how to deal with little monsters

yeah my eyes kinda popped out of my head when I heard that

"but in the long term we're looking around for somewhere else to put her"

Have you looked into L4ur3l Hill, Shakey? That's where my brother and I went to pre-school and it was a really good experience.

we haven't taken a serious look anywhere yet, just compiling a list - need to get on this tho

so the bullies are gone - new school year, my daughter is now one of the oldest in the program (keeping her here while we look around for a real pre-school, so far fingers crossed for Glenridge which seems like our first choice)

altho now she has a classmate who humps everything... which is more comical than anything but it's just like WTF this kid is literally humping something every couple of minutes. the floor, the furniture, toys, other children (latter doesn't always go over so well). Future porn star?

Oh man, long story but I ended up briefly reunited with a long lost sister about 12 years ago and during the reunion I met my niece who was about 4 and who constantly humped everything, just frottering away while we're having this estranged family reunion, and it made an already awkward situation almost unbearable. I would say it is just a normal thing some kids do, but I there was nothing normal about any of that.

I think this kid is around 2 yo

wow, it's tough when kids that young are doing it. the best thing to say is "that's something you do when you're by yourself, like going potty" but a kid that young prolly doesn't have the greatest grip on public vs private behavior. he might still be going in his pants.

^ and obv the parents should be the one delivering the privacy message

shakey don't be all like 'get a room you freak!'

I really hesitate to mention it, but isn't that sort of hypersexual behavior in toddlers a warning sign of sexual abuse?

I have heard that and I was concerned it might be the case w/ my niece (for other reasons, too, but like I said: long story). But it could also just be a kid who hasn't gotten the hang of socially acceptable behavior or just has a discomfiting self-soothing method.

shakey don't be all like 'get a room you freak!'

lol I've only seen this kid in action once, I'm not working at the co-op so no worries

But it could also just be a kid who hasn't gotten the hang of socially acceptable behavior or just has a discomfiting self-soothing method.

I think this is more what's going on. Both of his parents appear flummoxed/surprised by the behavior and like I said he is only 2yo, abuse would be a pretty extreme scenario/explanation...? It seems more likely that he just has no boundaries and discovered this thing that feels awesome and hasn't gotten a handle on it yet. but hey, that's what socialization is all about, right?

in the meantime it is kind of hilarious

also yeah pretty sure this kid's still in diapers

Alright folks. So, as noted on the redneck thread, the extremely troubled kid-next-door (I'll call him Chase) comes over to my house every day seeking to escape from whatever hell is going on over there. He and my son play together. It's about a 50% mix of them playing together nicely, as little kids do, and 50% of Chase acting up. The acting up is pretty extreme.

When he's in a bad mood, Chase often complains that he is "so bored" and that we are "so boring" and that whatever it is that we happen to say we like doing "sucks." My wife and I both believe that he is pretty jealous of our life. When he comes over to our house, there are toys to play with and attentive parents. From what we've learned about his house, his older brother sits around playing Halo or watching horror movies. The place is a complete dump (as witnessed from the outside - god knows what it's like on the inside). He wore the same shoes from March through August and frequently wore the same socks for days on end. His dad has been arrested on drug-related charges in the past and the word around the neighborhood is that he's into PCP. I don't credit rumor mills for much, but maybe they know something.

We don't see his dad much, but one of the few times we've seen him and his son together, his son had hurt himself playing in our yard. Chase had whacked his head on the gate to our backyard and was actually bleeding from the head. His father hollered at him for running and flicked him in the head - hard.

So Chase comes over, sometimes plays superheroes with my son, sometimes cusses us all out and vows that he'll never come over here again, only to return the next day when school lets out. My wife and I are completely sick of it. We feel that he is a bad influence on our son and I can tell that keeping him in the environment is having an impact on my son, who is acting up. Just a little bit more than usual, but it's pretty easy for me to see where it's coming from. I want my son to play with someone else.

On the other hand, we feel really bad for this child. He's a fucking child for god's sake. A little kid who comes from a shitty world and probably lives a shittier life than we know. At the beginning of the summer, my wife and I thought we might be able to make a difference in this kids life by modeling constructive behavior for him. It hasn't been working and it's taking a lot out of us.

Any thoughts, ilxors?

Like, talking to the dad about the kids behavior is out of the question. He'll probably just holler at him or beat him for it or something. Do you know how to work with extremely troubled youth? Are there good agencies or nonprofits out there I could contact about this kid? I don't even know what I'm looking for, really.

Umm... can I be blunt and suggest you call child protective services? If you were a teacher or doctor this would be a Mandatory Reporting issue –- i suggest you protect yourself, your son, and "Chase" by leaving the decision to professionals.

Seriously... call your state's agency and tell them exactly what you told us here: you are (almost) legally obligated to do so.

I'd tell him he's not allowed to come over anymore until he can keep a civil tongue in his head. You can raise your own kid, but you can't raise your neighbors' kids.

I also think you should have a man-to-man talk with your son, walking a fine line between a peers and father-son. "I'm worried about that kid, but more than that, I'm worried about the acting out he's teaching you. It's not okay. Just because we're not disciplining Chase, it's still not okay, because it's not our job to discipline Chase. But it is our job to discipline you, and if you do stuff because you see him doing it and getting away with it, you're going to find out who's in charge. I love you and I don't want you to turn into the kind of kid who insults and cusses out adults. Now let's watch baseball."

WmC, we have been upfront across the board with our kid about what's expected from him, etc. etc. The problem with the part of can't raise your neighbors' kids is that my wife was in part raised by her neighbors while her parents were dealing with serious drug-and-alcohol problems, so she feels serious empathy with this kid's plight.

Remy, I'll look into that. I had been thinking about it, but to me the idea of it seems like it's completely overblown or they wouldn't be able to do anything anyway.

risk to your own kid vs. benefit to the neighbor kid -- your call, obv.

Oh yeah, no doubt. It's just that there are conflicted emotions. Plus my kid likes to play with him when he's not being an absolute terror.

so many xps

i had a big old post written out but remy and wmc kinda covered it. i also lost it when i hit reload, so

the only thing i would add is: since you are not a mandatory reporter (by law), at least educate yrself on signs/symptoms of child abuse, be it psychological physical etc. most ppl are reluctant (for various good and bad reasons) to blow the whistle on suspected child abuse. talking about why that's the case would be a whole other thread, probably. but: the more you know about what constitutes Real Deal abuse* will likely be empowering if/when you need to act to save this kid from whatever he's dealing with at home.

* this is an ugly binary, and ignores the subtle horrors of trauma, but i'm deploying a "know it when you see it" construction because it's expedient

word, gbx. I will take that advice. Thank you.

also, your wife's take on the issue is important, esp w/r/t a community's reluctance to investigate/report/act against domestic violence. neighbors/relatives/whoever can be valuable and necessary caregivers/raisers of children, but nowadays i feel like it gets weird, legally, and quickly. this isn't growing pains, you know, leo isn't moving in. at a societal level, a certain distance is maintained and agencies like CPS bridge the gap. just knowing where/when that gap should be recognized is the tricky part for parents, is the thing. i'm sure you will figure it out, tho

lol, this kid will never in his life be mistaken for leonardo dicaprio. hoooooooly shit.

have you laid down house rules for this neighbour-kid? like wmc says, maybe tell him 'this is how we do it here, you're a cool kid and we like having you around but you have to choose between following our rules or staying at home'.

how old's this kid?

The kid knows how we do things around here. And about 50% of the time, he behaves. If he misbehaves, we send him home, but we usually try to talk things out first. Sometimes he'll open up a little and it turns out that he got in trouble at school. He has framed it as "other kids were picking on me, so I hit them" which is a believable enough story, but based on how I've seen him act with my kid, Chase is usually the instigator.

k3vin k: both kids are six.

I'm totally going to follow through on gbx's advice and educate myself more about the signs of abuse to see if I should call CPS.

Thanks dudes.

kkvgz update?

UGH, so since then, things got pretty hectic around my house. As I've noted elsewhere, our baby daughter was born Oct. 9 and she had to go back to the hospital a couple of times due to illness. So while she and mommy were in the hospital, I didn't let the kid come over because I mean, hell, my son and I were both extremely stressed out and I just couldn't deal.

Early last week, now that everything has settled down a little better in our family life, we noticed that not only was the neighbor kid not coming around, he wasn't out playing in the street at all, which was his usual habitat. So we're a little worried about him, but we think that custody may have somehow switched to his mother. She has her problems, but we like her better and so does the kid. It's sort of on my wife to check around with the neighbors to see if they've heard anything*, but she's been busy with the baby. One of the neighbors had mentioned that they were going to call social services, so maybe that's it. We really need to follow up with some people, is what it boils down to.

*neither of us feel comfortable approaching the father's house.

The kid had broken his arm very badly in a fight with another kid on Halloween. He had been staying with his mother while he was out of school. He came over for a few hours yesterday and played with my kid. Both of them played together pretty well. Just gonna have to see how things go and be observant.

Just by way of bringing this chapter of the story to a close. xposted from the prison thread.

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OK, should xpost this to the hillbilly thread - there are cops at my neighbor's house right now! I might know someone in prison before too long! : )

― rake rock reggae (kkvgz), Monday, December 20, 2010 3:15 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark

The cops were there because he died. I don't have any other details, except that his son who lived with him in those crummy conditions gets to go live with his mom now, which he desperately wanted.

― rake rock reggae (kkvgz), Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:04 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

:-/

yeah mega-bummer

aaaaaand to close out the story that started this thread: the teacher who presided over my child's beating had her last day today. she is 4 mos pregnant and is leaving to take time off and pursue her master's/get properly accredited and the whole process of her leaving has made it ABUNDANTLY clear what an incompetent prima donna she is (complaining that the term "discipline" should have no place in the co-op's rules and regulations, demanding that she be able to tell parents, individually and personally, when she was leaving rather than let the board handle it, e-mailing parents about how unlikely it is that the co-cop will be able to find a replacement with her "experience" etc.) just ridiculous behavior, the woman does not know how to leave a job. my wife really had to bite her tongue through the whole process.

Wow.

haha maybe not the first ILP thread you should have clicked on...

Hah well I'd followed this earlier. I will say one of the things I am not looking forward to is dealing with a wider assortment of mentally ill people in San Francisco.

jesus christ can you imagine what her kid is gonna be like?!

is it just me who was all 'yay!' when they read kkvgz's asshole neighbor died???

You would be joining my wife. : ) I was certainly repulsed by and lived in fear of the guy. We had an alarm installed after one incident with him. We seriously considered buying a gun for home-defense.

But like in many, if not most, abusive relationships, he wasn't 100% always an asshole to his kid. So the memories of him hollering at the boy and the squalid and dangerous conditions the poor kid had to live in are offset a little by memories of the man fixing up the old dune buggy he kept in his yard and taking the little boy out for ice-cream this summer. It's a balance. I imagine the kid's memories of his dad will be bittersweet and Christmas might be a more difficult time of year to deal with now.

It's all I can do to hope that the boy's life gets better from here. I don't know how much better it will get, but I'm pretty sure it will.

(all of which as a way of saying that I'm not exactly all "yay", but more just like cautiously optimistic)

why wasnt he living with his mom in the first place?