"Beyond the Corner": New Miles Davis Box Set

Please, both of you, do not bother.

I'm finding that Matos' characterization of disc 4 as "something to stretch out on" is half true -- the first 32-minute track is still pretty hot, but "He Loved Him Madly" is 32 minutes of just niiiice. Not melodic, oh no, never that, but niiiice. Then "Maiysha" at the start of disc 5 eases you back in, before it all goes wonderfully pear-shaped again.

This is offtopic, but, "pear-shaped" is an idiom I've read on ilx a bit that I don't really understand. Could you take a stab at explaining what you mean by it?

listening now. only on disc 1 so far. my local store had a 20% off sale and this was sitting there beckoning alluringly. I had only come in to get the new Robert Wyatt but I am probably never going to see this for $96 again. hell yeah the sax on "Rated X" is rockin me.

"pear-shaped" is an idiom I've read on ilx a bit that I don't really understand

Britishers use it to mean "not right," and usually "very wrong," like... I dunno... the plan in The Italian Job. But it's an evocative phrase by itself, I think. Not round, not perfect, a bit... pear-shaped. Just a little off. Doesn't have to be a bad thing.

I've heard it on Doctor Who and never known what the hell it meant. Thanks dude.

further comments on disc 1...

wow that wasn't Rated X but I swear it was similar. Wasn't there an extended single CD of OTC that had some of these longer pieces like the "Helen Butte/Mr Freedom X" unedited master?

cranking this right now. geez louise, some of this stuff is INTENSE.

And some of this stuff MEANDERS.

I guess that's what I paid for.

I dunno, I don't hear it as meandering...certainly it meanders a fuck of a lot less than parts of The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions ("Guinivere" fucking defines interminable).

cranking this right now. geez louise, some of this stuff is INTENSE.

― tylerw, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:43 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And some of this stuff MEANDERS.

― tylerw, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:48 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this

Given that this period of Miles is probably top 2 or 3 all time in terms of importance to my own development as a musician and listener, I'm not entirely sure how I never bought this.

maybe because it's crazy expensive?
anyway, yeah, i love hearing the uncut jams from the various bands from this era. but in the end, i think it makes me appreciate the albums even more. teo macero and miles were really onto something incredible when they constructed the LPs.

Ordered this used for $85 just a coupla weeks ago, looking forward to seeing it in the mailbox anyday now (except it probably won't fit)!

Where do people come out on Teo Macero?Listening to this box on Spotify, I'm struck by how little editing there actually seems to have been on On the Corner. Listening to the "unedited master" of the title cut, you're almost ten minutes in before you hear something different from the edited master (McLaughlin soloing, organ noodling, Miles with the quiet introduction when the band brings it down a bit). As a college student when I first heard this stuff, I had been under the impression that Teo was splicing whole rhythm sections under solos from different tracks. What seems to be revealed here is that far more of the magic happened live in the studio (or at an overdub session) -- certainly compared to Bitches Brew anyway, where Teo was looping whole phrases to create melodies and the like.

I'd be interested to see Bob Belden's "tribute" to Teo Macero in the box. Given how disparaging Bill Laswell has been about Teo's work, and Macero's displeasure with these "complete sessions" boxes being released at all, it makes me wonder if Belden's essay was a substantive rebuttal or more a matter of politics.

Didn't know Laswell was disparaging about Teo's work!

Where do people come out on Teo Macero?Listening to this box on Spotify, I'm struck by how little editing there actually seems to have been on On the Corner. Listening to the "unedited master" of the title cut, you're almost ten minutes in before you hear something different from the edited master

huh? there's an edit right at the beginning. The album version actually starts at about 0:47 of the unedited master, but it's an alternate mix with the solo turned down. you can hear the bleed faintly in the background. Then at about 0:32 on the album version you can hear the edit where it goes back to what's actually the beginning of the unedited master (about 3 secs in to be precise).

http://open.spotify.com/album/4ORrWT9p5FH1jhTCATKEcj

huh? there's an edit right at the beginning. The album version actually starts at about 0:47 of the unedited master, but it's an alternate mix with the solo turned down. you can hear the bleed faintly in the background. Then at about 0:32 on the album version you can hear the edit where it goes back to what's actually the beginning of the unedited master (about 3 secs in to be precise).

Correct you are. The groove seems to obscure them a bit. I'm still stunned when I look at Bob Belden's explanations of the edits to "Pharaoh's Dance" -- in some ways, I was disappointed by that box, because I'd have loved to have heard the actual working tapes of those tracks, which I suspect may not have sounded much like the final product at all.

Also, on the Bitches Brew box, they used a digital remix instead of the original analog masters. This means that they re-created every edit. I haven't noticed any differences myself, but there are those that swear some of the edits are a hair off -- or missing altogether.

I never even heard the edits on pharaoh's dance before I knew they were there but it's funny how clumsy some of them are.

funny in the sense that it's interesting how easy edits are to overlook if you're not listening for them

Yeah, totally. I never realized how many edits I missed in In A Silent Way until I heard the unedited takes on the box.

Yeah, "Shhh/Peaceful" was basically looped from a handful of material culled from a 19-minute track and overdubbed from what I can tell.

"Pharaoh's Dance" on the box is missing loops and so forth. I'm not entirely sure how you assemble a box of that magnitude and miss stuff like that.

I would just love to hear what the Bitches Brew stuff would've sounded like had they done a Jack Johnson-esque box with the working tapes. Obviously it wouldn't have been nearly as listenable -- but far more educational.

Listening to the unedited "Shhh/Peaceful," I was floored when that organ chord happened: it's only there for a couple of seconds near the end, but Macero was brilliant/astute enough to hear it as the perfect starting point.

It's baffling why they didn't use the original mix for the BB box; even the 40th Anniversary edition has the digital remix on the CDs (but the original mix on the LPs). I have no idea what their logic/justification for that was.

Obvious guess would be that either the master tapes were missing or damaged.

I wondered about that too, especially there were no such issues (iirc) with any of Miles' other (and older) records/reissues.

But this piece by Paul Tingen more-or-less answers the question(s).

(although it sounds like Sony insisted on a remix and "oh, the tapes are no good" was a convenient -- and not easily verifiable -- justification)

Re-reading passages from the Tingen book now (good book, btw) I love how Paul Buckmaster came in with all these über-"heavy" charts to create some Stockhausen/Sly Stone hybrid only to be in the middle of describing the drum fills he'd composed for the band when Miles cut him off and was like, "Yeah, play that" -- blowing off the rest of Buckmaster's charts and leaving the final groove on "On the Corner" almost comically unfunky.

I still find most of Teo's edits on this one kind of unnecessary btw.

Miles, like Teo, was an incredible genius at editing. "Shhh/Peaceful," in its unedited form, prominently features Josef Zawinul's theme, but Miles and/or Teo knew exactly what to leave on the cutting room floor. I think part of Miles' genius, cruel though it might have been at times, was to say, "That thing you labored on for hours/days/weeks/months? Yeah, we don't need that."

And with On The Corner, I think Teo did some brilliant work. I don't think his edits are unnecessary; I think they add focus and cohesion.

live albums from this era are great, so all of the editing is technically unnecessary, right? It's not like Macero's editing was saving recordings that were otherwise unlistenable in their raw state. He just added that 10% extra structure that makes things a little more interesting. And the opening of On the Corner is a great example of that because the album version begins in a much more exciting way than the unedited track. It's funny because the supposedly unedited track actually sounds like you're dropping into the middle of something that's already in progress while the edited version sounds like a proper beginning.

I guess I would agree with that. The editing is generally just a lot more subtle on OTC than on Bitches Brew, where whole compositions are rendered from the end of Teo's razor blade. Generally, tho, OTC doesn't really "function" like a composition the same way even BB's cuts did. There are very few variations, the dynamics are considerably reduced and the melody is, "Black Satin" notwithstanding, pretty much nonexistent. As a result, I just feel like Teo's edits tighten it up more than "re-compose" the thing.

Does anyone else think "Bitches Brew" is a thirty-minute "Spinnin' Wheel" variation, btw?

the blood sweat and tears song?

Yup

Was flipping through John Szwed's (highly recommended) Miles bio last night, and it says that Miles was indeed consciously riffing on "Spinning Wheel" (as well as one of Betty Davis' demos). So I guess that song's existence is finally justified.

< pats self on back>

(actually, I figure I must've heard that info somewhere before)

oh yeah, I hear it now. interesting.

It might be the best thing ever made (the box).

― Andy K, Wednesday, September 5, 2007 11:20 AM (fourteen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

OTMMM

"One and One (Unedited Master)" = peak music. It's hard to believe they had that in the can and it didn't make the original album. And "Mr. Foster" is maybe the single most beautiful electric Miles recording...except for this one, recorded at the same 1975 session as "Minnie" and unacceptably left off the box because Miles doesn't play on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZobpwLTTow

I want that box so bad, but I'm not willing to pay $400+ for it. They've got the Bitches Brew, IASW and Jack Johnson boxes for sale on his official site but sadly not this one.

I paid $200 for my copy in 2016, which felt slightly insane at the time but which I don't regret at all. $400+ is beyond the pale though. I almost grabbed another one when it briefly became available again at list price a couple years ago, but it was either gonna sit on my shelf gathering dust or be predatorily flipped for profit, neither of which would have felt great.

Yeah, I missed that window when it became available again. I placed an order, but it got canceled, annoyingly. Guess the oversold that box. Fingers crossed it comes up again.

Agreed that the On the Corner set is one of the best ones in the series (In a Silent Way the perennial favorite, of course).

This outtake is stunning, J. Never heard it before. Have always thought Miles the balladeer was as alive and potent as ever in the fusion era, just not as prolific. Seems he was leaning on the organ a bit in this one, so even if he's not playing trumpet, I can't help but think there's still that undeniable haunting Miles quality to it.