i don't see how maya's political grandstanding is really all that different from britney's titillation/meltdown or lady gaga's art weirdo gender-bending. i mean, britney's collapse seemed less contrived, but it's still just another chapter in a the story that keeps (kept?) her shine up.

i half like the idea that we should concern ourselves only with the music, but it almost never works that way for the more high-profile artists. besides, we know that the construction/manipulation of a public persona can be an interesting form of art in itself. no reason to divorce identity as as art from other forms of artistic output.

OTM. With MIA it's impossible to separate the politics from the personal narrative. As soon as you start talking about her childhood or family - boom - you're straight into politics.

lex, can you name another artist from the past 10 years who got heaps of critical attention/love because of their politics? IMO the past decade has seen a huge marginalisation of political artists (or rather continued it from the mid-90s), which is exactly why MIA stands out.

Dude you are massively overstating the extent to which politics factors into the MIA hype - the buzz around Arular and Kala was almost exclusively round "OMG this album is full of bangers".

wonder if this is a US/UK thing (dunno where you're typing from MDC)? agree that here in the US, maya's press initially focused on the music rather than her politics/persona. there was talk the of latter, but in a distant sort of way, observing the excited chatter overseas, but not delving too deeply into it. otoh, i get the impression that she's a much bigger celebtity in the UK, and that her background and message have been front and center from the beginning.

She's bigger in the US than the UK, much bigger I think, if only for Paper Planes.

lady gaga's art weirdo gender-bending

heh at the start with lady gaga her constant harping on about ~ART ART I AM AN ARTIST I DON'T WEAR PANTS I KNOW WHO WARHOL IS~ with nothing to back it up in the music rubbed me up in the wrong way in EXACTLY the same way as m.i.a. and her "politics". h8 it when i see artists aiming a priori for what they know to be crit/cred catnip. obv gaga actually went on to back it up tho - remarkable how she stepped her game up, i <3 her now but still think the early singles suck.

xps i think m.i.a. is actually way less of a celebrity in the uk - "paper planes" was a slow-burn minor hit but there was nothing similar to the grammys performance to catapult her into the national spotlight - the uk already doesn't care about lil wayne or t.i. so associating with them did nothing for m.i.a.'s profile here

dorian good point re: lack of political artists in this decade, but this is more "less artists are being political", not "political artists are being marginalised" - it seems sometimes that people really want artists to be more politicised than they are.

She wasn't before then, though. When Arular came out, and even when Kala first appeared, she wasn't automatically getting lead reviews, and she's never been a celebrity in the gossip-column sense. I remember reviewing Kala and thinking it was a shame it wasn't going to sell much. Paper Planes changed everything quite late in the day.

IMO the past decade has seen a huge marginalisation of political artists (or rather continued it from the mid-90s), which is exactly why MIA stands out.

was meaning to mention this earlier. the same idea got an airing recently in some pitchfork thread or another (don't wanna dig for it, but it concerned connor oberst joining the arizona boycott). anyway, i agree entirely. we seem recently to have developed this collective, knee-jerk distaste for political discourse in pop music.* i find this dispiriting, and for that reason have been happy to see maya's ascendance as a "political artist".

* and maybe that's why the backlash has been so particularly venomous.

The thing that really sums it up for me is the bit in the Simpsons Movie where Green Day have been playing for three hours and Billie Joe asks for a minute to say something about the environment and everyone boos and shouts, "Preaching!" That, to me, is the story of political pop in the 00s.

That's b/c people who care enough about music to think/write about it have made their peace with the status quo.

this is more "less artists are being political", not "political artists are being marginalised" - it seems sometimes that people really want artists to be more politicised than they are.

again, US/UK, but as much as i hear lefty people my age and younger say they want musicians to express their politics, reactions tend to be harsh when they do. and not "i disagree with you" harsh, but "shut up you corny fuck!" harsh. like all the lolling at bono's political work. i think U2 and bono are awful, but still have huge respect for what he's done with his celebrity, regardless of what his motivations might have been. but i don't see a lot of respect for that kind of heart-on-sleeve actism in ilxor-type fan/critic circles.

admit though that this overinvolved mini culture is a kind of bubble, and it perhaps blinds me to the world outside it...

ha when people in an erykah badu audience shout "preach!" it's a sign of approval and will be accompanied by rapturous cheers, not boos

badu might be a good example actually - i also think new amerykah pt 1 is a landmark album-of-my-lifetime but it got waaaaay more attention because it was political than eg mama's gun or new amerykah pt 2

The Bono hate is widespread - he's the lightning rod for a lot of this stuff and I don't think he's done anything to justify this level of contempt. It's much easier to be the Red Hot Chili Peppers (who also moved their business to the Netherlands for tax reasons) and not give a shit about anything but money than it is to do anything political at all. I'm not saying there aren't many sound criticisms to make of Bono but I think the current antipathy is indicative of something else.

ha when people in an erykah badu audience shout "preach!" it's a sign of approval and will be accompanied by rapturous cheers, not boos

badu might be a good example actually - i also think new amerykah pt 1 is a landmark album-of-my-lifetime but it got waaaaay more attention because it was political than eg mama's gun or new amerykah pt 2

this is a good angle. when talking about the response to politics in music, my frame of reference is largely defined by the american indie/rock/critical community. and it's way too easy to universalize the values of your niche, especially when you rarely venture outside it. reaction to musical politicking might be very different in other circles, but i'd know less about that.

speaking of badu, the recession and the last american election cycle seemed to encourage a wave of political rap and R&B, but i'm not sure yet where that's gonna lead.

"a wave of political rap and R&B"

most of which was sadly shit

90% of verbalized thoughts about politics in any form are sadly shit

I've said it before that if you submitted the wildly contradictory and more problematic lyrics of a less explicitly political artist like, say, Dizzee Rascal to this level of scrutiny it would collapse much faster than MIA's.

"it seems sometimes that people really want artists to be more politicised than they are."

they dont really. in theory, they do, but when they actually get it, it just gets lols (as others have already said). partly cos a lot of the time its not really that good (eg - most of the terrible hip hop songs about obama) or apes long gone political-song tropes, but also cos people are too fucking cynical, think theyre too above it all and too clever for anything that 'believes in something'. the best way to do it now is to either do it from a pretty distant angle, be pretty opaque about it, to the point where its hard to tell if its actually that political or not, or do what mia does/did, which is hide it in lots of seemingly nonsensical lyrics, without being too brazen about it. ie dont show you believe in something TOO much.

most of which was sadly shit

easy to say, but jeezy and badu did well in the recent 05-09 survey

I for one refuse to listen to any new political pop music unless it contains a credible plan for tackling the budget deficit.

...people are too fucking cynical, think theyre too above it all and too clever for anything that 'believes in something'. the best way to do it now is to either do it from a pretty distant angle, be pretty opaque about it, to the point where its hard to tell if its actually that political or not, or do what mia does/did, which is hide it in lots of seemingly nonsensical lyrics, without being too brazen about it. ie dont show you believe in something TOO much.

^ this. and i'm fucking sick of it. so goddam cynical, timid and conservative.

xpost. Which is why it's best when the music itself makes the point - MIA's music is "political" even if you can't understand the lyrics (see also: Public Enemy, Ghost Town, Sandinista!). These days, a political rap over a standard beat is going to struggle.

Talking of records which have avoided punishing scrutiny, Bombs Over Baghdad (Pitchfork's song of the decade no less) is far crasser in its use of political metaphor than anything MIA has done, but I don't remember anyone giving Outkast shit for it. I love that song - I just wonder why people don't question the validity and tact of using aerial bombardment as a metaphor for pulling your "thang".

you can't match a love like mine - it's like tryna rob me with a bb gun
but my love gets it poppin like the taliban
*gunshots*

(the-dream, "sex intelligent")

one of my favourites was NERD saying that lapdance was about politicians. which i thought was pretty wtf/stfu at the time but now im a bit more sympathetic. just cos i like the concept. even though its bullshit. the dream is just wilfully moronic. this thread should be allowed to exist without discussing terius.

i remember when jennifer capriati requested "b.o.b." as her entrance music for a match in miami, because she wanted to "show support for the troops" loooool. in response a tennis columnist sniffed that "capriati's unregenerate vulgarity is the worst-kept secret in the sport"

simply mentioning things that happen to have political significance != making political music. i mean, clipse roll deep like the hutus, but it's ridiculous to say they're making any kind of political point.

rappers love quoting/referencing political stuff, esp when its gruesome/violent (eg - bob, clipse's hutu line, various rappers talking about the taliban), they divorce it from the politics really.

simply mentioning things that happen to have political significance != making political music. i mean, clipse roll deep like the hutus, but it's ridiculous to say they're making any kind of political point.

― good news if you wear cargo shorts (contenderizer), Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:29 AM (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also, water: wet

it's getting old, deej

Aren't Green Day kind of the counter example here? I thought American Idiot was their big 00s political album and people lapped that shit up!

http://www.cokemachineglow.com/record_review/5514/mia-maya-2010

This is a spectacularly vindictive review. It reads like the guy personally detests her.

What about System of a Down? Weren't they supposed to be a political band?

Had you heard of the Armenian Genocide of 1915 before System of a Down told you?

Yeah, Green Day and SOAD are both good examples, though I don't think of them as getting a free pass in these circles. And yeah, I knew nothing about the Armenian genocide before I interviewed SOAD.

This is a spectacularly vindictive review. It reads like the guy personally detests her.

true, but it's also a interesting and insightful piece of criticism. though i strongly disagree with the writer's overall assessment, i enjoyed reading what he had to say. it even helped me understand the album a bit better. which doesn't excuse the raging, misplaced contempt, but everybody's got their axe to grind...

Well it's certainly not dull, but it didn't give me any insight at all, except into the psyche of an angry, angry man.

ok no apologies for linking to HRO for like the third time on this thread, coz this contains the sentence "Wish I had a metaphorical ‘full table.’"

http://altreport.hipsterrunoff.com/2010/07/diplo-goes-on-record-calls-m-i-a-a-lazy-rich-careless-human-being.html

Excellent work shoehorning Dostoevsky and Borges in there, angry young man.