MIA

i.e. paper planes, which is brilliant

Hmm, I actually think she's the elitist but not acting like it. Like, I don't expect most pop stars to be able to back up their politics, but I do expect that from her, since she's smart and savvy. I suppose that's not fair on my part. With all these "she's a pop star!' defenses, I guess I just need to lower my expectations. Which is sad.

what pop/rock/rap stars do you know/like who really back up their politics flawlessly? Im not sure I even know politicians who back up their politics flawlessly.

The only egs I can think of are Billy Bragg and Michael Franti, both of whom routinely dismissed as "worthy". Good luck to anyone trying to find that middleground between worthy-but-dull and fun-but-irresponsible in the current debate.

Dorian OTM throughout here...

That last statement is totally OTM, Dorian. Perhaps this album is a stepping stone toward being as radical or revolutionary as she wants to be. Or maybe the next one will be her Stuart Price collaboration.

xpost - right.

franti = great in interviews, less great to listen to.

Like, I don't expect most pop stars to be able to back up their politics, but I do expect that from her, since she's smart and savvy. I suppose that's not fair on my part. With all these "she's a pop star!' defenses, I guess I just need to lower my expectations. Which is sad.

there's a weird break in the thinking here (no offense). it's like, "i want her to be extremely smart and savvy, so i feel disappointed when she turns out to be less smart and savvy than i'd imagined." the real-world maya is always gonna come up short relative to an idealized image. but maybe it's unfair to blame her audience for the discontinuity. she worked hard to create the persona that she's having trouble living up to.

I don't think she's any less smart and savvy than she's ever been, but I think the intrusion of fame/wealth/parenthood/marriage cannot be ruled out as a distraction.

The odd thing is that this album contains far fewer references to guns/bombs/radical chic than the previous two but because the music's so divisive it's getting all the flak that sceptics have been holding back until now. So she already is moving away from the posturing and foregrounding the personal. But I think she'll have to raise her lyrical game significantly to overcome the backlash, justified or not.

only had it since this afternoon but id say this album is a lot more intimate. the last two songs seem particularly touching and sweet in a way ive not heard from her before, almost as if she was thinking of music of hers that she could or might like to play to her child (not really heard the lyrics on these two properly yet though).

i don't hate m.i.a.'s lyrics! i mean i haven't paid attention to the ones on the latest, and i doubt i will given that i don't intend to listen to it again. the thing i rail against is those lyrics being seen as radical, revolutionary or even all that politically substantive, by her and by those talking about her. some of her lyrics are dumb but she's good at a) nonsense but evocative missy-esque wordplay ("bamboo banga" and "galang"), b) character studies of, yes, displaced people ("10 dollar" and "hussel").

but the thing with the label of "radical activist" is that it works as a kind of free crit pass (until the ~backlash~ i guess, which would appear to be now) not available to artists without it - talking about politics is automatically a Good Thing (regardless of how well or coherently it's done) whereas talking about love or sex isn't seen to be (no matter how well it's done). i don't like it when people judge based on what something is rather than how that thing is done.

to refine what i was saying earlier:

you can attract public attention with bold political provocations, but you risks harsh criticism when you do so. these things are a matched set, and everyone understands the way the relationship works. maya has made an obvious attempt to be politically provocative from day one, and it's worked for her, providing her musical career with a narrative and an aura of significance. it's disingenuous to pretend that she's done this accidentally or without regard to the ways in which others will receive her messages. and it's equally disingenuous to pretend that the negative attention she receives when her political persona shows cracks is somehow more unfair than the (largely) positive attention that she initially received from her faux-radical steez. two sides of the same coin. not saying she deserves the abuse, but it's a natural consequence of the game she's been playing.

i don't like it when people judge based on what something is rather than how that thing is done.

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:50 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest

This.

Plato vs Aristotle.

Argument between contenderizer, titchy, lex and dorian on mia...some kind of nightmare

if only you could wake up

I admit seeing MIA live in Brussels shortly after the London 2005

*waves at Ned* :-)

Hi there! Nath was indeed at said show too.

I don't know why, but I kind of figured the Born Free/NYT article/XXXO series of gestures was MIA clearing room to make her big pop move, using her increased visibility to actually try to reach a lot of the people she had heretofore only sang about. This necessarily means an adjustment in songwriting types--instead of selling the Third World to the indie-rati, she would be selling pop music to the Third World, a pop music of course that would be remade in its image, whcih to me explained the sudden emergence of the massive ego and the equally sudden willingness to paint in broad strokes, and make sweeping generalizations. As far as the affluence angle goes, it may seem jarring to us but it remains to be seen whether it becomes a problem with her "intended audience" (scare quotes bcz I'm not sure whether this is really her intentions or what I'm projecting onto her) (What is known: she definitely is very aware of the dichotomy of advocating for the poor and dispossessed while lounging in luxury--the idiosyncratic album name is due to the fact that it is spelled out in gold bars.)

(of course the fact that she's taking cues from Skinny Puppy kind of undercuts my whole conceit, so...who knows!)

change 'adjustment in songwriting types' to 'shift in lyrical focus'--I really should write my posts out in rough drafts.

if only you could wake up

― da croupier, Wednesday, July 14, 2010 5:30 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if u suggest ban me ill be one step closer...

well keep it up, you're well on your way with this new budget-Jess act

wait Jess and deej aren't the same person? somebody please sb me...!

jess has a monopoly on being bitter???

not sure i buy HI DERE's budget tombot act

Argument between contenderizer, titchy, lex and dorian on mia...some kind of nightmare

deej

coming onto a thread to say "some posters I don't like are having a conversation about something they're interesting, how terrible"

is weak

please don't do that any more

your friend who likes you

ua

guh interested in

lol

Comparing me to Tom when I'm not posting anything like him shows that a) you're reaching and b) you know you're being an annoying dick.

also re: M.I.A. I really don't get why people dislike "Teqkilla" but it's pretty well documented at this point that there are artists who could record themselves farting into a bag and I would be all over it and three albums in I think it's safe to say that M.I.A. has joined this exalted company

that seems to be her career trajectory, no?

dan i'm a little offended.

^ big-budget

this thread makes me want to hear it because skinny puppy has come up a few times! i hope they become a band to namecheck soon

strongo is a big supporter of contenderizer

of course im being a dick -- i posted in a thread just to express annoyance at a circular conversation

dan is treating deej like the gingers were treated in the mia video

open ur eyes sheeple

but the thing with the label of "radical activist" is that it works as a kind of free crit pass (until the ~backlash~ i guess, which would appear to be now) not available to artists without it - talking about politics is automatically a Good Thing (regardless of how well or coherently it's done) whereas talking about love or sex isn't seen to be (no matter how well it's done). i don't like it when people judge based on what something is rather than how that thing is done.

This is because there are literally thousands of artists who bang on about nothing other than love and sex whereas political musicians are few and far between.

(Relatively speaking, that is. I think MIA's political statements are clumsy as hell but no one else had been doing it anywhere near the mainstream. New subject matter is refreshing, the reason people are starting to attack her now is because it's stopped being so).

I like lex's final line but I think he's overstating the free pass. You might get one from Robert Hilburn or (to some extent) Greil Marcus or Christgau, but the average P4K/ILX/blog reader seems to be fairly intolerant of political content - ever since MIA first appeared there's been a significant number of sceptics who liked the music in spite, not because, of what she was saying.

But lex and I are coming from different angles here, so maybe it's like the way conservatives think the media has a liberal bias and liberals think the opposite.

i guess "free crit pass" might mean more "disproportionate crit ATTENTION" - even now, when a ton of critics plain dislike her latest album, she's the hub of conversation (and i admit i'm contributing to this), which i guess is fine until i think about the many similar-but-way-better artists who get none of this attention or conversation, let alone any sort of free pass, just b/c they're not ~*political*~

also dorian, re: your other examples of "political" artists who weren't given as rough a ride as m.i.a. - lol do you really think i'd have been all that accepting of eg the clash or whoever if i'd been alive then? fucking HATE the clash! would've gone in even harder!

You're not the kind of critic I was thinking of, lex - I don't think you're particularly tolerant of politics in music generally. And the Clash were critiqued at the time - if the fuss about MIA's cavalier use of gun/bomb imagery reminds me of anything then it's Nick Kent and Jon Savage's reviews of the second Clash album - but not so savagely.

i think about the many similar-but-way-better artists who get none of this attention or conversation, let alone any sort of free pass, just b/c they're not ~*political*

Dude you are massively overstating the extent to which politics factors into the MIA hype - the buzz around Arular and Kala was almost exclusively round "OMG this album is full of bangers".

she's the hub of conversation (and i admit i'm contributing to this), which i guess is fine until i think about the many similar-but-way-better artists who get none of this attention or conversation, let alone any sort of free pass, just b/c they're not ~*political*~

thing about the "political", lex, is that it's only one way to court controversy and public interest. the artists that get talked about most are the ones who build a story, who keep feeding wood to the fire. in terms of the ability to get tongues wagging, i don't see how maya's political grandstanding is really all that different from britney's titillation/meltdown or lady gaga's art weirdo gender-bending. i mean, britney's collapse seemed less contrived, but it's still just another chapter in a the story that keeps (kept?) her shine up.

i half like the idea that we should concern ourselves only with the music, but it almost never works that way for the more high-profile artists. besides, we know that the construction/manipulation of a public persona can be an interesting form of art in itself. no reason to divorce identity as as art from other forms of artistic output.

OTM. With MIA it's impossible to separate the politics from the personal narrative. As soon as you start talking about her childhood or family - boom - you're straight into politics.

lex, can you name another artist from the past 10 years who got heaps of critical attention/love because of their politics? IMO the past decade has seen a huge marginalisation of political artists (or rather continued it from the mid-90s), which is exactly why MIA stands out.

Dude you are massively overstating the extent to which politics factors into the MIA hype - the buzz around Arular and Kala was almost exclusively round "OMG this album is full of bangers".

wonder if this is a US/UK thing (dunno where you're typing from MDC)? agree that here in the US, maya's press initially focused on the music rather than her politics/persona. there was talk the of latter, but in a distant sort of way, observing the excited chatter overseas, but not delving too deeply into it. otoh, i get the impression that she's a much bigger celebtity in the UK, and that her background and message have been front and center from the beginning.

She's bigger in the US than the UK, much bigger I think, if only for Paper Planes.

lady gaga's art weirdo gender-bending

heh at the start with lady gaga her constant harping on about ~ART ART I AM AN ARTIST I DON'T WEAR PANTS I KNOW WHO WARHOL IS~ with nothing to back it up in the music rubbed me up in the wrong way in EXACTLY the same way as m.i.a. and her "politics". h8 it when i see artists aiming a priori for what they know to be crit/cred catnip. obv gaga actually went on to back it up tho - remarkable how she stepped her game up, i <3 her now but still think the early singles suck.

xps i think m.i.a. is actually way less of a celebrity in the uk - "paper planes" was a slow-burn minor hit but there was nothing similar to the grammys performance to catapult her into the national spotlight - the uk already doesn't care about lil wayne or t.i. so associating with them did nothing for m.i.a.'s profile here

dorian good point re: lack of political artists in this decade, but this is more "less artists are being political", not "political artists are being marginalised" - it seems sometimes that people really want artists to be more politicised than they are.