MIA

sorry, first parag was in response to dorians last post.

x-post Huh? No. But she could be, if she wanted to.

xpost to Josh. That's a criticism I can live with. What I'm saying by quoting those lyrics in my previous point is that I like the fact she's so aware that she can't articulate these points as well as she'd like to - that becomes part of her narrative. Lovalot has the same intent as Steve Earle's John Walker's Blues but because she does it in this condensed, confusingly inflammatory way none of this comes across.

She doesn't have to be the bible, but it's such a big part of who she is as an artist that I wish she'd either step up or step back.

xpost to Titchy. There's no consistency to the attacks on her at all - she's not being accorded the same leeway as another political songwriter OR another rapper. People are applying absurdly high standards that they don't apply to anyone else. If you want really idiotic political lyrics go to XTRMNTR (which I still love anyway).

Well, she is/has been a little more strident than most. And she does seem to like the attention. And she does seem to *react* to the attention. So it's not just dumb or incoherent lyrics, it's those combined with a degree of "look at me." Lady Gaga is full of shit, too, but she's not talking suicide bombers and insurrection. Yet.

I guess I'd like the detractors to quote some examples of her allegedly terribly lyrics. Going back to Kala, I think stuff like Paper Planes, Bamboo Banga, $20 and Bird Flu is fantastically rich, funny and insightful on the subject of developing world aspiration. She writes about that far more than she writes about the Tamil Tigers.

"She doesn't have to be the bible, but it's such a big part of who she is as an artist that I wish she'd either step up or step back."

shes a musician. not a campaigner. nor an activist. she highlights the issues for other people to take notice. which is more than most artists do these days. if you want to learn more about it, listen to bbc world service, google some articles on it. all the criticsm about her not being equipped with enough knowledge is basically a bunch of elitist, snarky people on the net who know fuck all about it anyway who seem to be saying 'oh just stop talking about it, you dont know enough about it, as i - someone who knows even less - am obviously in a good position to judge and quantify'. all very smug and self satisfied.

xpost. Of course she's "look at me". She's a fucking pop star!

re d.levskey: agreed. the lyrics only become "moronic" when you decide you need to argue them down. otherwise they're no worse than most pop.

otoh, the fact that she likes to at least flirt with big statements and serious issues does tend to invite those argumentative responses, you know? of course she doesn't owe her audience a meaningful education in the realities of the sri lankan political situation, but she's the one making an issue of it. maya seems to revel in the attention that her "radical" political provocations earn her, so it's not like she doesn't earn the criticism she gets.

i'm not personally engaged with her political persona, so the whole debate seems a little silly to me. i'm mainly interested in the music and the vocal delivery, and in the lyrics only as a distinctive pop style.

xpost - yeah, she can actually be a great writer at times.

tell me why on the album is sublime btw.

i kinda like it in 128 bit rate lol.

its flawed, but still one of the albums of the year, btw.

and quite easily.

People are applying absurdly high standards that they don't apply to anyone else. If you want really idiotic political lyrics go to XTRMNTR (which I still love anyway).

I think stuff like Paper Planes, Bamboo Banga, $20 and Bird Flu is fantastically rich, funny and insightful on the subject of developing world aspiration. She writes about that far more than she writes about the Tamil Tigers.

Of course she's "look at me". She's a fucking pop star!

― Haunted Clocks For Sale (Dorianlynskey), Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:50 AM (51 seconds ago) Bookmark

O.T.F.M. especially wr2 "the subject of developing world aspirations".

i.e. paper planes, which is brilliant

Hmm, I actually think she's the elitist but not acting like it. Like, I don't expect most pop stars to be able to back up their politics, but I do expect that from her, since she's smart and savvy. I suppose that's not fair on my part. With all these "she's a pop star!' defenses, I guess I just need to lower my expectations. Which is sad.

what pop/rock/rap stars do you know/like who really back up their politics flawlessly? Im not sure I even know politicians who back up their politics flawlessly.

The only egs I can think of are Billy Bragg and Michael Franti, both of whom routinely dismissed as "worthy". Good luck to anyone trying to find that middleground between worthy-but-dull and fun-but-irresponsible in the current debate.

Dorian OTM throughout here...

That last statement is totally OTM, Dorian. Perhaps this album is a stepping stone toward being as radical or revolutionary as she wants to be. Or maybe the next one will be her Stuart Price collaboration.

xpost - right.

franti = great in interviews, less great to listen to.

Like, I don't expect most pop stars to be able to back up their politics, but I do expect that from her, since she's smart and savvy. I suppose that's not fair on my part. With all these "she's a pop star!' defenses, I guess I just need to lower my expectations. Which is sad.

there's a weird break in the thinking here (no offense). it's like, "i want her to be extremely smart and savvy, so i feel disappointed when she turns out to be less smart and savvy than i'd imagined." the real-world maya is always gonna come up short relative to an idealized image. but maybe it's unfair to blame her audience for the discontinuity. she worked hard to create the persona that she's having trouble living up to.

I don't think she's any less smart and savvy than she's ever been, but I think the intrusion of fame/wealth/parenthood/marriage cannot be ruled out as a distraction.

The odd thing is that this album contains far fewer references to guns/bombs/radical chic than the previous two but because the music's so divisive it's getting all the flak that sceptics have been holding back until now. So she already is moving away from the posturing and foregrounding the personal. But I think she'll have to raise her lyrical game significantly to overcome the backlash, justified or not.

only had it since this afternoon but id say this album is a lot more intimate. the last two songs seem particularly touching and sweet in a way ive not heard from her before, almost as if she was thinking of music of hers that she could or might like to play to her child (not really heard the lyrics on these two properly yet though).

i don't hate m.i.a.'s lyrics! i mean i haven't paid attention to the ones on the latest, and i doubt i will given that i don't intend to listen to it again. the thing i rail against is those lyrics being seen as radical, revolutionary or even all that politically substantive, by her and by those talking about her. some of her lyrics are dumb but she's good at a) nonsense but evocative missy-esque wordplay ("bamboo banga" and "galang"), b) character studies of, yes, displaced people ("10 dollar" and "hussel").

but the thing with the label of "radical activist" is that it works as a kind of free crit pass (until the ~backlash~ i guess, which would appear to be now) not available to artists without it - talking about politics is automatically a Good Thing (regardless of how well or coherently it's done) whereas talking about love or sex isn't seen to be (no matter how well it's done). i don't like it when people judge based on what something is rather than how that thing is done.

to refine what i was saying earlier:

you can attract public attention with bold political provocations, but you risks harsh criticism when you do so. these things are a matched set, and everyone understands the way the relationship works. maya has made an obvious attempt to be politically provocative from day one, and it's worked for her, providing her musical career with a narrative and an aura of significance. it's disingenuous to pretend that she's done this accidentally or without regard to the ways in which others will receive her messages. and it's equally disingenuous to pretend that the negative attention she receives when her political persona shows cracks is somehow more unfair than the (largely) positive attention that she initially received from her faux-radical steez. two sides of the same coin. not saying she deserves the abuse, but it's a natural consequence of the game she's been playing.

i don't like it when people judge based on what something is rather than how that thing is done.

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:50 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest

This.

Plato vs Aristotle.

Argument between contenderizer, titchy, lex and dorian on mia...some kind of nightmare

if only you could wake up

I admit seeing MIA live in Brussels shortly after the London 2005

*waves at Ned* :-)

Hi there! Nath was indeed at said show too.

I don't know why, but I kind of figured the Born Free/NYT article/XXXO series of gestures was MIA clearing room to make her big pop move, using her increased visibility to actually try to reach a lot of the people she had heretofore only sang about. This necessarily means an adjustment in songwriting types--instead of selling the Third World to the indie-rati, she would be selling pop music to the Third World, a pop music of course that would be remade in its image, whcih to me explained the sudden emergence of the massive ego and the equally sudden willingness to paint in broad strokes, and make sweeping generalizations. As far as the affluence angle goes, it may seem jarring to us but it remains to be seen whether it becomes a problem with her "intended audience" (scare quotes bcz I'm not sure whether this is really her intentions or what I'm projecting onto her) (What is known: she definitely is very aware of the dichotomy of advocating for the poor and dispossessed while lounging in luxury--the idiosyncratic album name is due to the fact that it is spelled out in gold bars.)

(of course the fact that she's taking cues from Skinny Puppy kind of undercuts my whole conceit, so...who knows!)

change 'adjustment in songwriting types' to 'shift in lyrical focus'--I really should write my posts out in rough drafts.

if only you could wake up

― da croupier, Wednesday, July 14, 2010 5:30 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

if u suggest ban me ill be one step closer...

well keep it up, you're well on your way with this new budget-Jess act

wait Jess and deej aren't the same person? somebody please sb me...!

jess has a monopoly on being bitter???

not sure i buy HI DERE's budget tombot act

Argument between contenderizer, titchy, lex and dorian on mia...some kind of nightmare

deej

coming onto a thread to say "some posters I don't like are having a conversation about something they're interesting, how terrible"

is weak

please don't do that any more

your friend who likes you

ua

guh interested in

lol

Comparing me to Tom when I'm not posting anything like him shows that a) you're reaching and b) you know you're being an annoying dick.

also re: M.I.A. I really don't get why people dislike "Teqkilla" but it's pretty well documented at this point that there are artists who could record themselves farting into a bag and I would be all over it and three albums in I think it's safe to say that M.I.A. has joined this exalted company

that seems to be her career trajectory, no?

dan i'm a little offended.

^ big-budget

this thread makes me want to hear it because skinny puppy has come up a few times! i hope they become a band to namecheck soon

strongo is a big supporter of contenderizer

of course im being a dick -- i posted in a thread just to express annoyance at a circular conversation

dan is treating deej like the gingers were treated in the mia video